ep20 – Ginger Boyle

headcases

I’m excited to chat with my next guest Ginger Boyle, a Lifetime Achievement winner and Hall of Heroes award winner.

• Ginger shares how she lived off the grid for a year waiting for her cosmetology license
• She took a chance and moved across the country to work for Horst
• How sometimes on the road for hair shows, they would have to recruit “models” in the mall or bar
• How Ginger created a daily online affirmation for thousands of people

Complete Show Notes

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes? We love and admire and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years. And I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success.

I’ll tell you in our industry, sometimes it’s hard to find inner peace. And this lady has figured out how to get not only that, but to get work life balance at the same time, and she’s got it figured out. And all I gotta say is give me some of that. So I’m really excited about this week’s guest. She’s been the lifetime award winner, a lifetime Lifetime Achievement Award winner, and she has been awarded into the hall of heroes. She is from Planet salon on Melrose Avenue. So I’d like to welcome on Ginger Boyle. Ginger, it is an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on board here. I’ll tell you, we just for those people listening and watching ginger and I often see one another passing in the hallways, etc. But we’ve never really had a chance to really sit down one on one with just the two of us. And just have a conversation get to know one another. So Ginger, I’m I’m just super I, you know, I am a fan. I’ve been a fan for years. And so welcome to head cases. It’s great to have you on board here.

Ginger Boyle 1:36
Oh, it’s my pleasure. I love it. Because you’re right. I’ve known you I’ve watched your work also. And you know, it’s funny when you know, I see you and we haven’t stopped. But now we will have to and we’ll probably have to share a bottle of good red wine.

Chris Baran 1:53
Absolutely. You know in No, and it’s at least is a little known fact about me is that I’m quite a you know, how would you say it? I don’t know if it’s that because we’re artists, we do what we do. We’re always somewhat insecure. But I always have this feeling I’m gonna go up to Sasquatch and try doing a new go. Who you tell you a funny story. I’ll tell you a funny story I was. I remember being you know how when they spot you at a at a class and they walk up to you. And they come up to you and you go, Oh my god, oh my God, and they recognize you and they start to talk to you. I had just one person come up to me. And you could tell they they spotted me. And they came up to me and they went Oh, and then when your your and they were I let them hang for a little bit. And then they went you’re? And I thought I’d rescue. Let him rescue them when I said Chris bear and they went No. Yeah. So see, even when I’m recognized, I’m not recognized.

Ginger Boyle 2:54
That’s a good one. That’s perfect. Yeah.

Chris Baran 2:57
So before we get I want to talk a little bit about hair and so on where you came from and how that all materialized. But what just first, what, give us a little bit of your background, like where are you from? Where do you where do you go to school? All of that. Where did that come from?

Ginger Boyle 3:13
All right, well, I grew up in a very small town in Wisconsin. So little, little tiny town. And then I always did tell my mother since I was very young. She thought she said to me always do you want to be a model? And I went Nope. I want to make people pretty. And that was something I really thought of, like long ago when I saw Edith Ed hanging out in a magazine, like one of the you know, soap rigs. And she was with two beautiful models, and they were looking at her how great, you know, like with admiration, and I thought, wow, she makes them look good. So that’s cool. You know, because that’ll have a little more longevity than, you know, trying to be 21 and you’re out. You’re too old and have to quit modeling. Yeah, so that’s where I wanted to make people pretty. I was the girl who did you know all the hair for dances or whatever. I was the last one to go. Yeah, proms. So then, right after high school, I went right to Beauty School in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. So just really knew that that was it. And headed right over there. And still, you know, because Wisconsin, you know, not real, you know, fashion forward or anything, didn’t under you know, I didn’t know where I really wanted to go. So I stayed there a couple years, and then moved out west to Denver and I’ve lived up in the mountains for a while. This is something people don’t know about me. I actually couldn’t get my license for just a little bit. So I actually lived up in the mountains off the land for a while really tell us more

Chris Baran 5:05
about what? Because I’m imagining right now that you, you, you have this backpack, and you just we’re walking up this road up this mountain and there’s, there’s this hunting lodge or a shack that’s there and you went into it and tell me about what what was it like? Well tell us about this?

Ginger Boyle 5:24
Well, it was I went out with a boyfriend and he, you know, we we both were in the city in Denver. And it was I didn’t get my license yet. I was waiting for it. So his boss said, why don’t you guys go stay up at my cabin? Oh, and above Denver, which is an evergreen, we got up there. And there was no running water, electricity. But it was so amazing to kind of do that. And we didn’t have a lot of money, of course, you know, but we all start out. No money. And so we’re living off the land. And we actually did it for almost a year, in the cold and everything. Then finally, they they got called and got my license

Chris Baran 6:11
transfers. pause there for a second because I want to I want to go back. Because, you know, I’m sure that the people listening and watching right now are going living off the land. I’m imagining so you’re when you say you’re vegetarian, or you’re going after I’ve got a I’ve got a hunt my food and cook it on a campfire?

Ginger Boyle 6:33
Both. Both, you know, we we actually did have neighbors and we gambled on team. And we would you know, share the beats and you know, the deer and be with and then we would try to do as much as we could like with vegetables in that but up in the high mountains. There’s not a lot. Yeah. So we have bears actually living below us. So it was really interesting. And very humbling. And very, the one of the neatest things I ever did when I went down, finally went down. And we used to go downtown down to a little city and get our, you know, staples, like coffee and potatoes or something. And when we went down, I finally found a job. And the guy. I was at a little craft arts and crafts store. And then he said to me, no ginger, I’ve been watching you, you need to go do hair. There’s a new hairdresser in town. It was in Evergreen Colorado, and I thought, Okay, I’ll go ask her. And I did. And it was she, it wasn’t my cup of tea. Because she was you know, she had just sold her business and she wasn’t really into it. But then I thought, okay, if I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna go into Denver. So then somebody recommended a gentleman and I drove down to Denver in my pickup truck. I had like one pair of pants and two tops and a pair of boots and went down there and he hired me. And it was just, it was kind of a small place. But he was to work for Soto’s.

Chris Baran 8:19
What was his name?

Ginger Boyle 8:20
Terry eagle feather. Oh, my God. You know? Yeah. Yeah, that’s why I work for Harry,

Chris Baran 8:28
I’ll have to tell you this. is first of all, is he still with us?

