ep70 – Giovanni Giuntoli

He is a top editorial stylist frequently to be found on set, styling for top magazines like Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Lucky, and Oprah Magazine. He’s a go-to artist at New York Fashion Week and a lead stylist in the bridal business. He’s a Redken International Artist, an entrepreneur, and the creator of Tear Sheets. He’s also a good friend, and it’s been too long since I last spoke to him. Please welcome Giovanni Giuntoli.

• Giovanni slipped into the hair business completely by accident, striking up a conversation with a salon owner while serving him ice cream at Baskin Robbins. It led to a summer job at the salon and then straight on to beauty school.
• Giovanni wanted to share his wealth of editorial and fashion experience. He saw that many talented hairstylists wanted to break into editorial work but had no idea how. He created Tear Sheets to provide them with the education they needed, including how to get hired for fashion shoots.

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes? We love and admire and to ask them how did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success

well Welcome my friends to this week’s head cases. And today’s guest is not only a personal friend, but he’s in my mind one of the most balanced individuals. And when it comes to career, personal, and family life, he is a top editorial stylist, and he can be found on set styling for top consumer magazines such as glamour, Cosmopolitan, Oprah Magazine and Lucky. He’s either shooting ad campaigns and lookbooks or cutting edge designers being the go to artist at New York Fashion Week or a hair lead in the bridal arena. His client lists are, let’s be honest, a little too extensive to list here. But here are some of the some of the designers that he works with. Chris Benz, Buckler Armani Exchange, Michael Kors, Badgley Mischka. Betsey Johnson and Carmen Marc Valvo, not to mention also with Kenneth Poole and the Crystals bridal Fashion Week, he facilitates the sold out class Dressing the Bride at the Redken exchange in New York City and is a Redken international artists. He facilitates classes throughout the world. I love entrepreneurship, and I love his business Tear Sheet, where he and his team trained in the art of editorial styling. So let’s get into this week’s headcase Giovanni Giuntoli. Giovanni, I can’t tell you how excited I was when we finally got you to come on to the program here. Because I think it was it’s been God it’s been so many years since you and I have actually had a chance to you know, rate hoist a glass and shoot some eternal BS in the background together. I wanted to welcome you to headcase it’s great to have you on.

Giovanni Giuntoli 2:13
Thank you, thank you so much. I’m so glad to be able to catch up with you. And, you know, you’re always on my mind as a team member, a mentor, a friend, and I’m really glad that I can connect, share some time.

Chris Baran 2:28
Yeah, no, and I appreciate that my friend because it just so when people listening and watching know what’s going on. Like, we were both part of the same network with a manufacturer and you know, and it’s, you know, you connect with some people, you know, you you make friends with another people with other people, or acquaintances with other people and you make like lifetime friends with other people in that organization. And I have to say that Giovanni has always been one of those lifelong friends. And it’s just like, I have friends that I might not have seen for a long time. But the moment that you connect it always back at that same moment again, so great. It’s great to have you on board. And I just like your, you know, it’s funny of all the stuff that we went through and oldest, my dad always called it lies and stories and telling lies and stories. But of all the time we were on there. I don’t know if I ever knew how you got into hair. Like what you’re got into hair story. How do we tell us give us Oh,

Giovanni Giuntoli 3:25
my God into hair story is really. Some people have heard it, some people have and it was really a tripping fault of, you know, it was all an accident, nothing by design. You know, maybe graner design, but I don’t have any family members into hair. My mother thought that she knew how to cut hair. Because her dad, whom I never met, my grandfather thought that he could cut hair. So he did some barbering for friends. And my mom thought, oh, I can do this too. And in fact, even to today, my brother still is like, I don’t know why you went into hair. I remember you being tormented when mom would cut your hair. But it went Valley went down a path. You know if summer jobs, doing construction, doing landscaping, doing sales and then falling into Baskin Robbins, and that’s where I met the owner of the salon where I started. We spent about 30 minutes picking out flavors. In even just a backtrack, it was just so much kind of I guess, fate that I would meet this gentleman that, you know, when you’re in Baskin Robbins, you take turns helping people. And it was this other person’s time to help this individual. And they chose to not because they wanted to judge the individual who’s coming in. They said, I’m not going to do that. I’m not going to help this guy and I said, I don’t know why we’re passing judgment. We’re only selling ice cream here. So I’m gonna go out We serve some ice cream. And that was the breaking point, the moment in my life of making the connection to somebody you know, really outside my circle, and becoming friends working there in a salon as a summer job, you know, we had to tell all the clients that I was going to be going to beauty school, so they were okay with that, you know, and through that process really grew to love. Being able to connect with people talk to people get paid to do these things, you know, found something enjoyable, you know, it was right up there with serving ice cream, as being an ice cream lover, you know, being able to do hair, and make these connections in the neighborhood and town that I was in and outside of that network. It was just, for me, it was like, electrifying, it was so exciting to be able to go in and meet and connect so many people in so many facets of all these different industries that when I look back, had I chosen one industry or another, I wouldn’t have met this vast amount of people that have come in and out of my life. So going back to your question, getting into the hair industry, into the industry was just really trip fall accident. You know, and then deciding I really liked this and let’s, let’s give it a shot.

Chris Baran 6:28
It’s interesting what you said, Because sort of looking from the outside in, I think there’s always people in our life, that that have some people can influence us and some people can’t. Yeah, you know, and I’m assuming that that other worker is served that person, that opportunity would have been lost, you know, you might I mean, I always feel that you’re going to go into what you’re going to go into, regardless of the opportunity happens, it might be something else, but what I want to jump into is what was it that drew you to that person

Giovanni Giuntoli 7:10
I really think that at that moment, I I didn’t like first of all, I didn’t like this other co worker passing judgment on somebody, for really bookcover kind of things very outside, you know, like, nothing, you can control just BS kind of things. He drove a car that my mom who had been passed for a few years, he drove the car that she loved. And to me it was a little bit of a sign. But it was just I guess the demeanor that when he came in, I thought everybody, everybody deserves ice cream, you know, kind of thing. And I just figured, you know, this is a this is somebody who’s just coming in and I wanted to do the opposite of what the other person was saying. And I just thought, you know, I’m serving ice cream and nothing’s beneath me to help out and I’m there to do a job and serve you know, and that’s what I did you know, without any kind of thoughts. I

