ep138 – Ted Gibson & Jason Backe

Show Notes

They are more than just hairdressers–they are two true icons of the industry. They’ve owned prestigious bi-coastal salons. They’ve built careers as celebrity stylists and TV personalities in their own right. They are major beauty brand spokespeople, and they’ve created their own luxury retail lines. 

But what really sets them apart is where their heart is—education. They’ve spent years traveling the world, inspiring and elevating hairdressers everywhere, and we love them for it. They are among the elite, and they are here with us as today’s HeadCases, the incredible Ted Gibson and Jason Backe.

6:55 Ted and Jason’s Hair Journey

18:56 Transition to Celebrity clients

27:24 Opening their own salon

31:02 Shift to Beauty and Wellness

42:24 Introduction of Ascension

50:28 Convergence Convention

https://tedgibson.com

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire, and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. You Hey, here’s a spin on an old ad. Double your pleasure, double your fun. Learn from two amazing people instead of just one. Okay, enough with the corny dad jokes, but welcome to another episode of head cases, these two icons are hairdressers. They’ve owned prestigious bi coastal salons. They’re celebrity stylists, TV personalities, major beauty brand spokespeople. They’ve created luxury retail lines. And you and I know them from where their heart is really at educating hair stylists throughout the world. Many of grace stages, only a few, have turned their names into a brand, and these two are among the elite in our industry. So let’s get into this week’s head case, Ted Gibson and Jason Backe, Ted and Jason, I have to say, I don’t know how many years we have been talking about getting together for doing this, but I am so excited about having you on here. And I have to say congratulations beforehand and everything that you go on, and we’ll be talking more about that later. But welcome to head cases. Thank you, legendary. Yeah, in my mind I’m legendary.

Jason Backe 1:47
I always say, Don’t you know who I think I am?

Chris Baran 1:51
I’m stealing that line. Don’t you know who I think? There you go. You know what. And I have to say, we you know what, I want to throw this. You guys have both had prestigious, amazing salons on in a bike Coastal Way. You’ve, you’ve, you’ve been in New York and had salons. You’ve been in New York. I’ve been in LA and had salons so but now we have common grounds, because you’re now in Palm Springs. I was in Palm Springs this last weekend. We have mutual friends with Suzanne Sturm and Lee Baran. I don’t know if anybody catches the last name Baran in there, Chris Baran, Lee Baran, but the you know, and we’re in the often visiting in the same area you live, I visit. So what’s the what was the shift like to Palm Springs a

Jason Backe 2:43
breath of fresh air. Yeah, it was been amazing. Yeah, we were in LA for six years. First we were in New York City for 20 years, and then we moved to LA, we were there for six years, and it, you know, I’m envious of my friends that love LA, because that never happened for me. It was it never clicked. And now that we’ve been in the desert for two and a half years, it feels like Los Angeles was like a six year layover. And since we’ve been in the desert, we’ve just been like, slapped with inspiration and reinvention, and it’s been amazing for me. Yeah, well, you know, I

Ted Gibson 3:22
would say it is the mountains and the native lands and the people that this community draws to, that draws from, I guess that the people are incredible, and it just has a certain kind of energy that you really can’t put your finger on, yeah, that I’ve never really experienced in all of my travels. I would say that this place has a vibe that everyone needs to experience.

Jason Backe 3:53
The vibe is, for me, as intense in the Coachella Valley as it is in New York City, like, it’s a very different vibe, but it’s got that same vibration, yeah, that same kind of thing that’s hard to pinpoint. And maybe that’s that’s why native people found Manhattan, and that’s why native people found the valley. Like, there’s a lot of places that are way more comfortable than the desert.

Chris Baran 4:29
Well, I live in the desert as well, so I’m from Arizona, so believe me, I know desert, but you know, and you brought up an interesting point there, and I think it’s, there’s a there’s a hook that we’re talking about in here, because I know here in Arizona, I live in the desert, but the word I’m going to, I’m going to hit on in here, is spiritual. It’s got this kind of spiritual vibe to it, and I don’t and for those of you, whether you’re religious or not, I’m not talking about necessarily religion, but I’m talking about the energy that happens. And I think when we talk about the word vibe, that’s what we mean, is the energy that it imparts to you. And I’ll tell you an amazing, well, an interesting story. We also have beauty schools and and one of the people that was on our advisory board, we had a convention that was out here in Arizona, and we had their advisory board that came out here to the house. And when I was talking to one of the gentlemen that owns one of the salons out of Texas and and he said, Chris, you lived in Manhattan. And when we flew in here, I just saw Brown. Why would you live here? And I went well to each his own. And we had them come out to the house, etc. And we live in Fountain Hills, which is upside of the mountain. You know, we’re from Canada, so hills, so we live up in the hills and, and it’s a dark sky community.

Jason Backe 5:53
What’s that? I know Fountain Hills,

Chris Baran 5:55
yeah, see, I just, I love it here you and it’s a dark sky community. And at night time, our, our doors all open up in our living room, and you have this open into the valley, and it’s just stunning. I mean, when I walked into the place, I said, this is the place I want. And when that gentleman walked in, he walked out there, and I don’t think that he was commenting on the house. And I don’t think he was commenting on the land. I think he was commenting on the energy of when you walked out on her balcony and you just saw the beauty of the desert and the mountains and and the flora and fauna that was around it. And it’s got such an amazing spiritual quality to it. And I think that’s what draws you to this area and makes you last when there’s 120 degree, Yeah, agreed. Well, not last, but want to survive, yeah, but I just wanted to say it’s great to have you guys on here. And I think before we start, I don’t know what rock people would have crawled out from that they wouldn’t know who Ted Gibson and Jason Backe is, or is it R, or if I’m a pirate, pirate? Is it RR? Bad dad jokes, but tell, give us your hair stories. How did number one is, what’s your hair story in the industry? And how did you guys hook up, per se, when it came to beauty, do you want

Jason Backe 7:28
to go first with how he hooked up?