Ginger Boyle 8:34
I’m not sure he got a hold of me maybe 10,20, 15 years ago. And he wanted me to hire him. And you know, in LA. Yeah. And I was I didn’t feel it would be a good set up but he was in Spokane. At the time, and I just thought, oh, you know, I changed so much. I had a, you know, a certain culture that was like his culture at all, but he did take me on the road. And I could rap a great perm. Oh, you know,

Chris Baran 9:10
go up to Canada with him. Oh, yeah. I’ll bet you that. I can remember and that was a he did all the ABA shows. He got all of the ABA shows across Canada. And it was my first show that I ever did. It was at the Fairmont hot springs inn just outside of Alberta, Calgary, Alberta. And my first show I was there with laurio. Terry eagle feather Schwartz was there with with was Soto’s Martin, part Marty parties. I always said yes, it was. Was there with red KEN I believe at that time. And both of them had a great, great red permutation all the way across the country. They’re all the rooms were packed. And I was in the L’Oreal room first show. Terrified. Absolutely, absolutely terrified. And I won’t go into great detail, but there wasn’t a lot of a lot of people left in my room after that. And always remember Terry Terry, he was often in Saskatoon. That’s was my hometown. And dammit, he was good.

Ginger Boyle 10:28
He was great on stage. He was he really could command an audience. Oh, definitely. And I would be in the back wrapping the perms, you know, yeah. And double wrap and triple wrap. And so I had a big blond afro, because I had to wear what we were talking about. And that and so that was kind of my first in kind of my early intro, and then I took a trip with one of my friends and we went to Montana. And I loved Montana. I just somehow the mountains called me. And so I went there and started a really little salon. There, and I fact, I just went back to kind of revisit, and not too long ago and ran into some of my people I worked with it was really, it was a joy. Yeah, yeah, very special. And then there is where I met. I mean, I’ve been blessed in this industry. I met John Paul Jones to Jorja was the first man to put me on stage. And he put me on stage in Texas. And, you know, this was before Paul Mitchell. So this is we’re talking many, many years ago. And we’ve always I’ve always just had the high admiration. But soon after that, that was when he was working with it. Yeah. You know, and then, soon after that, Horst came out with his line. And somebody told him to drop by my salon. And I just said, Hey, you know, would you ever hire me? And he goes, Yeah, well, you know, I just, I just wanted to be wanted, you know, I didn’t know what he was about or anything. When he called me like, maybe a week later and said, Hey, you come in. And I went, Oh, okay. I thought about it. And I thought, What do I have to lose? Yeah, I followed my heart most of my life. And when I do, it’s usually ends up pretty darn good. Yeah. So then I went down and worked in Minneapolis, which, again, was closer to my, my upbringing, so I could see my parents more often. Everything was kind of good and could learn a lot. And that’s, you know, we’re a lot of my roots, you know, really heavy in the hair industry started.

Chris Baran 12:57
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about I want to go back just for the people listening and watching I, I know that that horse was just had a tremendous impact on our industry. I don’t want to talk about him just in a few minutes. But I want to just go back, because there’s gonna be a lot of fenders a lot of young people that are just starting off, whether they’re students, etc. And I just want to go back and what was it like for you, whatever stage you’re at in there, when you just got out of school, you got the job? And it might have been in the first or second salon. But what was it like attitude wise, mindset wise? What did you feel like when you were in there was an alien was it? Was it? Did you feel intimidated? Was it what was it like for you when you first started? Well,

Ginger Boyle 13:51
intimidated, because you pass you know that you’re paying somebody to train you. And at the end of their your training, you’re kind of doing really well and you’re kind of on top of your game, you know, and so I thought I’m pretty good. So then you go to a salon, and then there was a nobody. And you you don’t you know, you don’t know what to do. And, you know, right out the door, you screwed some colors up. And you’re there all night learning how to correct it by yourself reading a book, you know, because we didn’t have that time. We didn’t have Google. Look it up. So we were quick getting on in our books, trying to figure out what to do. I had quite a few greens that I was trying to not do that weren’t intentional, not intentional, not at that time. Not pretty. And you know, just it was hard. It was very, very a lot of work. But I remember when I had accomplished it, you know once I’d gone through some of the tough parts of like learning how to make that guest happy and taking her from Getting rid of the green tinge and making her or hair better. You really, you really started getting your confidence. Yeah. And nobody can give you that. You kind of have to earn it.

Chris Baran 15:13
Yeah. And it comes, it comes from failing, doesn’t it? It comes from screwing up. And you know what, I think that’s important for any young person that’s listening to this. Watching it now is just to know, it’s, it’s, we always say it’s okay to screw up and we just we say, we mean, don’t do it intentionally. But it’s okay. If you do. It’s not pleasant. It’s not comfortable. It makes you feel terrible. But the real, that’s where the true learning lies. If you can get yourself out of that. That’s where that’s what really, really makes the difference.

Ginger Boyle 15:49
Absolutely. Like when you cut the hair too short. And wait, I wanted to grow it. See what I can do here? Yes, I have this bottle of magic

Chris Baran 16:00
right here. If you apply that. You’ll be surprised how much that will grow in six weeks?

Ginger Boyle 16:06
Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, I made so many mistakes. Starting out, and I know that it was hard for me, but I was determined. And because I did do that. I do believe that’s where I learned because when Horst called me and asked me to come to work for him. I went I left my little salon in Montana, and I went to Minneapolis and he said no, you’re a teacher in my school. And you know, I realized, Chris, I had the best stories from screwing up, you know, for the students like, hey, you know, I mean, don’t get frustrated at five o’clock. If you’re, you know, I’d make them redo their perm rods. If they weren’t good. I throw them all on the floor and say pick them up, start over and they go it’s five. I’m going home. I’m like, nope. But I’m sitting here with you.

Chris Baran 17:01
Yeah, you see, though, that’s what I love is because it’s not like you said do it over again. And then you left. You know, that’s what good coaches do is they won’t say, oh, yeah, check. You got it. You make them do until you get it right. And then but you were with them all the way holding their hands. I love that.

Ginger Boyle 17:18
Yeah, absolutely. You got to do that.