Chris Baran 8:26
love what you said there at the end I think that’s the key if more people would catch that is that the key wasn’t about serving ice cream. It was serving you know, and if people if everybody learned how to do more of that just we have humanity on one side and and people in that humanity on the other side and if you can just connect with them by taking them for what they’re worth and so I mean amazing that you did that and I take my my hat that I don’t have on I take off which is rare, which is rare. Rare I’m trying to grow the old should be a bit and it’s driving me crazy. But anyway besides that, I don’t even know if that would fit anymore with all this stuff underneath. Now that we’ve got that kind of get that how you got into here Mike how give me the progression of how to so you got into the hair what happened within that salon there must have been something that was in that salon that made you want to jump in further because let’s face it right now you got Tear Sheet you’re educating all over the world you’re doing hair and editorial editorial work. There’s something that happened in there and I I just wish for my wish for for people to get into our business is if they can just understand what is it that they want to do? And I don’t think you and I knew what we wanted to do somehow led us but we were led in a path. What do you think? Was there any anything into nesting or intricate? I should say that that finally got you from behind the chair on to knowing that you could teach or just do hair and for other people for editorial work?

Giovanni Giuntoli 10:13
Well. So like, that’s like a two part questions. So the first part would really, what got me excited about the industry. Outside of the connection was all the multi facets that are involved in our industry, you know, you can work full time behind a chair, you can educate, you can do editorial work, you can focus on bridal, you can freelance, you can rent a booth. Now, you know, another facet that’s out there, you could travel with celebrities, you get, there was just, it was just one of those industries that for me, was always offering a change, or a challenge to me. And it always kept it fresh. Because what I did notice early in my career was, although I don’t get me wrong, I love being in a salon. I love the schedule and the regimen, I love serving people. And that the basic truth of that. But what I found was, as I was booking my clients, you know, four weeks out five weeks out, to me, there was kind of a mental redundancy, you know, seeing the person again, seeing the person again. So when I had the opportunity to step on a photo shoots, that that like ignited a whole nother flame inside of me to go, wow, what I’m doing in real life and what I see through the cameras, I two different worlds, here’s another world that I can explore, and yet still be in the industry that I love and the foundations of it. So the doing the editorial, I started going in and doing multi manufacturing shows, and started just, you know, I wanted to do classes I wanted to teach I liked being able to give back and give to the industry because I feel like I was one of the negative anomalies, you know, never coming from a hair background. Struggling you know, I didn’t play with dolls, I don’t have a sister, my mom didn’t, you know, my mom thought she did did hair, but she wasn’t around when I got into the industry. So what I learned was really through trial and error, and it was a lot more error than trial and breakthroughs. You know, so I felt that I had something to share for those that were just like me, you know, I’m struggling, or, Hey, I know hair, but I want to do more. And I just felt that I can shed light on to all these other facets that are in our industry that we forget, are really crucial to letting us do what we do in our industry, you know, Fashion Week celebrity, those influences that eventually, back then it would be months now it’s almost pretty much immediate, that there’s that influence from the runway or the September Vogue, you know, and then all of a sudden, it wouldn’t be until January, February that maybe we would see those, those influences in there. And I just love to watch, I just desire to be one of those influencers, you know, being part of the that aspect of doing it. And the other part was, a lot of people said in the industry that you know, you could work in a salon, that that’s the life work in the salon, very few people ever encouraged others to go and do editorial work. I never felt that those doing editorial work. Were ever open to taking anybody under their wing, and opening the door and showing them you know, this is a way into doing editorial work. You know, they’re very protective. And so, I just found that as a challenge. I heard nobody can do it easily. Like nobody can move into New York. That’s that’s impossible. Very few people make it in New York, you’re gonna be a starving artist, do celebrity work. Nobody gets into celebrity work that’s so hard to break into. Nobody gets an agent nobody. And I just kept meeting those challenges and going I can do that. I can do that. You know if other people can I can do it. I’ve made it this far. I’ve grinded through, you know, making mistakes, learning from those crash and burns all of those things but Getting back up and going, I can do it. I’ve made it to New York. Next is finding an agent, got an agent next is landing a cover, landing a booking landing a campaign working with a celebrity traveling with. And so I just kept meeting those things. But those were things that I really loved about the industry is that there’s so much more than just doing hair, there’s so much more to be involved in.

Chris Baran 15:25
There was, first of all, thank you for sharing that as well, because I heard you talk about trial and error. And I seen it now in first of all, you you have way better head for doing editorial work than I do. But I do know, competition work. And I do know, you know, when it comes to try and come up with a trend, it’s different. And that’s where I think that sometimes people in the hair industry itself, tend to look at trend, as opposed to, and I’m making stuff up here. But you talked about trial and error. And I think that the way I pictured in my brain is like, like a triangle. You know, one point you got trial, other end you got error. But then there’s something that you’ve got to get in between there. And I haven’t put the right word in my brain yet. But what the word that always comes to my brain, when I’m thinking about somebody that’s something it’s kind of somebody that’s coming up with something unique, are different. And is taste in one, I think that sometimes people will just I’ve seen hairdressers just try to do something that is just so off the wall for the sake of being different. For the sake of being skewed me unique, that I can’t believe I used air quotes here. I only did for anybody listening. It’s all still, yes, it but it’s also about, you know, are you making the the look that you’re creating? Is it tasteful, because ultimately, that’s the the consumer that’s got to look at this and identify with it. Just to give you an example, and I’m going to try and describe it. You could probably describe it better than I am because it was your work. I saw you do this one look where it was just, uh, this girl had her hair was just all calm down. I mean, just I’ll calm down. I’m sure that you did this in 15 seconds, but the hair was down, it was up across her face. And then I think, I don’t think you were choking her. But I think that it was tied around the bottom. And it was so interesting to look at. Because even at first blush, you I had to look at with her face, what was it and then once you saw that it was her face, and went, Ah, that’s really cool. But it was it’s not like the hair was curled, it wasn’t like it was an extreme off the wall color. It was just that the the uniqueness and the taste that was putting into how do you create something different, that a designer is going to want that is unique, and sets off their work. So just don’t realize we’re just having thoughts of what goes into your brain on that.