Chris Baran 7:30
Or, well, that’s easy. Well, let me qualified hooked up first. I mean, how did you get into the hairdressing industry, and how become a duo in the hairdressing industry. Let’s leave it.

Jason Backe 7:47
We will. Ted was my teacher in beauty school, education center for fashion, beauty, wellness and art in Minneapolis before Institute, it was called,

Chris Baran 7:57
so Were you there when Horst was there?

Jason Backe 7:59
Yeah. Yeah. I just got chills. I know you must

Chris Baran 8:05
be here with us. Yeah, we just

Ted Gibson 8:06
talked about the spirit. So, you know, my hair journey, you know, I’m originally from Texas, and grew up in a small town called Killeen, Texas, and that’s, you know, I have my roots on today, wearing my hat. But, you know, there was that moment where I decided I wanted to go to beauty school, and I couldn’t go to beauty school. I had to go to barber school first, because I could go part time. And as I went part time, I remember picking up a pair of shears and picking up a comb, and how I tingled all the way from the top of my head all the way to the bottom of my feet. And never experienced that before, and I knew that I was in the right place. And at that moment of cutting hair and that moment of doing a perm and that moment of doing a pedicure, I knew that I wanted to be in the beauty

Jason Backe 8:50
business. Ooh, pedicure almost wrecked it

Ted Gibson 8:55
for me, beauty business. And I remember when I was clippering hair one time, and I told my classmates, you know what? I’m going to work on stars someday. And I didn’t know what that meant. Yeah, no idea. Had no idea that I would ever live in New York City. Had no idea that I would ever live in Minneapolis, let alone find, you know, the love of my life, and create the most incredible things on this journey with him.

Jason Backe 9:22
Love it. Yeah, my hair story is a little different. I would i i went to college for a few years, and my whole like life in high school college, I never felt smart. I I knew that I wasn’t dumb, but I never felt smart, and I was riding around in the backseat of my friend’s car with a friend of mine who was a hairdresser, and he was like, You should go to beauty school. And I had never thought about going to Beauty School. I, in hindsight, grown up like. Like, roller setting my grandma’s hair and trying to cut my mom’s hair and shampooing in the kitchen sink and doing my sister’s hair and her girlfriend’s hair for high school dances and stuff. But I never thought about it as a career. But when Adam, that was my friend’s name, suggested it, I was like, Yeah, I’m gonna check out the forest Education Center. And the day that I got there, I was like, these are my people, yeah. Like, I just felt like, I always say it was like, when Dorothy’s house landed in Oz and everything went from black and white to Technicolor, I was like, Oh, my God. And for the first time in my life, I felt not just smart, but talented and just like I was in the right place. And that’s where I met Ted and Horst. I ended up working at a salon in Minneapolis, the John English salon, and Horst told Ted, you need to be in New York City. And I never thought I was going to leave Minnesota like my my biggest move was from northern Minnesota to Minneapolis. You know, that’s what all the freaks did. And when we got the opportunity to go to New York, I didn’t want to go and horse desk Ted again and again. And finally Ted said to me, I don’t think Horace is going to ask again. Let’s just go. And I said, Okay, we’ll go for a year. And it was the same thing when I got to New York City. It was like, Dorothy’s house again landing. And all of a sudden I was in this place that I’d never really been to before. And I was like, Why was I in Minnesota so long? Like, this is where I’m supposed to be. And, yeah, that’s, that’s where it

Ted Gibson 11:44
went, you know. And I, and, you know, Chris, we brought up Horst a minute ago. And, you know, I, I care for lack of better terms, I carry him on my back pocket because, you know, he was such a profound effect on my career. And he’s such he was such a profound, and there’s a hummingbird outside. He was such a profound, yeah, it was such a profound

Ted Gibson 12:17
that, yeah, he just really changed my life in many, many, many different ways. I had the pleasure of learning how to do hair from him. I had the pleasure of learning how to develop product and create a brand. He was such an a strong force. And anyone that that had the opportunity to work with him, they may talk shit about him, they may want to cuss him out, or whatever cussed out, but they can never, ever deny the fact that he was able to give them something that they still carry to today. And I probably would say that same very thing about you, that anyone who has had a career in the beauty business and have touched many, many people’s lives, that there’s no way that someone can’t say if they’re with us for two weeks or they’re with us for 10 years, they would definitely have the same thing that they would say. You know what horse ruckelbacker, Chris Baran had a major effect on my life.

Chris Baran 13:23
Well, you guys are kind. Thank you. What was your fondest memories of Horst? Just give me one. That one just stood out to you. Where it the one that you went? OMG, I’ve either reached my potential, or I see my path, or he said something so profound. Can you Does anything come to your brain right now? Why try to make it cry? This

Ted Gibson 13:52
interview was not supposed to go this way. But, yeah, there’s so many, but one in particular, I I’ve always been a person that I’ve known what it is that I want, and I don’t stop at anything except forgetting that. And I wanted him to teach me how to do hair, so bad I wanted, I wanted him to teach me, myself, by myself, how to dress hair. And I bugged him, and I bugged him, and he finally asked me to come out to the spa. I got two models asked me to come out to the spa, and he helped me understand how to dress hair. And I had the picture of he and I on our bar in the kitchen of he and I together at that moment, where he really made me understand what it means to be a hairdresser at that moment.