Chris Baran 17:21
So tell me about what was it like working with Horst what was a because obviously got the got him in there? What was what was for those people give us a little bit of his history. So because for the young kids that might not know who he is. Because he’s an industry icon legend, he helped to shape our industry. Amazing man part one of the people have really started sustainability within our, within our industry. Tell us a little bit more about him.

Ginger Boyle 17:49
Well, it working with him would not be for again, the weak at heart. Because he if he did, he would get very angry if the situation or the the room didn’t read, right. And if you took it real personal, you were in trouble, right? So I really learned to get a tough, you know, get tough, and learn not to take everything. So personally. He was very, you know, he was Austria and he was not very always hugging your kissy. He could be very mean. And I had to learn that I wasn’t going to get a lot of praise. But I went there. Because when I decided to take him as my teacher, all I wanted was him to be my mentor. And he loved that about me. So we could develop a lot. Some people went there for other reasons. And they would I mean, I’d watched people go out of there with nervous breakdowns and have trouble because he was not easy to please. And he he commanded and demanded the most professionalism, you know, and it it wasn’t easy. And he did have his he always he did like women a lot he would always say if you want the job done hire a woman. But he did have his favorite like European men. And you know so for a lot of times I was the one in the background doing all the work. I didn’t care it’s you know, but every once in awhile if he didn’t quite treat me right I let him know and, and I was I learned that he needed me enough didn’t wanted me and we became very close very close. I was I became a little bit of a princess then. But but you have to prove yourself they don’t just take you there. You know they have to you know someone like him or JP or any of them and you know, they really want you to earn your keep. Yeah, and then they can depend on you. It’s all about your how you come in in the morning how you stay till night what you do the trust the loyalty, the integrity that you bring with it, how you try to help, like create a culture even in your, in your model room. Like, let’s get people happy, you know, how do you do this. And Horst wasn’t always his mind, he was always creating and doing so much that he loved that he could depend on not sometimes for us to do it. And I mean, we have lots of stories where, you know, Horst would say some things on stage, and we’d all be going, Oh, let’s see. I’m gonna have the white flag out here for the audience. Seriously, there were times? And because he, he would tell them they were full of shit. Oh, yeah, he would say, you know, things like that. And we were all like, really, we, we want this audience and now you’re telling them that, but it was because he was trying to develop a healthy health conscious community. Because what he had gone through in his beginning years was, you know, drinking excessively, staying up doing, you know, the clients in his salon and doing drugs just to keep going. And it almost cost him his life till he actually went to see his Swami. And he finally met a swami and did yoga. And he asked Swami, you know, can I give you a car and Swami goes? Nope, because what I want you to do is make a good product for the hair industry. And at that time, he was in he had done a lot of he, he would do a lot of the big hair with hairspray. Yep, lots of you know, I would call it fatal net now. hairsprays that, you know, were real toxic. And that was just our culture at that time. And you worked long, long hours, you’re around hair color, you’re around bad, bad products. So you know, and then he, that’s when he decided to make the product line. And it was very small. I, when I started with him, it was just I think, a year or two after he started, he only had like, six skews. And we were out on the road. And you know, in a van and just doing these little shows. And you know, you know how it is like, oh, there’s no stage. Well, let’s make one. Yeah. There’s no models. Let’s

Chris Baran 22:38
go to the bar. Yeah, that’s right. We’ll get them. We’ll find them.

Ginger Boyle 22:41
We’ll find them. Yeah, everybody needs their hair done. Yeah. So it was a grand time to be with them. But it definitely wasn’t easy. But boy, do we have stories?

Chris Baran 22:51
Yeah. Yeah, no, I’m with you. It was I you know, it’s one thing I’ll tell you, when when you said about the going out and getting models and doing all those things I can remember, I remember that you’d go to a model call. If there was one, and there was no models there. And then you had to go to the malls. And then you had to do it. For those of you listening just so you know, you had to go there. You’d kind of go there, you’d have to do it. I don’t know if surreptitiously is actually the proper word. But it sounds good. But we would have to go in and you’d have to approach people. But if the mall saw you, they’d kick you out of the mall. Because you weren’t. You weren’t allowed to. Yeah, you weren’t allowed to solicit. So it was that was just pretty wild.

Ginger Boyle 23:34
And sometimes we’d have snow storms and little areas where, you know, there nobody would show up. You know, I remember giving a show to one person. Yeah, yeah. No, that showed but I thought they said what do you want to cancel? I go, I got three models. She’s sitting here. Let’s go. Yeah. You know, when you do it, but you know the thing, Chris, that even speaking on that, what I find out some of the young people they wouldn’t I’ll ask them to bring models so I can see their work. They have trouble finding people. And look at we would just have to. Yeah, you know, and we would have like maybe there’s certain hair color and a certain little bit of a style. So we’d find people that would kind of fit the bill. And you know, you had to learn. I do believe sometimes now it’s hard for those young ones to do it. But in my day, we had to find lots of models.

Chris Baran 24:30
Yeah, well, so how are you? I want to just jump back and when you save the young ones out there are you talking about young ones as as artists, the ones that are doing shows are you talking about like say in your salon per se when they’d have to find a model to do an audition or

Ginger Boyle 24:45
in the Salon. Salon. They sometimes have a little challenge a one year kind of reaching out.

Chris Baran 24:52
Isn’t that isn’t that interesting? That Yeah. A position where you’re going into and you You couldn’t find somebody, a friend, or a somebody that would just you could have just come in, say, I want to cut your hair color your hair that I’m already doing. Yeah. Interesting.

Ginger Boyle 25:12
No, I just find that a little bit. But a lot of this could be because of COVID. Yeah. You know, so, you know, especially out here we suffered, you know, quite a bit. So we weren’t supposed to talk to a lot of people. But you know, I find a lot I’ll ask people to when they’re testing to work with us, let’s say, Can you bring me a couple so I can see your range and your, you know, what you have to share? And they’re like, Oh, I couldn’t find a model. And I’m like, what? I mean, that was something we just no matter what because, yeah, our life was on the line.

Chris Baran 25:46
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting. What What have you noticed? Since COVID? I want to talk about the just not COVID itself. And we all know what happened during COVID. We don’t have to go down that road. But what I find that mindset is such an critical part of our, of our industry is give me like, and just so just let everybody know where you are. Because they serve you know, I don’t know, if anybody doesn’t know where who you are, where you are, they need to find out right now. But where are you? And what was the difference between the culture of not culture, not the right word, the mindset of the hairdresser that pre COVID and post COVID More even though it’s not post, but where we are now, if any?