Giovanni Giuntoli 18:24
A lot of it is you know, working with the team, and I know what photo you’re talking about. And the photographer was a a woman called tuna shin. And she was always one photographer that pushed, you know, it’s, you know, always open to like, it’s not going to be bad, it’s not going to be ugly. Let’s just see. Let’s try it. You know, and, and evolving with it. You know, you know, photography is smoke and mirrors. You know, I say that in my education, it’s a whole different. It’s a whole different world than the salon because in the salon, I feel it’s so much harder. We have to do a look, that’s 360 You know, we show them the side, we show them the back, we show them the front, you know, we’re in photography, whatever I want you to see is what I’m going to show you, you know, and that’s it, you know, there’s no flipping me or flipping the page and seeing the other side. So it’s very two dimensional and like I said, a lot of smoke and mirrors and lines. But with the team, you know, there’s that team or I don’t feel like in the salon we have some times we don’t have somebody that we’re working with, you know, we don’t we’re not working with the makeup artists. We’re not working with photographer or a model that we’re all coming together and collaborating into finding something that’s cohesive, you know, and I think you brought up a good point, your understanding is vastly greater than mine with the competence Shin hair, you know, I opted to go out of the knot, not even go into really go not even go into the competition hair. Because I found that I understood my weakness, you know, and to me that’s a strength for everybody to understand your weakness, you know, it’s not a weakness, it’s a strength understanding my strength or weakness was competition there. For me, I felt that I was always competing anyways, by working with a team. And I, I didn’t have the I have that avant garde, growing have different hair and the shapes and all of that mine were tending to be more flattering or a little more consumer, maybe not that one look, where she’s getting choked out by her own hair, but not so consumer friendly. But you know, working with that team that kept inspiring you to say, let’s try it. Let’s push it. You know, let’s let’s try something different. You know, and how is this image tying in with the wardrobe and telling the story that we’re trying to tell? Yeah, and

Chris Baran 21:09
so the what? So tell me what I mean, obviously, you you must have worked with many different designers on many different shoots. So tell me a little bit about the pros and the cons. Like, when you’re getting into shooting, you’re shooting hair for the shoot? And what, tell me a little bit about what’s that experience like? Like, if somebody’s saying right now, look, I’ve watched and watched Giovanni for years, I want to do what he does. Because I know you and I want to talk about Tear Sheet in just a short bit. But you helped out you helped train people do that. But it’s there’s got to be, you know, you’ve got to know there’s ups and downs inside editorial shooting. What would you say is that is the best day like we’re shooting an editorial shoot. And this one, you go, Oh, my God, I could? I could, this would be a hang up. I mean, hang up as then I want to start my career. This was the best shoot I’ve ever been on. I could, I could call it quits on this one. So what would that one look like?

Giovanni Giuntoli 22:13
That would look like, as far as the day, like, every I think, as a hairstylist, you know, like, or you feel like you can just touch that hair. And you can do no wrong. You know, you just people are like, Ha, that’s gorgeous. Oh, how did you do it? But then out of every 10 and I share this with people that I can get on a roll where it’s like shoot after shoot or client and Oh, I do perfect. And you’re like, Oh, I got this industry down, Pat. I got it locked down. And then that one model walks in, or that one editor or something? And all of a sudden, you’re like, Why did I get into this industry? What What was it that drew me into this industry again? You know, and even in the salon? Why did she find it? I get up out of bed today? Why did I offer that client that one service again, when I just knew I’m just so bad at it, you know, kind of thing. We have ups and downs of days, our beautiful model beautiful hair healthy, you know, it’s simple hair that is timeless, you know, it can be in color, it can be in black and white, it can work with anything the profile, beautiful, you know, like the perfect client that looks just enough, listens, just enough, goes, What should I buy today? As far as product? You know? That, you know, it’s that it’s that hum, you know, but we have to have, we have to understand our weakness. And we have to have those bad days. Because that way we can appreciate all those great days that we have, because I guarantee I have far, far more great experiences in the industry than bad. Yeah. And some of those Bad’s are really humbling, you know, and I’ve been on those shoots where you just can’t point the finger at just one thing. It just nothing aligned. You know, getting there on time. The model’s hair quality, your brushes, skills, you know, just those things that you just go Wow, that really is not great. And you struggle through it. And I’ve been on shoots where the team wasn’t happy. And so the whole editor just scrapped the whole shoot everything, you know, and immediately you go What did I do wrong? You know, like, oh my god, I was so bad. You know, and you learn from it and you look back and you go, okay, just things weren’t meant to be, you know, and so How do I make it better for the next time, and maybe it wasn’t just me, maybe it was me, you know, but we’re all going to have those days, you know, and, and I’ve learned from a lot of those because majority of my journey, in my career had been uphill battles and challenges because again, nothing for me really came natural. In my eye, my taste my understanding of balance, and symmetry, that was all learned stuff. And within learning, there come mistakes, and they’re common challenges. And so I’m not your average hairstylist. You know, I’ll be real honest with that. I don’t, I don’t geek out on hair. You know, like, I love it for the industry. I love it for what it is. But it’s always been a, it’s always been a Love Challenge kind of thing for me, because I love challenges. And so I don’t mind when that comes my way. But it’s always been a little bit of an uphill battle for me. So when I have great days, I really appreciate them. And when I have bad I go,