Chris Baran 14:55
Isn’t that amazing? Just that word understand? And yes, we have so many people in our business that just tell and so few people that can make you understand. Wow.

Jason Backe 15:11
What about you? Well, two, actually. One was when I first got to New York, I didn’t know where I wanted to work, and I was told by a couple of people that I respected in the industry, like, don’t work at Aveda. If you’re going to work at Aveda, you might as well stay in Minnesota. Work someplace else. And so I interviewed everywhere. I interviewed with Brad Johns, with Garan, with Bumble and Bumble, with, like, everyone that I read about in a magazine, I went there for an interview, and I knew that I would have to be an assistant, because that’s just New York City. Like, if you’re coming there from somewhere else, you got to be an assistant, which I didn’t get at the time. But after being a salon owner in New York City, I totally get it the expectation of the consumer in New York City, when someone knows that they have access to the best in the world, even if they never get it, they know they have access to it, and that alone increases their expectation. But anyway, I interviewed at Bumble with nicarajo, and I had a great and Rodney, yeah, but I don’t think I’m at Rodney until later. Nick is who I interviewed with, and I really liked Nick, and we kind of were speaking the same language, and I knew that I would learn Bumble had a great education program. And so I accepted a job at Bumble and Bumble, and the day before I was supposed to start Ted was at the Aveda Institute in Soho, and I went there to meet him, and Horst was there. And Horst was like, so where are you gonna work? And I said, I’m gonna work at Bumble and Bumble, like, anywhere I go, I have to be an assistant. And to be honest, Garan had no education. All the salons that were the premium salons, it was like, you just watch while you’re being an assistant. There was no assistant. There was no program. And Bumble had a real program. And I said, so I feel like I’m going to learn something there. And Horst said, Don’t go work at Bumble. And Bumble, I know you’re a great hairdresser. Come and work for me. And I was like, Okay. And so I started working at the salon on West Broadway, and it it taught me all of the things that I needed to know to open our first salon. I helped build education programs. I just did a lot of stuff there that was invaluable as a salon owner. And the other time was it was the first time in my life that I went out for lunch with someone. We went over lunch with Horst and Kiran, and I saw the bill when Horst got it, and for four people in lunch in 1995 or something like that, it was over $400 and he didn’t even bat a lash. And then we got in his car service, and we went to Dolce Gabbana and Prada. And he was like, buy whatever you like, and I wish that I really would have you shy.

Speaker 1 18:10
But what do you think about this handkerchief, the

Jason Backe 18:15
way that he was so nonchalant and generous about, I don’t want to say his status, but his, what he’d become, was really inspiring, yeah? And I wanted to be able to be that person that I could be so nonchalant about just being wonderful, yeah?

Chris Baran 18:38
I mean, that’s I’m crying. You know, it’s, if you think about in our industry, all of a lot of the great people that have been out there have been taken early from us, you know. And it’s just such a shame, you know, so good on to both you that and I want to do before I really get into some of the meat and potatoes. Here you mentioned the word stars, and when, because you said, and I’m sure this was something both of you did. You went through your career. You started in hairdressing, and then you even before, then you’re going, someday, I’m going to work on the stars. Yeah. What was that like? What was the first time like, did your butt pucker a little bit the first time you had to do a star’s hair, or was there a pressure on you? How did it? How did it happen? What was the circumstance that put you in it, and then, what was it like the first time you did it?

Ted Gibson 19:32
Well, you know, I Chris, I always from, from an early age. I always wanted to be famous. And I remember when I when horse said that we should move to New York, and His thing was that you should, and you know we’re talking about him a lot, and because for those people are listening for if you are 20 years old or 25 years old or 30 years old. Doesn’t matter. It’s always so important to have someone who will give you an opportunity and for you to take the opportunity, or for you to have a mentor, or someone that you look up to, or someone that, even that you want to emulate, that you see, oh, okay, I see what they’re doing. I want to be like that and take that and adopt it to who you are as an individual, that that will be the most incredible thing. And that’s what happened to me when I have the opportunity to work with horse record Barker. So when he said, you know, you should move to New York and you can help with the salons, and you can do editorial and blah, blah, blah, and I didn’t know what the hell editorial was like. What’s that editorial? I had no idea. But what had happened is we had hired Eugene Sullivan and Pat McGrath at the same time for for our campaign at Aveda, and as we have, we hired them. I was in, I just just gravitated to Eugene and stayed by his side, because I knew that there was something that he had, that I needed and wanted. So as we they did the campaign, and horse said, You know what? You should go to Milan and do shows with Eugene. And I said, What? Yeah, you should go to Milan and do shows with Eugene. So the first show that we did in Milan that season was mew, mew. And it went from mumu to Prada Dolce and Gabbana straness, animal Inari. And it just kept going. They did like, 10 shows that season, and this was at when they were really, really, really, they were starting their career. They’re working with Craig mcdean. They were doing everything in Italian Vogue. And here I am, this black kid from Texas that just moved from Minneapolis in in Milan, Italy, with the top hairdresser in the world, fashion hairdresser in the world. And here it’s happening.