Ginger Boyle 26:41
Wow, it, you know, will change many of our lives. But I’m my salon is here in Los Angeles, California. And I’m on Melrose Avenue, which is very fun Street and has a lot of great shops, you know, like Tom Ford, and, you know, you can there’s, there’s so many great shops, but during that time, during the pandemic, we were close for one year, eight and a half months. So that was like 30 days. So all my friends on the East Coast, were saying, Hey, Ginger, this, I got a great promotion for your client. I’m like, we don’t have clients. Our governor made us close the door. And he threatened with licensing and closing the doors. And, you know, so my staff was even afraid to go out even to do house calls. They didn’t even They even told their clients No, and they were afraid to even come in until we get a little break. And we would come in and do them up on our we have a little balcony. And it was we had to you know, our touch point was we used to work with assistants, we then didn’t because people only wanted one person, right? Touching, and it’s changed everything. But the great thing is like I ended up really listening to my staff through the times through the rough times. And they really enlightened me a lot. And we made it through and all this strong winds came back. And we were able to restructure, a lot of salons had to close down, you know, because they were there the way they were set up. Now I’m a salon that i i do commission based. And so the people that kind of are attracted to me are ones who like a little bit of a community, you know, community communication, they like connection, they want education. They’re pretty picky about their education, and they want to be you know, they want to they’re, they like to do a great job. So we had to talk through the whole thing. And mostly it was really about hand holding and babysitting. Because everybody felt different. And we had a lot of people come by that, you know, because they couldn’t find a home. But we had to be very careful because we still like for a long time had to be six feet apart. Right? Here you are and I’m in the spring salon and you know, they’re still kind of monitoring us. So it was very, very difficult for this area’s you know, for California I feel like the ones who really truly survived they did a great job. You know, I’m really proud of a lot of the salons and I’m proud watching the stylist come back. But a lot of them did go into just doing things at home and and doing it out of their garage, and then going into studios. But I’m seeing the return of that now. Law got up and went to booth rental Studios, which I’m not opposed to any of it. I like, I like the profession, whatever. However, you got to be happy you got you do that you do you. But I did see a lot more wanting to come back to create a unity because they kind of felt all alone out there. Like at a studio. Yep. situation. Yeah, I

Chris Baran 30:22
hear more and more from from people just saying that they. And I’m just gonna say whether it was the allure, whether it was whatever the draw was my own boss, those kinds of things. To me, as I don’t know about you, but I find I’m more creative, I’m better. When I’m around other people even I can remember being in the salon where we would just say, Hey, I’d say, hey, Laurie, can you come over, I just need to create a bounce on this head, here’s what I’m thinking, give me some input, and then you’d get a creative bounce together. And together, you’d come up with something that neither one could have thought on the neuronal?

Ginger Boyle 31:00
Oh, absolutely, I know that. We all like to think we’re very, very creative. But I am so stimulated by other people, you know, and I love to work with others, and I love seeing what they kind of come up with. And you’re right, I’ll take a spin on it, you know, I’ll take your time and learn a spin when you’re around people. So the allure for me of being in a studio would just, I would probably just say I’m I’m out. It would be too. You know, I the only time I do that is that when I have to work with my husband or something on a on a shoot. And even then I’m like, I’m still schlepping my bags, you know, it’s still. So the you know what the lore of the salon is nice. Just, there’s your shears, there’s your scissors, they’re all there, there’s all the coloring you could want. There, you know, and you really, so that’s nicer for me. But again, it takes you know, all of us need to go where where we fit? Yeah,

Chris Baran 31:58
there’s, that’s the key point you sit, you hit the nail right on the head there. And I want to talk just for a minute about the if you had to, if you could explain in a nutshell the culture that you’re looking for in your organization. So in other words, Chris Baran was said, Hey, can I come and have a job? Well, what would the what would the culture be like? And what would you be asking of the new hire?

Ginger Boyle 32:24
Well, primarily what I, we like to do, I mean, in our heads, and I say we because I do believe many of my decisions are made by the team. And I have learned this year to be pretty flexible. I think one thing I want to be flexible, so I’m very flexible. If Chris Baron says to me, I Ginger, I’d love to come and work with you. But I got I have to have off Saturdays, you know, or something, we can still make that work. So you know, what are you looking at? You want what the you know, your, your what’s the best. And I’m going to tell you what I need. Let’s see if we can compromise. Yeah. And then I really do give a fair amount of time to get the work done. Because now that we’re not double booking and working with a lot of assistants, but the guests like it so much more interest. So we are charging higher. Yes.

Chris Baran 33:23
So I want you to say that one more time,

Ginger Boyle 33:26
we are charging more, because we are you know, just doing a really good job. Like we’re taking the time. We need in we’re not in a hurry. And we’re not we’re really trying to give our guests the very best experience. And so I would just want you to really care about your work. Yesterday, a gentleman was trying out and he was from a very great salon and he was a little bit older, and he had like 15 years experience and I was just watching them. And what I loved is he looked at the hair a couple of times and he started over like a couple times. And I just went okay, I like that he’s really and he was talking, you know, to the model there’s you know, yeah and I so to me that made points in that, that he just went fast and just did it. You know, and so he was really caring and was caring about the outcome. Those things are what I kind of look for more than perfection or, or that you have to be perfect but doing you I love the difference of many people just having their own personality. Yeah, you know, I’ve got some colors that are they’re just beautiful colors. We are we were departmentalized when COVID hit I did let a lot do both. So we’re a little bit of next because that made him happy. Whatever you know, you got to just be a little flexible in these days. You know

Chris Baran 34:55
it you know that? Ginger, that’s what the more I talk to people now and salon owners is that there? You’ve got it, you can’t go in with the rigidity that you had before. You got to come in at nine, you got to be done at five, you know, I find so many salon owners that are just saying, look, here’s, I’ve got this many seats, I have this much time. And if I want somebody to work part time, I’ll let them come in and work from that slot. But how can I fill that chair at another time, just so that I’m still getting maximum value, maximum potential efficiency out of that, out of that thing. And if people want to only work, I’ve talked to people that say, look at if you want to work two to three weeks, um, two to three days out of the week, we can do that. And if you want to do that, I’ll find somebody else that will work those other days.