Chris Baran 26:13
okay. All right. Yeah. And I think what you hit on was a really good point there is that not every day is like 100% day. So when you have a couple of off days, you just got to, you know, instead of beating yourself up, just sort of move on. And I’m not I’m calling the kettle black here, because I’ll, I’ll make sure that I I always have more blame on anything that didn’t go right then. And on the ones that did go good. But what I loved that you said was that is that some days you’re there. And if you’d know that it’s not there. It’s just not working. Right? I can remember. I think when I was in the Conde Nast building, doing a shoot for some for a magazine, and they and they booked me in and they said we’re shooting for the cover. And I had just done Fashion Week and was one look that we did. And they said, Well, let’s look at we want to do. And so that’s the look and they said it. They said it’s great. Love it. And I’ve got in front of the camera and said and they went Oh, but that it’s a profile shot. And when Yeah. And and they said, Well, there’s a cover, so has to be done from the front. And I said well, they said, Well, can you make the front like bigger? And oh, just being the true rookie at it that I went and I said, Well, that’s gonna make it look silly in the back. So do your point that it doesn’t matter what’s happening in the back, it’s cover shot, the only one one picture, right? So we kind of fudged our way through, they never asked me to do anything ever again. But I think the lesson that I learned along that way is, is that when you when somebody else is there magazine, that designer that whatever, you’re not the owner of the hair, you you’re the messenger, they’re creating a message, you have the skill to do it. And whatever they want to do, you do it. And that’s a new view, you have to, you know, widen your brain, widen your branch to whatever you feel that you need to do. In other words, they say more erring, on the top. No problem. Oh, give me more hair on the top. And, and I think that’s what people have to think about in there. It’s not there. It’s not into the biggest lesson I learned that day wasn’t my shoot. It was their shoot, when I was and that was just the hairdresser that was doing hair that they wanted for that shoot.

Giovanni Giuntoli 28:33
Right? Exactly. And that point, different than yet the same as a salon, you know, you’re there to serve one person, it’s their opinion. Same with on a shoot, you know, everybody’s got an opinion and everybody’s got an aihole You know, yeah, everybody knows what goes into it from you know, but, you know, with a team from a shoot, you’re right, you’re there. And, you know, it’s kind of like putting somebody’s conceptual idea, you know, to real life, you know, and, and telling the story, you know, and listen, I’ve learned because I’ve been on those shoots where I felt that I was doing the hair and the hair is the hair and the makeup is the makeup and the photographer is going to do his photos. And the wardrobe is going to do it. And we have four different aspects of the photoshoot. And then you have the model, which I didn’t understand in the beginning that it was it had to be cohesive. It had to everyone had to be on the same story telling the same story, you know, and having that one book that we all were getting, because I look back and I have my archives from my first photo shoot. And I go back and I look through it sometimes and I go long. way, man, it has been a long way, you know, just wow. You know, what was I doing?

Chris Baran 30:10
I would love to

Giovanni Giuntoli 30:11
see in my hair for they just out of other hair stylists, and they just had me come in, because what happened. But it’s, you’re right it is there to create their story. And everybody in that instance has a boss. And so remembering that they’re my boss, and they have a boss, and they have to submit the idea up and up and up. And hopefully as that journey of that image goes up, everybody keeps liking it and supporting it, you know, and if they don’t, then don’t take it personally. Just go back and change it.

Chris Baran 30:53
That was it’ll be like it you can be like Giovanni and get rehired. Or you can be like Chris Baran, and never get hired by that company again. No, it’s true. It’s a great lesson. I want to take you back now because you’ve you obviously have learned tons over the years. So now you have and I see it you have on your on your shirt is Tear Sheet. Tell us tell us a little bit about because you started Tear Sheet quite a number of years ago. Tell us what’s the what was the mission of Tear Sheet? What Why did you want to start that company?

Giovanni Giuntoli 31:30
Well, here comes some transparency that some people may not want to hear. But for you, Chris, I’ll be as clear as possible. So I was working for another brand. When I moved to New York. And after I’d moved to New York, that brand was bought out by a larger company, and having just a handshake deal with that brand. Once the larger company came in and went really big, corporate kind of thing. So many artists were then displaced and let go and many that I stay in touch with today, and many that we have on our team together, you know, as educators. At that moment, I told myself that I didn’t want to rely on anybody else. You know, just like when I moved to New York, you know, I didn’t want somebody else to help pay for things. I wanted to do it on my own. And no matter how hard it was. And so I found that as I was educating people were really stylists were really interested in how do I break into doing editorial? What is it? What are some aspects about Will you share with me people would go oh, I’ve, I’ve tried to research and nobody will let tell me how to get into it. What’s in it. And so anyways, I I found this trending request about this type of education and getting into doing editorial work and the importance of it, I found that, for me, it was about having my finger on the pulse of fashion and trends versus being a follower. And I just felt that hey, if, if I can do it with very little to no experience, then I know that there’s so many other hairstylists that could and so around that time, there was the magician, I don’t know if you remember the masked magician that was revealing all of these huge tricks, illusions that these other master illusionist were doing, and they were making it, or they’re putting it out to the public on major TV. And some people were really, like, upset about it. And I saw it as what an amazing opportunity to see this, you know, and therefore I go, there’s enough work out there. For everyone. There’s enough editorial celebrities, Rock Band, education. There’s enough work for everybody professionalized to go and do it. And I was, at the point in my career where I was successful, I wasn’t worried about helping somebody, you know, in a workshop of three days, there wasn’t worried about them all of a sudden, like I’m taking my agent away and taking all this work away from me. There was years of honing and practicing and going through, and I just felt that I could help people understand it better. It was the way we were communicating. And then around two to three years after it started, the internet started becoming bigger, you know, people sharing imagery. Now all of a sudden, music isn’t the worldwide language, the internet and imagery imagery is how we’re now communicating. You know, showing some Somebody, this is what I like, or what I don’t like a shade of red shade of blonde, you know, we always talk about educating to the blind, you know, how do we educate somebody who can’t see what we’re showing them, you know, and all of a sudden imagery was the insight that a lot of us were needing to have a better way of communicating with our clients. And what better way to support our industry than to help us communicate with the consumer, who is bringing in a Tear Sheet, you know, who’s bringing in a magazine, or ripped out page and going, make my hair look like this, or make me look like this. And I’ll tell you, before I got into the industry, I would literally take those images and try to recreate that imagery on the person, not understanding that there is absolutely no hands in help that I duplicate that look on that client. And so I just felt that getting into the industry and sharing, doing editorial and bringing in Tear Sheet was something that helped hairstylist, be better hair stylists, you know, and have a simpler and happier, easier journey from consultation, to finish, because they understand the way that the client is communicating through imagery, and how they can deliver it. And then next was me sharing with them that it’s okay to say no, because you have to understand that a lot of the imagery your clients are bringing in again, are smoke and mirrors, the things I’m doing, are lying to the clients to sell something, and then they’re bringing it in and saying make it reality. And it’s like, well, now we have to understand that we’re not going to be able to make it reality, because you’re not only going to see the front of their face, you know, there’s going to be clips, there’s going to be extensions, there’s going to be formed, there’s going to be wind, she’s not always going to be walking into the wind. So there’s an important understanding to share with your client, you know, because I feel like we’re always yessing things even before a client finishes the request. Can you make my hair? Yes, yes, I can do that. You know, and then we go back and we go, what did I just promised that client, you know, how do I do this? What can I do for you know, so I just felt that bringing Tear Sheet into the industry, and bringing the education of editorial work into the industry was something that was needed, you know, light needed to be shed upon it. It wasn’t to take any work away from, you know, the Guido’s of the world and these other amazing hair stylists, it was just to help us as hairstylist understand what goes into those photoshoots you know, the caliber of work. But also what comes out of it is a client that may not understand the hair that they’re looking at and requesting. And us as professionals, we need to understand how to tweak it and make it that client, you know, make it that client’s hairstyle and how it complements them. versus where I was just doing hair to do hair. I needed to learn how to do hair for the client that’s wearing it. Yeah.