Speaker 1 21:59
He came back

Ted Gibson 22:00
and I was changed. Change. He was a different person. He was a different person. And so when I came back and I started doing editorial, and built this really great reputation in editorial for doing Harper’s Bazaar and 17 and L and Vogue and all these different publications, editorial and a few covers. And at that time, it was starting to shift from models to celebrities. And as a hairdresser, I want I was a fashion hairdresser. I did not want to be anything else except for a fashion hairdresser. And when you think about a fashion hairdresser, fashion hairdressers are in New York, they are in Europe. And what the reason why is because we were the ones that created the trend. So we would do shows, and as we did shows that, just like in Devil Wears product, which talks about cereal and blue, that’s exactly how it was. So we would do shows, and as we did shows, we would create the trend. And it was starting to shift from models to celebrities. And I did not want to be a celebrity hairdresser, Chris, because, truth be told, if you’re a celebrity hairdresser, you lived in Los Angeles, and you weren’t very good, yeah, because all of them, all of the stars at that time, were kind of doing their own hair. There wasn’t any you know thing that was happening. The red carpet was starting. Joan Rivers put that on the map with, you know who you’re wearing, and it kind of started from there. So as I

Jason Backe 23:24
was another amazing

Ted Gibson 23:29
Joan Joan Rivers. So as we, as I started doing editorial. I was doing a cover with Molly Sims, and for Marie Claire and the fashion director, her name is Lucy Sykes, said to me, Ted, I have this opportunity. I said, What? She said, I know you don’t want to do celebrities, but you have to do celebrity. I said, I don’t want to do celebrities. I’m fashion hairdresser. Don’t want to do celebrities. And she goes, No, you have to. I said, What is it? She said, Well, it is a cover of Cosmopolitan in the morning, a cover of Marie Claire in the afternoon, Patrick, de Marie is is, is film is shooting it. And those of you don’t know Patrick, de Marshall Lee, I’m sure you’ve seen the movie Devil Wears Prada she said, Give me Patrick on the phone. That’s the Patrick I’m talking about. And in London, in London. And I said, What? And she goes, Yeah, and you have to do it. I said, I don’t really want to do it. It’s a celebrity. She goes, No, you have to do it. And it was Angelina, Jolie, Oh Jesus. And I took the opportunity. I went and it changed my life. Working with

Chris Baran 24:31
her changed my career. In what way? What happened there

Ted Gibson 24:34
that everybody wanted to know

Jason Backe 24:36
who was doing? Angie. Well, they fell in love.

Ted Gibson 24:38
We fell in love. It was a love affair. And then we he was with

Jason Backe 24:42
her for everything, yeah, but

Ted Gibson 24:44
you know, but you know, you know, Chris, there’s that moment when you work with someone. It can be on a in a the Bel Air hotel. It can be in your salon. It could be in your Salon Suite. It can be in any. Destination, and that woman that sits in your chair and you transform her into who, maybe she doesn’t know who she wants to be, but is our job in order to create that for her, right? That that’s what happened when I started working with Angie, that it was a moment where she was. She had just divorced Billy Bob. She had just adopted Maddox. She was still known at, you know, wearing the blood around her neck. She just had that weird loss with her brother on the red carpet. And when I started working with her, that all shifted, where she became an icon. And the story I was going to tell you earlier, Chris was the fact of about the Actor’s Studio, and it was with Angie. And if you look at that video on YouTube of Angelina Jo Lee at the actor studio with James Lipton, you’ll understand why she was so incredible, especially in these moments, because she the hair changed ever it did, it did, and that relationship that a woman has with her hairdresser is like no other relationship in her life, and that’s exactly what happens when it clicks and you and I give someone something that they can’t they’ve never seen before, that’s when that moment happens. Yeah, and we all as hairdressers, we all have those moments. We all know we it’s it’s a feeling, it’s a love, it’s a vibration, it’s all of those things wrapped up into this moment of spectacular. Yeah, then you can’t deny it.

Jason Backe 27:01
Wow. And that’s really all of a sudden, Ted is interviewed by everyone wanting to talk about Angelina Jolie, and I’d been working at a beta for like, six years, and applied for a creative director position that I did not get, and I took it very personally, and we decided that we were going to take my wanting to go and work in another salon, and his feeling like overnight kind of fame, and combining that and opening our own salon, and we found a space in the meat packing district, just as like Jeffrey had just opened, there was still meat hanging in some places

Chris Baran 27:48
on the streets as well. Yeah, exactly what I mean,

Jason Backe 27:52
all little empty plastic bags

Ted Gibson 27:55
and prostitutes and trends and then

Jason Backe 27:58
Jeffrey, yeah, and we found a space on 14th Street, and we lost it to Sally Hershberger, yeah. And then we found a place on 23rd Street and Fifth Avenue, yeah. And it was great. It was second floor, tons of light, and we were about to sign the lease, and I went with our business partner at the time to look at this one that was right on Fifth Avenue. The rent was $1,000 more a month, which was made it jump from like 7000 to 8000 or something like that. And it was really great. And so Ted came and looked at it, and it was at a building that our realtor wanted us to look at. We’re like, no, no, no, no. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We finally did. And then it was just like, wow. And Ted, so Ted’s always the visionary. I’m the one that’s like, we don’t have an extra $1,000 a month for rent. It’s right around the goddamn corner, like, let’s just do you know? And Ted’s like, no, no, no, no, because nobody’s gonna give a shit if we say Ted Gibson on 23rd street, but everyone in the world will know where Fifth Avenue is, yeah. And when I told this story to my friend Suzanne Sturm, she’s like, Why do you think red can has Fifth Avenue, right? Yeah, no. It’s like, it’s the anchor, yeah. And so, yeah, we decided to do it. I did the math. I was like, Okay, we just have to do this many more haircuts a month, you know? And it worked before, yeah. And it worked for