Ginger Boyle 35:47
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been really very, very flexible. And I really seem to feel that the staff is really happy. You know, that what they really, you know, we were so rigid. At a certain time, you know, coming out of that sassy, ONERA.

Chris Baran 36:04
Chris, and lay by these rules. Yeah.

Ginger Boyle 36:07
Yep. And now, we’re more flexible and little, they seem happier. And it’s something you know, like, finding out each of their personalities. Like, I have one woman who she wants to always go to Cambodia to teach for like a month to two months out of the year. Fine. Yeah. Okay, you do you? Yeah, what a wonderful thing we’ll help you. What can we do? So you listen a little more, being more flexible. And then all those things really came out of COVID, which actually are a little bit nicer than, you know, it makes more of a relaxed atmosphere.

Chris Baran 36:47
Yeah, I love that you’re, you, you know, it shifted, the people shifted. But as a salon owner, you’ve got to shift to, you have to be the leader. So you’ve got to see what you have to see what other people needs and wants are, and fulfill them. And then shift your salon and you’ll survive. That’s the biggest thing.

Ginger Boyle 37:09
It’s not easy to to listen all the time, you know, because we were used to being the leader. Yeah, oh, no, I’m listening. And now I’m, and some of them are knows, you know, some of their advices. I know, because you have to still stay by what you really don’t want. But you know, it isn’t like it’s a hard no anymore, right? It isn’t like it’s a hard No. And you really try to work with them. As long as you trust them, they’ve got a good attitude. And they’re good to the people that are in your you know, in your space. Yeah, that’s what you want, as you just want people to have a good time, bring some joy, you know, cuz we need more joy in our lives and

Chris Baran 37:49
go, and you know, what I think is a part of the culture. That that is what’s drawing some of the people that were in independent situations. And like I said, God bless if that’s what you want to do some. But some of the people are coming back and wanting to be just in that environment, they can be around people they can, they can have the education that they want, they can they’ve got if it’s nothing more than having a laugh with somebody around you. That’s just fellow hairdresser. And you’re just being happy in a group environment. You know, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, always talk about belonging and feel that you’ve got a place that you truly belong to? Yeah,

Ginger Boyle 38:29
I agree. That’s, that’s really good. And I The other key word you said, that always is near and dear to my heart, and I know yours. Education. Yeah. You know, it’s sometimes if you’re not motivated enough on your own, to seek it out and pay for it. That’s where I think that sometimes people need to come back into a group. And so you know, you can with a company or you can with a group, do it collectively. Yeah. And that’s where we can become stronger. Because without education, I mean, I constantly even doing here over 50 years. Feel like, I gotta learn.

Chris Baran 39:10
Yeah, yeah,

Ginger Boyle 39:11
I gotta watch.

Chris Baran 39:13
Yeah, I want I want to get maizing for the day. You know, and I think that what I love about our industry is that I think it’s easy for our industry just because of who we are, whatever that is, those creative people that visual artists, whatever they are, is I find in our industry were at one time when I’m gonna guess you and I trained from that Sassoon era, that everything all of the training was hierarchial you know, it was somebody was above view, and they kind of poo pooed and on everything Oh, no, that’s wrong that you had everything was done by making you feel that what you did was wrong. Whereas that’s not the way you can education runs now. You know, it has to to be inclusive and your mentorships and what who you learn from has to be more horizontal. You know, I can learn from an apprentice, I can pick up things from somebody else. And so that’s where I think it’s so much easier for the exchange.

Ginger Boyle 40:14
Yeah, it’s a new, it’s a new age. But you know, like, as, like, here we are, we’re both here. And it’s still when I go to, you know, many presentations. It’s a nice cross section of younger and the seniors. And, of course, you know, I’ll gravitate towards the seniors thinking, they’ll get me, they’ll understand me, but I do really, truly respect some of the young ones are, they’ve got a lot to bring to the table. With that fresh frame of mind. Yeah, you’re gonna and I do enjoy them. Also,

Chris Baran 40:47
ya know, I’m with you. And I want to talk just a little bit about your salon. Because, you know, in doing just a little bit of research, I was I looked at some articles that were done in Lee and just a minute, I want to bring up the exterior of your business. And I want to talk just a little bit about about the where this and how this happened because I just went that is just blew my mind when I saw this is the actually the outside of your salon, tell us the story behind how this happened and, and how that’s evolved?

Ginger Boyle 41:25
Well, it’s, this is really fun. I moved over to Melrose. And it’s a great location. And so I you know, you want to change everything right away, but you don’t have a lot of revenue. And so this young gentleman comes walking in and he said to me, can I do do? Can I paint on the side of your, your wall? Because it’s such a good vision. I mean, you what you drive down Melrose and it’s very visual. It’s on every graffiti tour, you know? So I said, Well, I you know, here’s my head thinking I can’t afford you. And I don’t know who you are. And what you’re doing is showing showed me what his work was like, and his name is Alec, Alec monopoly. And he showed me his work. But I was thinking, oh my gosh, he’s pretty good. So I didn’t answer him back. And I’m thinking I probably can’t afford it, but maybe when I can. And then all of a sudden he comes in one day and he goes, Okay, ginger, I brought my mother here. I want you to know I’m serious. I want that wall and I will not charge and it and he says but don’t you and I here I am. I’m telling out of school. Don’t tell people that I brought my mother because you know being a graffiti artists, I guess that wasn’t you know, the one of the coolest, but it was so funny. Alec and I became great friends. And he did Goldie first and one morning even I have to say a little thing that was cute, as Goldie was sitting outside and took her picture. No. Yeah, she was she took her picture and was outside and put it on her her sight. But I wanted to do a female just because we were trying to have that salon open and Alec now is very, very successful all over the world. Yeah.