Chris Baran 38:19
And I think that’s the there’s things that came to my brain and right in there was you were talking about imagery. And, and I know that I don’t have to go deep into this right now because I know that anybody who’s in here now knows the difference of what it was before. Internet was out there, that the the way they shop for hairdressers was they would go and and they would find out who’s doing what hair. I think I like your hair. So I’ll go and I’ll sit in your chair and see if you can help me. But now what people are doing is they’ll know okay, God did a dude did did my hair. Okay, well, I’m gonna go. I love your hair. I’m gonna go and suss out Gio on the internet. And I’m gonna see the work that he does. And if his work is the work that I like, and I want then I’m much greater chance that I’m gonna go and see Gio, then if I go to, you know, Chris did my hair, and I like your hair. But I go and see what Chris is doing. And Chris is doing work that has absolutely nothing to do with what I like, or want or my case. And so people are shopping for hairdressers now. there and they’re not doing it by coming to your salon. That’s why it’s so important. We understand that the imagery that you’re putting out there is the future of what you’re going to be attracting into your salon. Yeah,

Giovanni Giuntoli 39:41
yeah. The the walk in client is really non existent. I feel anymore unless they’re an older client that doesn’t have social media, which, you know, they we still have people that are not on social media. So Lucky. But people just don’t walk by and say, you know, I’m in the mood for like a $500 Barley ash service. Maybe I’ll go get a big change in my hair. I’ll just walk into this strange salon because it looks nice. You know people are researching, looking at imagery seeing if you like you said it see if you have an understanding or maybe a connection with something they like. You know, that imagery talks a lot about your brand.

Chris Baran 40:29
This episode is sponsored by the salon associate accelerator from trainers playbook.com. Are you struggling with the time and cost of associate training? Do you feel like your salon is running you will get your associates on the floor, all with 90% Less time from you. So you can get back to building your business. Get them world class design, finishing color, and client care skills they’ll use every day for the rest of their career. While you focus on realizing your vision, go to trainers playbook.com and get the salon associate accelerator. And now back to the show. How does what people I mean, let’s face so somebody wants to go? Like let’s say I I’m not necessarily interested in getting into an into editorial. But I would like to have more success in the hair that I’m doing in the salon and publishing on the internet, or having on the walls in the salon. What what what is it like if they wait came to if they came to Tear Sheet? And they took the class? Like what’s the give us kind of the Ron how, what is the typical class go like? And is it always set up? Can I take the stuff that I have? And that I learned there? And is this just editorial stuff? Or is this foundational stuff that I can use elsewhere as well?

Giovanni Giuntoli 42:02
Okay, that’s a great question. Because it’s a question that I think from day one, people always asked, you know, is this something that I don’t want to do editorial work? So would this class be good for me? And the answer is yes. You know, I mean, in our industry, even in the students that have come through the workshop, you know, 5%, maybe 10% of those hair, stylists do editorial work, and majority of them still are 95% in the salon, not living really as a true editorial hairstylist. To learn hair for photos, is really learning how to do hair for your client, because you have an understanding of what went into making that imagery. What what is that team look like being able to have a more professional and better educated conversation coming from a place of professionalism to your client, you know why they’re there? Why they seek you out? Why they’re sitting in your chair? The clients don’t want you to just Yes them all the time, I’m sure percentage are there to just have you Yes, yes, yes, I’ll do it. But I think a lot of clients nowadays especially really understand the value of an educated hairstylist that will tell them no, I cannot do that with your hair, for whatever reason, length, texture, health, whatever it is, but to be able to look at a photo and say, This is a beautiful photo and beautiful hair, your hair is not the same as this. And let me tell you why. Let me explain to you about this imagery and why you’re going to see different qualities and things in your hair than you see in this image, you know, lighting, color, dimension, haircuts, etc. So I say that majority of the students that have come through our workshops, although love having imagery to put up and show on their social media, also, I feel it’s great for their channel to show behind the scenes salon work and then leveling up the work to what our consumers are used to seeing. You know, like I think consumers nowadays as we all can understand the difference between professional quality shoots and maybe iPhone shoots or grabbing some things behind the scenes. So the education is you know, depending on the workshop, you know, we we range from how to capture the image in the salon using your phone working with a non professional model, ranging to working with a professional model, professional makeup and photographer you know, so we have we cover the realm but the basic is Understanding the imagery, the collaboration, the creation of, and then how to recreate and make it reality to the clientele. So, no, you don’t have to move on and go into editorial work, you don’t want to you could work in the salon day in and day out. But adding the imagery and adding that understanding, just again, levels you up in a client’s eye, because that’s another facet under your belt, you know, just like a doctor, you know, they go in, they specialize, they go further and further. Now all of a sudden, you’re like, wow, they have like, you know, six, seven diplomas up here. They’re really well versed, they’ve really dove into this understanding. I’m going to ask them, Well, what do you think, doctor? You know, what do you think, hairstylist, this is what I’ve come with. But according to your social media and all the things that you’ve done on this wall, it looks like you have a broader understanding of what I’m here with, and what to work with, then maybe what I’ve come to just say, This is what I want. Yeah,

Chris Baran 46:01
and I love that. And I, I can’t remember if it was you that said this, but I remember watching it, I think it was you. That was somebody said in this picture, here’s, here’s all the volume in the site, this is the one, this is the amount of volume that I want in my hair. And they said, Well, we can do that. Absolutely. And they said, Oh, good. But he says I want you to understand this is that I have to take all the hair, and I’ve got to take clips, and I have to put them just behind in here. So you’ll, you’ll have a really good look coming from the front. But everybody’s going to see that three dimensionally, it’s going to look like like kaka from behind because that in that photo, they took all the hair from behind. And that’s what gave them the volume on the side. And it’s not natural. So we can do that. But I’m sure that you don’t necessarily want me to do it in that way.