Chris Baran 29:30
a long time. Yeah, I never realized that that we were literally neighbors because I was on 21st straight off Broadway. Oh, wow, that’s where our apartment was really, yeah, you know, have what? Half block from Gramercy Park? Yes, yeah, a great area, though. I love that area, fantastic area. I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using. I hate working in a small, cramped box. Yet, I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from? Meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space with artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities. With artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus, you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out artist on go built for stylists, serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50% on your rent to find out more, go to B, I T, dot L y slash, artist on go, C, B, that’s B, I T, dot L y slash, artist on go, C, B, they’re both B words. I want to make a little shift here, okay, but the reason why I wrote down these 2b words, and I think they’re both important to talk about, was when you talked about Horst and you talked about your other people believing in you, when sometimes you might not have maybe wanted I’m not going to say you didn’t believe in yourself, but you might not want to do something, because what you believe their path was, And I just want to pay homage to those people that believed in the both of you to help you get where you were. That’s number one. And then what I want to talk about the next b word is the the fact of you working with Angelina, and how you that transformed you from Ted into a brand, and that’s where I want to go next. Is that? I mean, let’s face it, I mean, you guys have done everything in the business, you know? I mean, from product development to you’ve traveled the world, doing hair shows, educating you, you’ve done celebrities. There’s not a magazine that you’ve been in, and everything is based around that childhood dream that you both had about hair, hairdressing, yes, and, and I think it’s safe, and I’m, I’m gonna have to say my my butts puckering a little bit right now because there’s things that I’ve wanted to do outside our business, but maybe haven’t had the cojones to do like I’ve always been. I love I love public speaking, and I’d love to be a keynote speaker outside our industry, just on training and how to train, and leadership and so on, but I’m too damn sprayed, and yet, you guys have had all this notoriety in the hair business, and yet your next phase, what I always call you evolve into, you know, I’ve evolved in from the perm guy to the color guy, to the design guy, avant garde guy and all of that. And now I’ve evolved into the training guy. And you picked something mine was always in the hairdressing industry, and you guys went, Hmm, let’s see. We’re famous, and absolutely famous in the hair business. I’m going to choose beauty and wellness. So there had to be a spur in there. What was it? What made you say wake up one morning and go, Okay, good. Love to love the salons. Loved LA. Loved New York. Well, I love New York. I put up with LA. And now I’m going to move to Palm Springs, and I’m going to, I’m going to start into the beauty and wellness. So there’s people out there that would say, What the hell were you guys thinking? What would you say to them? What was the spur? What made you? What made you get into that line you look like? You want

Jason Backe 34:08
to say something? Well, first of all, I appreciate all the kind of things that you said that’s really nice. And I just want to everyone. I just want to share that. It’s not easy, you know, like we left New York City rich, and we left Los Angeles broke, you know, we moved to LA we’re the kind of guys that we get an idea and we just shift gears, you know, like with our salon in New York City, we, I’ll speak for myself, I reached a point where the things that I loved about it in the beginning, and I can’t believe in December, it’s going to be a decade since we closed that business, but 10 years. But I reached a point where the things that really inspired me when we first opened the salon became the things that I was really resentful towards the end. And I reached. Point where I was unhappy all of the time and I just didn’t want to do it, and we just decided, well, let’s just change everything and we’ll just close it. And we didn’t know that it was going to be such a big deal when we closed it. We didn’t know that people would be writing editorials in trade magazines about what Ted and Jason should have done differently the New York

Ted Gibson 35:20
Times reporter People Magazine wrote about closing the salon, Ted Gibson closing on Fifth Avenue.

Jason Backe 35:28
And for us, it was just like we’re ready to do something different.

Ted Gibson 35:32
Yeah, you know, Chris, we saw the writing on the wall. It was 2015 and 2015 Our goal was always we would because we believe in education, we believe in helping people grow. We believe in all that. Right? So we would go to beauty schools, and we would pick the creme to the cream of the Beauty School, bring them into the salon. We would train them for two years, take them from a $50 haircut or $250 haircut, or in a short period of time, and doing fashion, celebrities, all of these things, right? And 2015 came, and Chris student, students were like, coming and working for two years, yeah, yeah, I’m not, I’m not going to do that. Why would I want to do that? Because the onset of Instagram had come and Facebook and all YouTube and YouTube and all these places that they could see, that people were becoming Insta famous, that people were becoming famous, all of those things and and they

Jason Backe 36:31
had so much more access to education than ever before.

Ted Gibson 36:35
Yep. And then I would cut someone’s hair in the salon. I would take them to our 24 foot retail wall with 35 $40,000 worth of product on the shelf, and as I would grab her products to take her up to the front desk to book her next appointment, as I’m explaining to her again, the product I’m using, she’s putting it On her inner cart. From her we were like, every this whole business of beauty is changing. Everything is changing.

Jason Backe 37:06
And we had a $20,000 rent that started at eight or $9,000 and by the time we got to the end of it was 20 grand a month, yeah. And we were just like, I don’t, I don’t know how we can change this model with this rent, and so there was a lot. It was layered when we when we closed, and then we decided to move to Los Angeles and just reinvent and we came out here without telling anyone that we were moving, and we took six or seven months to think about what we wanted to do next. And that’s when we partnered with Amazon and Alexa and opened the world’s first smart salon, where we incorporated all of the smart technology that was available at that time. And this is already eight years ago,

Chris Baran 37:53
yeah, which is like a it’s like 100 years and totally Yeah.

Ted Gibson 37:58
But you know, as we decided we were going to open this salon because we said we went to every manufacturer you can think of. This is great. Every manufacturer you could think of to tell them, This is what we want to do. We want to create an experience center for you. We have five chairs, what we call clouds. What we want is we want clients. When they come in, they booked their appointment online. They entered the salon from a remote everything in the entire salon was was built from Amazon. That was tech. Everything was tech, from the lighting to the booking system to the room coffee maker, coffee maker I came, which you could do from your phone. So we talked to manufacturers who said, This is what we’re doing. We want to create this experience, this Experience Center. We want to be we won’t want to carry any product in the salon, because it’s too expensive for a small business to carry all this product. What we want to do is we want to have QR codes. Those QR codes you already drop ship anyway. Why don’t you have it where the stylist recommends the product? She takes out her phone, you get the QR code, and you send

Jason Backe 39:07
it to her, whatever,

Ted Gibson 39:08
everything will be fine. They

Chris Baran 39:10
laugh at us. Oh, yeah. And now look at them. Now look at them. Now they laugh.