Chris Baran 43:17
Everywhere he goes doesn’t so people don’t recognize them. Yeah,

Ginger Boyle 43:20
he does. Mostly now. And he is so funny. So then people got a little jealous of him. And we’d always get people to try to graffiti over it. And then we changed it to a Marilyn. We had a Maryland up there. And then people were still doing this. And I call him and I said what do you think we can do? He goes listen, I’m gonna be in Puerto Rico for a little while. But he goes, I’m gonna paint Kobe Bryant. Because nobody messes with Kobe. Yeah, in this city. So we now have Kobe and we’re just kind of waiting to see you know how long this will take but he’s come to many of our parties. He’s helped me so much and you know, modern and salon today. Everybody’s just loved coming to look at our, our wall and I’ve even hear from people in like Louisiana. They go, Ginger, here’s our wall. What do you think, you know, and I love that it became something that was youthful and other people were taking on, you know, to paint their own kind of what goes on in their neighborhood and we’re on Melrose so it was really appropriate.

Chris Baran 44:28
Yeah, yeah. So those people don’t know because I know you even got you have the Comedy Store right next door to your place, don’t you?

Ginger Boyle 44:35
Yep, we’re right by the improv.

Chris Baran 44:37
Yeah. So I mean, I just think that’s such a brilliant idea. And when I saw it, I just went, Oh my God, because that would draw people from near and far that everybody would know. Even if they didn’t go Shame on him if they don’t, but even if they don’t go to swamp planet that that they would know what it is and where it is the you I’m gonna go ahead.

Ginger Boyle 45:01
Well another thing about that, when ALEC is painting, we would make kind of a big production out of it. And all the cars out front or stop by to watch are really nice cars created a very, you know, like wealthy kind of influence. So just letting people know that it was one of the best marketing tools I ever had.

Chris Baran 45:29
And it was well we all say was free.

Ginger Boyle 45:32
Yeah. Well, he’s he gets so much publicity too. Yeah, I’m sure. After that, he said that he’s just he really then blossomed, and that was great. Like, we I feel we both kind of helped each other. Yeah. So I give him the wall. Everybody wants my wall. And I go, nope, I have kind of promised it to him whatever he wants to do.

Chris Baran 45:54
In your salon. Now, it’s going to take the switch it back a little bit because I first of all, I absolutely love and adore that. And that’s why I said to Lee, I said, we have to have this on there. And if you if you’re just listening to us right now, I believe that my team always tells me where I can go. Well, they always do tell me where I can go, if you know what I mean. But they also tell me where for there’s pictures where where they can go, Lee Lee is our producer Lee, do you do remember where they should go? If they want to see that picture? We’ll have that up later when it gets posted. Oh, yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. It’ll say well have a sign that will come up on there and it’ll tell you where to go to see the picture. Now I want to go back because I know that

okay. Okay. Okay. Gotcha. Okay, so next, I wouldn’t want to jump into that your salon has you you practice sustainability with and I’ve got this down as recycle renewal and reuse model. Explain a little bit to us about that.

Ginger Boyle 47:20
Well, you know, we’ve, we’ve just, it’s, you know, is our environmental stage of everything. I had partnered with Aveda for so long, it’s very much a part of their process. And even as you know, I look around our industry and I just have great admiration, great admiration for so many companies, you really do want to make sure you know how you’re being sustainable. So, and how you’re recycling things and how you’re taking care of the environment. So because my husband and I, Robert Linden, and I do not have children, but we still have, we still have a lot of people in the universe that we are fond of, and we hope to leave a better place for, you know, and I always feel like I want to leave a better place for our, our profession, because I love it, anything I can do to support it, but also them for our environment. So they have a great place. And they’re conscientious of what they’re doing. You know, because I’ve seen the evolution when we weren’t right. You know, it just we weren’t we didn’t know better. Yeah.

Chris Baran 48:32
Yeah. But we all have to do something about it. Now, that is for us for true whether it’s at home, or whether it’s in the salon, and God bless you for doing that. I, to me, I think that’s so important in the situation of where we are now, whether everybody out there may or may not agree with us, but I think if you if you do agree, then do your part. And if you don’t, well, that’s okay, too. For now. Yeah. As a salon owner, what’s what would you say is the biggest learning experience that you’ve had?

Ginger Boyle 49:06
As a salon owner? Yeah. Let’s see the biggest learning experience that I that Well, right now, I would say a night and I hate to even bring it up again, was COVID I really learned a lot the hard way, trying to shut down and open up and listening to people in their fear, you know, because it’s something the whole world had never been through. That was one of the hardest, but I always feel even though my passion is education. It’s trying to do an educational program that people really want to be a part of. Yeah, and they want to show up all the time. And they want to get into because they all say yes, when you hire them. Yes, I’m there. Oh, that’s my You dream and then all of a sudden it’s like, but I’ve got to show up on Monday. You know, where I have to show up and or stay late or go out looking for models at night or whatever. And you really learn that there’s it’s hard to get that contagiousness and, and grow those grow that. But I guess then we look at, Chris, the real thing is, when I look at probably the top people in our industry, those they were the tough ones that really weren’t that hard. Yeah, they were the toughies. You know, they, they didn’t say no, when you would see him, you know, and like you said, we would see each other at hair shows. I would go round to the rooms, like as we’re finishing up in the prep rooms, and you were watching the ones that still stayed in there long, long hours, you know, to make it perfect. Yeah. And those people I still connect with because whether we’re with different companies didn’t matter. We’re on the same level. We’re first Yep. Yep, we’re hairdressers first.

Chris Baran 51:05
Yeah, and you’re I don’t know if this rub your husband is Robert Linden. And yeah, fantastic photographer. And videographer. And, and so how Now obviously, you’ve got a, you know, sort of a leg up on on the work that you can do for magazine work for the salon work. What would you tell people when it comes to I mean, right now, yes, we’ve got every single Yes, I’m photographing my work. I’ve got my trusty iPhone, and I’m shooting the back of my, my curls on my barley asure, and putting that out there. And while I do make a little bit of fun of it, that is super important. That is your branding for now. That’s what brings people in. But how important do you feel that it is for people to actually properly photograph their work to either have it on a wall getting notoriety for themselves through awards or whatever, just by having your stuff in magazines? Tell us a little bit about that.