Giovanni Giuntoli 46:57
And that’s why I say, you know, the understanding of that imagery and what went in it makes our life a lot easier. Because I didn’t understand up dues. When I first started in the industry, I literally ran to the back room, quickly walked because I didn’t want to draw attention to myself, walk to the back room, when I would hear somebody was there for special event here and up do a wedding like Please do not do not even look in my direction. And so that was that was a stroke, people would bring in photos and I would try to just shocked on pins in to something that I just saw. No pins and these up dues and I just didn’t understand that. Oh my god, like you’re only seeing again, what somebody wants you to see you are only hearing the story that somebody wants to tell you. You’re not seeing the other side, the dark side of hair, but as a salon hairstylist, I kept trying to make the dark side work. And he liveable and realistic. And in imagery. It’s not you know, so I feel that US hair stylists that are behind the chair. We have a harder harder road ahead of us to please somebody to make it look great. All the way around versus just in one direction. You know, one aspect. I

Chris Baran 48:28
love it. So who were the Where did you get like what Where did you all of a sudden you went right? Don’t don’t throw any of that stuff near me because it’s terrifies me. But now you’re you’re amazing at it. So what was who were the people what was the links what had to happen? That took you from running to the back room tour. totally confident had it now.

Giovanni Giuntoli 48:50
When I was working for the gym, can we mentioned other brands here? When I was working with Wella I moved from Chicago to New York while still working with them. And I had the opportunity to travel to London to work with Patrick Cameron, who is still a friend to this day. And for those of you who know Patrick Cameron and seeing him on stage, it was awe inspiring to me, especially for somebody who was just the complete 182 what he was doing. I was doing magic in the towel room. He was doing magic in the hair. Learning the foundations that he shared with me during these like it was like a week long workshop with him. And it was a small workshop and that was something that I really loved and brought into Tara she was we had no more than 10 people. So we have plenty of real one on one of one to three small ratio education that for somebody like myself I really gravitated to because I needed that help and understanding but on We’re standing at the foundations that he shared with me. Again, he just broke it down. And that’s what I took, like, don’t look at it as a whole look at it as like Legos components, these components, then make up the whole. And if we can understand what the components are that make the hole, then that’s what we’re going to do bite sized pieces, that again, you know, then eventually you eat slice by slice, you eat a whole pizza afterwards, you know, don’t do it’s the same, from blow dry prep, to a foundation, to then building on that, etc, etc. In the beginning, I just figured somebody turned their head upside down, they pumped in some three, four pounds of pins, and put their head up and it was beautiful. No, and that was my struggle, I was working from the outside, in. Whereas what I learned was understanding from the inside, working the way out, and that’s what really turned my corner into going, Wow, I I’m gonna start looking at hair completely different. And it took my editorial then to the next level because I was able to build shapes, versus just working with hair down, you know, and so that was a big, that was a big change for me because it opened up the whole bridal market to me, and black tie and celebrity etc. Because they were going to these events that they wanted half up, half down all up. You know, nobody wanted hair down. And so that that opened up a whole nother a whole nother book of business for me. Yeah,

Chris Baran 51:41
so the, the window that you hit on, it’s coming to my brain right now is being a hair cutter is the I tend to always blow I always blue hair dry. The way that I always blew it dry. And the words that would set aside part doesn’t have a center part is it whatever it has. And then you start at the bottom and you work from the top and it’s all evens down and bla bla bla bla bla beautiful and machine on hair, etc. Now I remember going to the to assisting at a shoe. And Gray, what’s his first name? Oh, Peter, Peter grip, Peter Gray was was there and he was showing us because the hair was going up in ponytails. And so I went oh, blow dry the hair down and push it all back. And he was i He put all this time and energy into blowing the hairdryer off the face. And I can remember being astounded. Because at the end of it, he only took I think, three or four strokes of the brush, putting the hair into his hand and put a ponytail on it. And all the hair was perfect. It was just, you know, it was and I find that as hairdressers we tend to do we have the favorite brush, the flavor, blow dried technique, the favorite iron. And we tend to use those all the time because we’re really good at those. Right? But they’re really good were those things are always really good at one thing. But there’s to get different effects, you’ve got to learn different. And that’s why I would highly suggest that if people want to learn that if you’re out there and you’re listening and watching right now. You need to take take advantage of although maybe taken advantage of you, but take advantage of the class and take that class etc.

Giovanni Giuntoli 53:32
What you said though, with that, again, you were doing hair for the salon for the client. And there’s such simple things that we do for the photo set for the runway, etc. That again, translate an impact our life in the salon. You know, now listen, I’m a licensed hairstylist where a lot of freelancers are not. So they can’t go into the salon and therefore I love that I have that ability to serve clients in the salon as well. And I am always finding that I’m tying in that understanding of hair with like you said, even just blow drying where are we ending up with this hair? But then I’m gonna blow dry the hair to go in that end result versus a pretty download and then try to struggle with pulling it up. You know why

Chris Baran 54:31
the front looks like it’s bad. It’s you had your hands on up on the science sphere. Static ball. Right?

Giovanni Giuntoli 54:37
Yeah, right. And that was my beginning in my career was beautiful down, blow dry and then going. Why are there so many bumps? Why is this party I can’t get rid of it? Well, again, I told the heritage one thing when I really wanted to do another thing.