Jason Backe 39:15
They laugh. They’re like, who even uses QR code? It’s not a really good idea.

Ted Gibson 39:19
We would never, ever, ever betray our stylist and sell on Amazon or any of those things. That’s the God’s truth. And look at it now. Yeah, it’s just the nature of the bees. It’s just what happened. So when we decided we were going to move to LA and open the salon, it was it we had. It was 11 months before covid, and

Jason Backe 39:44
that’s where we went from rich to broke. In hindsight, we should have closed it immediately, yeah, we should have, but we kept it open, kept putting all the money that we had into trying to make this thing work. Yeah, that was getting great press, and that was like the con. Concept was so fantastic, and in hindsight, it was just the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place, no matter how good the idea was and how great the people were that were working there. And then

Ted Gibson 40:11
we had the actors and writers strike, which was another nine months, we could never really gain our footing within that salon, even though it was really incredible. Yes, really incredible. But you know, I believe whether, like you said earlier, whether you believe in God or your spiritual whatever, there are no mistakes that my God, I know, is, is guiding me in the right direction, and that direction was not to be in Los Angeles. Yeah, if you would have

Jason Backe 40:35
never moved to Los Angeles, we never would have bought a house in Palm Springs. If you never heard about a house in Palm Springs, we wouldn’t be living here now and reinventing in the way that we’re reinventing. So it’s like, you know, which brings

Ted Gibson 40:45
us to the reason why, yeah,

Chris Baran 40:46
we have so we’re here now with beauty, so that and so the still the ship. You’d think that the average person that was in that in your position, say, I’m in hair business, so I’m still gonna do something in hair now, yes, what you’re doing is still here somewhat, but it’s still, it’s, it’s leaning, and I don’t, I’m afraid to use left or right anymore, but it’s leaning to the side. Yeah, tell us about it. What? What made this spur into beauty and wellness?

Ted Gibson 41:13
Well, you know, beauty, wellness and science is something that I feel like, and I won’t speak for Jason, but I feel like that is really important, that us as hairdressers, we are the most depleted people on the planet. We are the people that are thought of as second rate a lot of times, and that we don’t necessarily we’re in a business with people that don’t necessarily take care of us and don’t encourage us to take care of ourselves. Yes, that we’re in the salon. We don’t eat anything. We drink coffee all day. We don’t take care of ourselves. We don’t have a ritual or a morning practice that helps us spiritually, that helps us emotionally, because that’s all we’re doing, is giving, giving, giving. And then no one thinks about, Well, where am I going to get my giving? Where’s where’s my goods going to come from? Because I’m giving all day. And then my mom was diagnosed with dementia about a decade ago, and in our quest and really figuring out how we’re going to take care of her mental state and her body and everything over these these last 1012, years, we started thinking about our own health and our own well being. And Jason, I started taking a functional adaptogen called lion’s mane. And as we started taking Lion’s Mane, which is a functional mushroom, Jason said, Do you feel that, Ted? I’m like, Yeah, I feel that. And it’s just short period of time. And what

Chris Baran 42:55
was that? What you said, Do you feel that? What was that? It’s like,

Jason Backe 42:59
in my experience, it’s subtle but profound in the way that it’s like a veil has sort of lifted. You know, people talk about brain fog or versus clarity, and I didn’t really, I never thought of myself as someone who had brain fog. You know, like I hear people talking about brain fog and whatever, but the clarity and being able to focus and pay attention and really being interested in paying attention is different from these functional adaptogens, these mushrooms.

Ted Gibson 43:36
So as we discovered that feeling, we thought we want everyone to feel this way and feel good. And we’ve always heard for years and years and years, whatever you put on the inside of your body shows up on the outside of your body.

Chris Baran 43:51
And I think that I must be putting bags in my mouth coming out below my eyes here.

Ted Gibson 44:02
You have great don’t know what you’re talking about. Yeah, we just noticed that our community of professionals, and in the beauty community, we’re not talking about wellness, weren’t talking about how to take care of ourselves, and not talking about functional mushrooms at all. That it’s as simple as taking a small the product has caused ascension. It’s it’s in a sachet. It’s just taking one of those in the morning.

Chris Baran 44:32
And how, what is one of them look like package? Let’s see what one of them looks like,

Jason Backe 44:40
and the way the rest of the package. Profound, I’ll send you my Venmo. It’s $55 to open this

Chris Baran 44:46
bag. I got it. There you go.

Jason Backe 44:48
So this is, this is one daily dose. Yep. This has the chaga Reishi Lion’s Mane, tremella and rare blue green algae. We’re the only mushRoom brand that we know that’s incorporated the algae. It’s in a coconut milk powder base with a hint of coffee for flavor and a hint of vanilla for flavor. But it’s not a mushroom coffee. So this, we talk about this as like a super food, because you can put it in anything. I bake with it, I put it in I’ve had, I had your, your, let me tell you, um, yeah, and so, you know, you can put it in coffee and it’s delicious, or put it in your smoothie, put it on your cottage cheese, put it on a salad, put it in soup, put it in a sauce, you know, whatever.