Ginger Boyle 52:10
Whoa, I think the best thing and I’m I’m such an avid pitcher, for my staff to enter competitions. I, I feel like even if you don’t win the process is so in amazing that you, you take it through and like in your head, you go I envision this great model doing this, and we see it and then it’s photographed and you’re like, Ooh, you know. And I remember my first work, you know, I was like doing photos photo with Horst. And, you know, I’ll have some funny stories there. But you know, that that was where I kind of really did learn. And then we I was blessed when you’re with a company, they can send it to a magazine, so you can get printed. I always I really appreciate to have my staff just entered a Bellamy just started a extension contest, I was so excited. And one girl, I’m always pushing her for Naha because she loves that, you know, the avant garde part of it and you feel like as an owner, if you can figure out where your staffs leans, kind of push them in that direction. And try to get them to do this because you see in our work printed is something that when I got my first my one of my first pages printed in passion, remember pass. Okay, so I’m going to tell you a little story. So I was going to do my first hair show in New York. And I was with my kind of my boss at a beta John English and we were supposed to set up this whole show for Horst he wasn’t there. And Passion came by the our venue and it was just a bar. And they came by and dropped. They let this Japanese group of people who couldn’t speak any English off and so they were coming into the venue and they were saying that there’s going to be a big, you know, hair show that night. And all of a sudden, John says to me, he’s, he’s working on the stage. He goes, Boyle, Ginger Boyle, come over here get we always used to tease like double oh seven. And all of a sudden all the Japanese tourists, hairdressers, they’re all hairdressers. They all have their passion. And they come running over to me in one of my autograph. I am standing there thinking I’ve died and gone to heaven. So I mean, this was my first thing and passion. I just I made it and I’m thinking how great this is. Now the funny part about this story is sitting at the bar, because it was daytime. What’s Mick Jagger and Keith Richards? No, no, I thought that was kind of my I’m a big Rolling Stones fan. So I’m sitting there going, oh my god, they’re all wondering who the hell I am. Cuz

Chris Baran 55:21
they’re sitting there at the same place, right? You’re getting the autographs.

Ginger Boyle 55:26
I’m getting the autograph. So I laugh about the one time I upstaged. That’s a funny story to me, though,

Chris Baran 55:37
that has to go in the memoirs, I’ll tell you to go in memoirs. Well, I’m wondering, just a couple of things I want to do. This is a segment I always love doing with everybody. And I just call it a rapid fire. Okay, so I’m just gonna throw some stuff out. It can be one two words, you know, quick sentence, whatever. But I just throw them out to you. If you want to answer him great if you don’t just say pass, but Okay, good. What turns you on in the creative process?

Ginger Boyle 56:13
Oh, I love hair cutting.

Chris Baran 56:17
We can be friends. And what’s what stifles it?

Ginger Boyle 56:22
What stifles your creativity? Um, if I Okay, if I don’t go out and get education and I just do regular day to day hair, I need to blow my skirt up every once in a while, like, even get a model in and do some weird color and do some weird cuts. Yeah, for me,

Chris Baran 56:43
too. If you don’t get to do that, that that’s what just draws it out. Yeah, okay, the an event or a show that you loved. First one that comes to mind? I’m sure there are many. But what’s the first one that comes to mind?

Ginger Boyle 56:56
Well, one of the biggest the most one of my best times was Radio City Music Hall. windhorst asked me to do our Vedas anniversary with him. And I got to MC and here I am a little girl from a town of 2000 when you never think you’ll be on a huge stage. Wow. In front of 6000 people. So that was my favorite show.

Chris Baran 57:18
Loved it. Okay, good things in life that you dislike the most.

Ginger Boyle 57:24
Ooh, things that I just like. I don’t like people being late.

Chris Baran 57:28
Mm hmm. What do you love the most? Besides being on time?

Ginger Boyle 57:38
What do I love the most? Well, I truly, truly admire my husband. I love him to the moon and back. He’s does so much for me. And we’ve just got this, you know, great relationship. That works in Yeah, I love probably. Yeah, I would say Robert Linden.

Chris Baran 58:01
Love it. Love it. If you had to sum the most difficult time in your life?

Ginger Boyle 58:08
Well, I you know, I’ve had quite a few setbacks, because we always do. In our right now, when I look back, you know, kind of getting the salon through COVID was one of the most difficult I’ve ever been through. I was ready at the beginning to just say, Hey, I’ve done here. I’m 70 some years old, I’ve done here for 50 years. Close the door. It’s okay, I’ve done my job. But when I talked to people, I realized I had to do you know, there are a lot of young people that didn’t know what to do. And in my journey of leadership, you got to follow it through. I would never do that some staff just block the door and do that. So that was the hardest time. business a lot of

Chris Baran 58:53
people agree with you on that one thing you hate the most about our industry?

Ginger Boyle 58:59
Oh, well. California has too many rules and regulations. We need to get rid of some of them.

Chris Baran 59:06
person you admire the most besides me,

Ginger Boyle 59:11
okay, the person I admire the most in our industry or just in any way anywhere in our industry of course. I have great admiration for Horst you know that because we we did have a good, you know, a good relationship. I would also say though, like, you know, let’s look at John Paul DeJoria I mean, wonderful man. You know, people who create things for others Yeah, yeah, you know, the grassroots of our industry.

Chris Baran 59:40
Okay person you wish you could meet living dead in our industry out of the industry?

Ginger Boyle 59:47
Tina Turner

Chris Baran 59:53
I was gonna say something people don’t know about you, but I think you already told us that one. Okay, I’m just Just want to snap my fingers. You’ve got a month off. Nothing here related where would you go? And what would you do?

Ginger Boyle 1:00:10
Love to go to Hawaii Hana and just kind of hike around and not do much.

Chris Baran 1:00:16
Love it. Is there anything that you’re terrified of?

Ginger Boyle 1:00:23
Yeah. Slowing down.

Chris Baran 1:00:28
Oh,

Ginger Boyle 1:00:31
I having trouble thinking like I should. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:00:35
yeah, the R word is creeping in. But we won’t say the full word. Okay, this is a tough one for some favorite curse word. Buck. Love it. And that you just got it other you didn’t have to think about it. Yeah. favorite comfort food? Pizza, or love it something in the industry? You haven’t done. But want to?

Ginger Boyle 1:01:08
Let’s see. Ooo, I think I’ve done so much. I’m gonna have to pass because I don’t know.

Chris Baran 1:01:17
Okay, good. Well, that when you’ve had that, when you’re at our age, then you probably done most of everything. And we have a saying in Canada about a do over? Do you know what to do over is? Yes. Okay, good. If you had one do over, what would it be?