Chris Baran 54:54
And I would be remiss because before we started, I was asking you about your background And I would. So tell me I’d love you to, for the listeners and the people watching. And just so that if you’re listening, the background that he is on right now is just a really intricate background with I can’t describe everything but imagine or have imagined a, you know, a forest green kind of frame around a picture. And inside it is kind of a maroon. And then it’s got these beige tones in in this amazing pattern on the inside of it. I haven’t done it justice at all. But I just wanted to give you a little bit of, of, of insight into what we’re looking at if you’re listening. Tell me the story behind that. where that came from, and why is that there.

Giovanni Giuntoli 55:49
So this came as a gift to me from a designer that I worked with. And that designer was Gianni Versace. And I was working in New York City, just down the street from where they put their flagship boutique on Fifth Avenue when they were old, I mean, if you’ve been in New York, and you’ve seen it, it is it is just a beautiful store. And the day they opened that door, I walked down the block, and I introduced myself to the manager to the sales people. And I said, I want to work with your team, we have a salon down the block, send your team in because I figured you know the clientele that are going into buy from there as the clientele audience that I want in the salon to come to me as well. You know, they have the price point they liked that designer, they had the they understand the value. And so for I think the first year that they were opened, I was grooming and cutting their male and female staff and became friendly with the manager there. His name was Nunzio the manager there for that. So that salon or that boutique would also traveled the world opening up other locations and was Johnny’s right hand guy during their Christmas party, their Christmas party was not your ordinary Christmas party, you know, it wasn’t a zoom in carpet, it was a red carpet, celebrity driven, you know, it was just their launch and everything was amazing. And I got an invitation, you know, from the manager. And so I got to do client, you know, staffs hair for it, but then got the invitation to dress up and go and sit and meet and talk to Mr. Versace. With the blessing of the manager of saying, you know, this gentleman Giovanni does all of our grooming all of the team’s hair and has been here, and so on, so forth. So had a few moments to sit with Mr. Versace and chat about hair about fashion about just life kind of things. And one or two weeks after the manager had come and said, you’ll come to this boutique, we have something we have a Christmas gift for you. And so I went to the store, and the manager and a few of the head team members had wrapped a package and in that box was this swatch of material that I remember the manager showing me all of these pieces hanging and this one standing out to me and saying wow, this is a really this is a beautiful, you know, material, I love the colors, I love the intensity. And so this is like a swatch of material that they use a big make their big throw pillows, and everything. And it just really stood out to me that you know, again, it came from a place of love and appreciation of what we all do, you know as far as serving the industry and making that connection. And so a good friend of mine had actually framed it for me because I had kept had folded to take care of it. But I never had a place to really show it off. So a friend of mine got it framed and mounted for me and ever since then I’ve been always enjoying seeing it you know and noticing little intricacies that I don’t always didn’t always notice in the beginning but it always was bright enough and cheerful enough and impactful enough to put a put a smile on my face. And

Chris Baran 59:37
I know that thank you for that I just found thought that story was so amazing. When we talked about it I wanted everybody else to hear it as well. And I know probably tonight I’m gonna have a nightmare where the Gianni Versace is going to come and down and be in my dream and talking to me about the displeasure that he has for my with the way I describe his work. Anyway, Giovanni’s time for what I was called a rapid fire. Okay, and so just quick stuff, whatever comes to your brain. In the creative process, what turns you on, in that process,

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:00:16
the ability to have no bounds with the creativity, you know, knowing that we’re there to just be creative, and there are no mistakes and no wrong doings in a process of creativity.

Chris Baran 1:00:33
What stifles

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:00:37
that 30 could be no wrong.

I, it’s a blessing and a curse. I feel like creativity can be like a Chinese menu, you know, so many options, that it’s hard to narrow it down to one. And therefore, you choose the comfort zone. And I always go boy, that comfort zone, I keep choosing it, forcing myself to choose something different in that menu. So sometimes the the wind is all the options and the negative is too many options, right?

Chris Baran 1:01:19
thing, the thing in life that you dislike the most

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:01:23
pessimism, negativity, you know, passing judgment on somebody, you know, I never, I was never attracted to that. And I’ve always liked seeing a different perspective than what a lot of people are, or a lot of a lot of people have, you know, just having a different perspective. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:01:47
And I, my next question, but I think you answered it Ray, what do you love the most is obviously about perspective, most difficult time in your life?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:02:00
Well, I mean, losing a parent is always are we talking life or industry just really mean in both, it’s probably both, you know, for me, it’s, it’s both, you know, my mom was really, really an integral part of my education, you know, she passed when I was going to be turning 15 years old. So she didn’t get a chance to see any of what I’ve been doing or anything like that. And to her last knowledge, when she was alive, you know, I was on the path of going to college, you know, and it was my dad, and changing our relationship that really was crucial in me getting into the industry, him being open to me going into the industry, and super supportive. And so then my second downer was losing my dad. Because at that moment, I felt like I was, I was breaking through having him traveled to some of the events and all of those things. So, you know, losing him after rebuilding that relationship, and the thing was really tough on me. And it’s something that, for me, the good thing that came out of that, and I don’t think I’ve ever had a chance to share it with you, Chris is what’s come out of that is my connection with you. Because of the time that you and I shared in Vegas, when I got that news dropped on me, and you helping me get through that and make some decisions. Different than the decisions that I was prepared to make, like, you know, the show must go on go on stage, you know, don’t speak and you were there to kind of say, maybe not this time around, you know, and so I appreciate that, of course, but those are my two. Those are my two big downers in life. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:03:59
Wow. And what is it that so now what do you what do you tell me what you really like about it? What do you like most about our industry?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:04:08
The facets of the industry? I mean, I love traveling. I love doing hair in every part of the world. You know, and my dad said it best, you know, said she’s, you’re you’re learning a trade. And that was something I struggled with was understanding. I wasn’t going to college. I was going to a trade school and you can do this trade anywhere. There’s hair. Yeah. And for me, that was just wonderful for me because I think traveling is like, like time travel. Going to see different people going to see different places and so all the facets and being able to be exposed and exposing my skill set now others but to see and meet so many people that and still do hair is just for me an amazing, amazing element of our industry that I just, I just love. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:05:14
I think that’s anytime that I talk to people or an industry. That’s the it’s the hook that we have that nobody else understands. And I think you put it really well proudest moment in your life.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:05:27
I feel like I have a proud moment that I move on, and then a proud moment, then I move on. I mean, the proudest moment that I made for myself was when really, I think breaking the 10 year mark in New York City, knowing that I wasn’t starving, you know, I come to New York, with an intention. And through struggles and through winds, stayed on that intention, and didn’t just survive, but thrived. In IT industry and in an industry in a city that people said, were tough to do tough to stay on, etc. You know, proudest moment for me was the success and thriving and doing this,