Ted Gibson 45:41
And the reason why is because, you know, my mom, you know, she was the catalyst for it, and we had no idea how much it would change our lives because of taking Ascension. And when we think about beauty, wellness and science, it is just that we’re in the beauty business, absolutely. So beauty was first, the wellness piece of it is because we know that functional mushrooms help you be well. And the science piece of it is that we consulted a scientist that lives in Oregon that’s been studying functional mushrooms and algae for over 30 years, and she helped us come up with what this formula would be for optimum health, from brain health to skin health, scalp health, hair health and all over immunity. So it’s one of those things that when Jason said super food, it’s really just that a super food.

Chris Baran 46:33
You know, first of all, I hear the what’s the word I’m looking for? I hate the word I don’t hate the word passion. I hate how the word passion gets so overused. Yeah, but I’m hearing the joy of when you talk about this, and I’m assuming, because I, I, you know, my son’s on this but he i Today we were having a conversation, and he’s, he’s making all this great stuff with and I’m gonna leave it just in case. I don’t know if anybody wants to know about what that is right now or but I hear the joy in his voice when he talks about the things he’s creating right now. Yes. And I hear that same joy when you guys talk about it. Thank you. And I think that that if I’m the listener, you know, so many times I think when people get on a podcast and they say, Oh, here it comes, here’s the bra, here’s the pitch, but I, I think it’s different when you hear the joy of why people went from where they were and how they’ve migrated evolved over into what they are because of the joy of creating something for people to make them better, rather than just the monetary side of it, right? Yeah. And I see that in you when you talk

Ted Gibson 47:44
about and you hit it on the head. Because, you know, yes, we are hairdressers, and most people would think that we would come up with a shampoo and conditioner first, right? Yeah, but we knew that it was so important that we focus on internal first and then come out with shampoos, conditions and diet products later, but it solidifies for us that the the the most important thing is that we be well, and the most important thing is that we take care of ourselves. And how do we do that? We don’t necessarily do that with the shampoo and conditioner, but we can do that. If you take something that takes that you put inside of your body, that is going to help you be, well, that’s the focus of it, yeah.

Jason Backe 48:29
And the full fantasy is that we will do with fungi, what Horst did with plants, yeah. You know, there’s so much science. There’s this tremendous velocity behind fungi right now that has never happened before, and we’re talking to people all over the world that are doing incredible things, like fungi that they’re discovering can digest plastic and turn it into organic material that can clean up oil spills that can, oh, we just learned about one the other day that what’s the on I’m forgetting the word, but it can. It can repair wounds, help skin heal, and mycelium. And Mycelium is like, God, it’s like the largest living organism on the planet. And I was, but

Jason Backe 49:32
I have those days myself, yeah, my feeling.

Ted Gibson 49:40
It’s funny. My feeling helps to connect all the plants underneath the earth. And it’s kind of like, if you’ve ever watched avatar, yeah, basically mycelium, yeah. Mycelium is Yeah, and

Jason Backe 49:54
it’s the link between death and rebirth. You know? It’s cool. We’re taught in colonized. Cultures to be afraid of mushrooms, like, don’t touch that in the woods, right? It’ll kill you. Yeah, you know. But there’s, I think, upwards of 20 million. They’re guessing fungi species that we know nothing about yet,

Ted Gibson 50:22
so incredible. And it’s just really the beginning. You know, we know of mushroom coffees that are happening, which are very, very, very popular, but we know that that’s the piece that we knew we didn’t want to do a mushroom coffee, that we wanted to be a little bit more special than just that. And then that led us to what’s really incredible. Chris is called Convergence, yeah,

Chris Baran 50:45
you know, and I have to, I’ve got a remark on you in that, because, you know, we talked about, I said, the cojones that it takes for to start and shift from here and now go into wellness. But, you know, and convergence is a is a show. It’s, you’re going to be doing a convention, a show, a gig. Yes, we’re doing a gig, a gig, and we all know what those we’ve all done them, yes. And you know that you’re both, like, freaking amazing educators. Thank you and I, but we know, and I’m taking a line from one of my teachers, one of my mentors, Blair singer, where he always talked about, he said, you know, we have life force particles, and when you’re when you’re doing what you guys do, and you’re educating, and you give and you give and you give. And when, when I heard Blair talk about this, I always imagine, you know, like when they do it on the sci fi movies, and they hit you with this kind of Ray, and all of a sudden you go into little Parker particles, and you made a way into nothing. But I’ve always when, when Blair would always talk about when people suck the life force particles out of you. I’ve always thought of these, these particles that you’re going into and they’re being dispersed, but what it is that you get back, you know, and Blair always talked about that you you’re giving, you’re giving, you’re giving, and they’re sucking the life force particles out of you, out of you. But what are you doing to regenerate, right? What are you doing to get those life force particles back? And what I I went shit. Why didn’t I think of that when, because you have at your convention convergence, you’ve got consumers, you’ve got you’ve got consumers and hairdressers and scientists and all sorts of logic and so on. That’s there. So tell us, like, first of all, Were you smoking some mushrooms when you came up with this idea? Was this another form or,

Ted Gibson 52:45
yeah, you know I would, I would say I have Horst in my back pocket. And when I say that I working at Aveda, was, if you ask anyone that worked at Aveda when he was around, and it was, it was really profound, and I tried to stay in that place with him as much as possible. I talked to him all the time. I asked him questions. And some of you may think that that sounds weird, but it’s true. And I think that if you if, if I can connect to someone that I know that has made a difference for me is going to help guide me in the right direction. And when I think about convergence, I wanted to, we wanted to create a mini Congress, yeah, but take it up a notch. And what I mean by take it up a notch is to invite the consumer in as well, because we know that consumer and professional, the lines are completely blurred Now, there is no specific definition of what Professional Beauty means, because it’s obsolete there. You know, we don’t say I’m going to make a salon professional product that doesn’t resonate anymore, and the reason why is because the consumer is so well educated, the consumer is so ingredient literate, the consumer knows so much. And what’s happened is, is that the consumer is driving everything that happens in the salon, whether we really know it or not. If we’re not in touch with it, we have to be in touch with the consumers driving all of that for all of