Ginger Boyle 1:01:32
A do over probably a little bit more research. When I was, you know, starting out? I didn’t know. Yeah, just more research on where I would go. And what I would do. Some of my timing was a little bit off, but not too much. Because I ended up with some really great people. But a do over I would kind of research a little more. There were a couple of salons like I worked at that I thought I shouldn’t be here.

Chris Baran 1:02:01
Yeah, yeah. And it’s okay. Yeah, love it. Well, that’s the end of our rapid fire ones. And thank you Good, good responses. I don’t I couldn’t, I would be remiss if I didn’t talk about this. But the Southwest hairdressing guild, they inducted you into the hall of heroes? And what was that? Like? When? What like, what was the process? Like? What was how did it make you feel, etc?

Ginger Boyle 1:02:32
You know, it’s funny, Chris, because usually, you were, I’m probably not as good at getting praise as people you think. And when I actually was, you know, you’re I’m like, Yeah, I get to get there. And while this is great accolades, and you know, and then there was a lot of challenges, like with lighting and whole place, you know, and you’re like, you get up there to receive it. And you almost don’t know, who to think and what to say, like, so afraid of missing somebody. Because there’s so many people that, you know, none of us got to where we’re at by ourselves. We had teams, we had people, we had lessons, teachers, mentors, and, you know, sometimes it’s just really hard to, at the last minute, you think you have them written down, or you have them and you just forget, yeah, but it was really nice to feel that, you know, you’re being noticed, because as when I started out, there were very few women, as you probably know, were just a couple of us. And like, Jean bra was one, like I can’t even do it’s very few. So we, you know, people say, Oh, ginger, you had you had a lot of good people around you. And I did, but I had to struggle and fight because it wasn’t it wasn’t something common. So, you know, for for women to be up on stage. And, and I, the thing truthfully was, it wasn’t the men who stopped me, the the men in the audience, the hairdressers, were my biggest fans and friends with the women that always, you know, sometimes have trouble giving accolades to others. So I always say I try to empower women and people say, Well, what about the men I go? I love them. I love the men. That’s great. But I always say women we need to empower each other. And also, like, stand up for each other.

Chris Baran 1:04:33
Yeah. Also the you do, you’re big on affirmations? Yes. Tell us a little bit about that. And I understand you have quite a following. That goes along. Yeah.

Ginger Boyle 1:04:48
It started during it actually started during a hard time with a partner. And you know, it was, you know how you you can’t tell talk about things like during, like a sell out or a breakup. So, I really found myself down in the dumps, and I thought, Okay, I’m gonna get up in the morning and, and write down something to build up my day. And that can follow me through the day. And then I thought, Well, I’m just gonna put it on Facebook. So I started writing, you know, like, an affirmation a day from wherever my head was at. And I might find it through something horst told me I might find it through Louise Hay, I might, you know, so many teachers, a lot of Buddhist, you know, affirmations, and some I don’t even remember. So, but I would just started because I didn’t want to go into the day, negatively. Right. And I was realizing, you know, like, we can let thoughts overcome us. But if we start out in a, working on stuff, so I started working on, you know, being grateful, or, you know, giving a little bit more love or some days, it’s not, you know, they’re all over the board, because they’re just what I wake up with, it’s in my head, almost the first thing in the morning, and, ya know, a lot of people following I was gonna quit after I felt I was in a good space, and people go, Oh, no, don’t I follow you every morning? I want to I want that I go. Alright, that’s kind of cool. So I kind of didn’t realize I started it for my benefit. And now I continue it for others.

Chris Baran 1:06:30
Is it is it is that on your Instagram? Where do people

Ginger Boyle 1:06:33
find the Facebook? Ginger 4 Boyle, and it’s ginger, and then a 4 Boyle. And then it’s on Facebook? Every day, every morning, I write something and it’s just continued. And now it’s gotten to be a habit of mine. And it’s a good one. Yeah, it’s healthy, and very healthy. And people always comment, like, I had a trainer back in Minnesota, and I’ve lived out in California 34 years. He wrote me the other day. Thanks for getting me in a good mood. I thought Yep. Well, you helped get me been saved years ago. I love that now we’re still connecting on some level.

Chris Baran 1:07:13
Love it. Just two last questions for you. If you had one wish for our industry, what would it be?

Ginger Boyle 1:07:24
One wish for our industry? Well, like I said, there’s a lot of rules and regulations. And I’m glad we can get together again. Because I really like when we can come together. And I’m just I wish that there would be more people spending time with each other, you know, and really getting together and communication. Because our industry. And I’m kind of guilty of it, too. We work really long, hard days. And the joy of something like what you’re doing the podcast, people can watch and go, Oh, I didn’t even know, I hadn’t ever heard of her or I’ve never heard of you. And they now get an intro and it’s nice. So I love that we’re starting to open up our universe. We’re such a small industry, really. But to get together a little more and more communication. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:08:21
beautiful. And for the people that are watching what watching or listening right now, if based on your experience, if you could get them give some advice of what they should either stop doing, or a habit or thing that they could just let go of? What would that be?

Ginger Boyle 1:08:42
Stop complaining about our clients. Because you know, really, you attract what you need. So what you need to do is like, don’t complain about them, but see how you can make their day. And if you really work on making, you know, anybody in Horst taught me this. There’ll be times you’d be doing a model. And I think why do you pick her? She’s not even cute, and he would make her adorable, and gorgeous. And I think, well, that’s what we’re supposed to be doing. And getting rid of the complaints or getting rid of the judgments. And just go in there and see what’s the best thing we can do. And when we’re excited about doing it, they get excited. And then we can create magic.

Chris Baran 1:09:33
I don’t think that was the best segue I think we’ve ever had. We can create magic Ginger, to our podcasts, you’ve made magic. The magic that you do on hair has always been something that I’ve been so infatuated with. And I’m so glad that that we’re now we’ve had this chat, and I can honestly say now that I have a new friend, ginger. It was thank you so much for being on. And I think we have to do this again at some time.

Ginger Boyle 1:10:08
Oh, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Absolutely. It was a great fun.

Chris Baran 1:10:12
Yeah, thanks again. Bye bye