Chris Baran 1:06:18
the living person, that living person that you admire the most.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:06:29
I think Rodney Cutler might admire a lot, you know, he’s a tangible celebrity hairstylist, you know, in many ways, and we’ve made I mean, I was just on the phone with him yesterday, in fact, a humble artist successful, who gives people his time, and his skill set and gives them opportunities. That again, impacted my industry as well and being able to work at the salon there with him and learn from him and see how, how he reacts and handles certain things and those ways that he’s done things business or personal, or things that I’ve tied into my life as well. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:07:22
Nice to have those people in your life. Something that people don’t know about you. I know one thing that that was shocked the hell out of me when I when this was asked to you when another time but okay, do you want to go first? No, no, no. The question is something that people don’t know about you.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:07:52
You know, I’m, I’m kind of introverted. I like, I like my quiet time. I don’t mind being alone. You know, as much as I love teaching and being exposed and giving and sharing. I like driving long distances without any radio on, or listen to anything. I like my quiet. You know, and I love to camping and outdoors and hiking and doing nature stuff. You know, that solitude? I enjoy. And I feel like a lot of people don’t think that because of all the things that I do. They’re like, No, you must love being in the limelight. Doing and I’m like, I do, but I really love. Nice seeing you.

Chris Baran 1:08:47
I have to set up my sad. I’m right now I’m going to tell it should I tell it should I not. And I remember we were at we were doing a show somewhere or a training somewhere. And I believe it was Blair singer that came in or some other person. I can’t remember who it was exactly. And we had all of our artists that were there taking that training. And they said you had to start off you had to go around the room and introduce yourself and tell everybody something that they didn’t know about you and you and I were sitting across from one another. And I said that I stood up and I said I can turn my feet backwards. And there was a mild applause in the room and everybody went Oh, that’s interesting. I’d like to see that. Then you stood up, and you said I used to be an underwear model. And the hoots and the haulers that came out of the room.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:09:41
Just to be correct in this, I wasn’t just an underwear model. I was an Underoos model. Oh, these underwear in case you didn’t remember had themes to it, or just white themes to it, and I crushed those things. I’m sure you did. But yeah, the underwear model.

Chris Baran 1:10:07
Some of them right here if you want to.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:10:09
I’m so glad that in all the years that I’ve known you and we’ve talked that that’s, that’s something that you remember that stuck.

Chris Baran 1:10:21
With you still, you did shock the hell out of all of us on the one. I don’t think anybody anybody beat. Nobody beat that one things but you didn’t know about. Okay, month off, where would you go? What would you do?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:10:34
I would go to do I know which month or if I had a month or any

Chris Baran 1:10:39
month anyway,

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:10:40
I would travel? Probably I would drill let’s first start in Europe. It started in Italy. And I’d worked my way toward Australia. Nice. And see friends and family and eat and enjoy the different cultures. You know, and maybe even still do hair there. But but but that your that would be I just I just can’t say how much enough of how much I love travel. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:11:13
You’re greatest fear

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:11:23
My greatest fear

I’ll come back to that one.

Chris Baran 1:11:32
Sure. What’s your favorite comfort food?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:11:39
Favorite comfort? Food? Fruits?

Chris Baran 1:11:41
Food.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:11:42

300. I mean, I love pizza. For me, you know, bread, pasta, cheese, it could be in the shape of a pizza. It could be the shape of a I don’t care.

Chris Baran 1:11:56
Favorite curse word? Definitely, this is the art that goes along with it or? Yeah. If you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:12:13
Um That’s a good one. If I could change one element of myself, what would it be? Maybe three more inches of height.

Chris Baran 1:12:26
And there you go. There you go. I’m on the other end where it’s shrinking. So

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:12:35
I want to wait we want right?

Chris Baran 1:12:37
Yeah, gotcha. Well, yeah, well, no, I was thinking the other way. But thank you for everybody watching. Yes.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:12:44
Keeping the perspective, yes, yeah. Whether

Chris Baran 1:12:46
you’re laying down and standing up right. Now listen, before I ask you this last one, if people want to get a hold of you, and they want to know how to how do I get how do I take a class at at Tear Sheet where

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:13:00
they can go to the website, your tear sheets.com, you can go through our Instagram, you know the bio, I have a bio in both tear sheets, Instagram and my own. My personal website, I am rebuilding to be more up to Special Ed bridle. So I’d say for the time being you can go right through the Tear Sheet Instagram bio. That’s

Chris Baran 1:13:24
awesome. That’s awesome. Okay, last question. If you had one wish for industry, what would it be?

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:13:37
The the understanding that in all successes, in any successful thing, there is failure. And there is challenges. You know, I mean, that’s why it’s successful. If it was so easy, everybody would be doing it. You know, this industry is fantastic and lovely and supportive as it is. We need education, we need the understanding that you need to invest in yourself to become better, you know, I don’t want the complacency to happen in our industry. That that that’s a fear of mine is that people are getting complacent and settling on what I know is what I know and I’m happy with it. I think there’s so much more. But I don’t want to see education go away in our industry. I want the understanding to also be that there is going to be a challenge in the industry. You know, I’m working your way up. You know, there’s going to be things to learn things to do challenges, etc. You know, not to shy away from it. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:14:51
and just being comfortable with discomfort. That’s the biggest step. Yep. Yep. Gianni, it was an interesting in that last one. And you not only gave us that, but you gave us your fear as well. So I did. Yeah. So I Giovanni has always, I think you and I have have a real special link in our industry and has friends and I just want to say that it’s just really great to catch up with you again. I can’t thank you enough for being on encases

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:15:20
Thanks, Chris. I really appreciate it. And I appreciate our friendship and I hope to be able to do this in person real soon.

Chris Baran 1:15:27
I hope so to please me more.

Giovanni Giuntoli 1:15:30
Thank you. Thank you, my friend.