Jason Backe 54:30
us and the professional you know, this is just sort of the way that I see it. So 15 years ago, maybe even less, they were coming in maybe with a picture of themselves with a haircut that they liked before, or maybe a tear from a magazine of a haircut or color that they liked. But now they’re coming in with AI images of themselves with different hair, and with a Pinterest board or. Or tiktoks, or whatever it is, and they’re saying, This is what I want. And the trick for the professional now isn’t saying, I know the trends and you don’t, and this is what you should do. It’s like, I see what you have there, and I think that that’s amazing. How can we interpret this into something that’s going to work with your lifestyle, with what I already know about want to be and so our we’re not saying that the professional is not still the key to that experience. What we’re saying is this is an opportunity for the professional to refine their expertise in this moment of dramatic change with consumer expectation and consumer education. And you know, like you said, we’ve all been talent on these main stage trade show floors for decades, and we decided that we wanted to do something that was more intimate and a little more curated. And it started off as we have friends that have a little spa out in Desert Hot Springs out here in Coachella Valley. It’s a 10 or 12 room little place. And we were like, Let’s just invite people that think like us, that have this sort of vision about how beauty and wellness are really overlapping like never before, and there’s no turning away from it and see what kind of conversations we have. And that excitement turned into we want. 500 people at the Renaissance Hotel made third and fourth to come, and all talk about the future of beauty and wellness and how science is having so much more of an impact than ever before, because the consumer knows what science is doing with peptides and adaptogens and all of these things that nobody was talking about even five years ago, really. You know,

Ted Gibson 56:53
we have we’re bringing consumers and professionals into the same room. There are times that the professional and the consumer will be separate. But generally, in the general session, we have panels, and in those panels, we have longevity doctors that are talking about peptides, that are talking about the newest, whatever it is that you put in your body, and also what you put on the outside of your body. We have astrologers. We have we have a psychologist, people that talk about fungi.

Jason Backe 57:26
We have whatever other beauty entrepreneurs talking about how their businesses are impacted by AI and by technology in general. We have guy who’s an expert in Asian medicine and psychedelics. There’s such a huge conversations about psychedelics and mental health, and a lot of people have so many questions. And, you know, so we’re we’re bringing all of these different things into two, one hour panel discussions that maybe feel unrelated, but through the questions and answers, we’ll see how all of these things are so overlapping now, like they haven’t, haven’t in the past, and it’s wellness.

Ted Gibson 58:08
You know, your mental your mental clarity, is, is being well. The way you look is being well, the way you feel is being well. All of these things are attributing to your wellness. And most people don’t necessarily think of it that way, but that’s how we think of it, and that’s what we think of the future of beauty is going

Chris Baran 58:29
to be, yeah, and so, you know. And I’m also thinking that if I’m a hairdresser, and I’ve got consumers that are going to this yes and and and my consumer is getting advice that I I can’t afford to miss out on that, yeah, that knowledge and, and, and if I was thinking that about that, I would go. I want my customers to see that I was there absolutely, you know. So I think that’s why that’s so important, is that if this new revolutionary thought processes are coming out.

Jason Backe 59:04
Then, C and B, sorry, our battery’s dying, and my computer came unplugged.

Chris Baran 59:08
Oh, you’ll be back. Yeah. So the the, I think this, this stuff, first of all, this is i, it sounds like an amazing conference. Hey, Chris, yep. Why don’t you just hang on for a second. I’m gonna have to edit this. So why don’t we wait? Yeah, why don’t we wait till it gets back? So what? What were we saying just before the power jumped? Yeah, I think we were talking, just talking about C and B scene, yes, so let’s do that. Maybe, let’s do that over again. Yes, exactly. Let’s start it exactly. We’ve got that there. And then, then I’d like to go into there. Okay, how I want to go from that into how do we? How do they get a hold of you? Where do they go? You know, how can they sign up for this? Thank you. And then I think, I don’t think we’re going to have time for for that, because I’m. Mean, we have a hard stop that we have to do it for, because I have another meeting that I have to be on. Yeah, believe me, it won’t be as fun. I know that already, Chris, I bet you, you can do it. Go for it. Get it. Get it in. Real quick. We’ll do it fast. Then let’s get it in. And if not, though, they can fill me in after that, after after that, there you go. Okay, so Jason, what I’m going to do is I’m going to start again with that C and B scene, hairdressers, etc, about you need to be there. And then I’m going to go into, how do they where do they need to go to get tickets? If they want either tickets for this they want to, want to get the ascension product. Where do they go? What do they have to do? Okay, and then we’ll wrap it up with the rapid fire. Okay, okay, can’t wait for that. You know. I also think that if I’m a hairdresser listening to this, and if I knew that my customers and customers were going to be there from the general population, I’d go, You know what? I think I need to be there, because I need to get this information at the same time as the consumer is hearing this. So that, number one, the people that are there see it, the people that my customers know that when this is on, even if I’m not from that area, and they know I was there. They hear this stuff coming out in the press, and you say you were there right at the beginning when this happened, that makes me the contact and the go to person that gets there, yes, so I think, I just think what you guys are putting together are is absolutely amazing. Thank you. And I don’t mean I’m not blowing smoke. I just think that I said it before. Why don’t I think of that? But it’s just, I think that shows the progression that you have for caring about the industry, and I applaud you for the energies that you’re going to be giving back to the public and to the hairdresser. Thank you very much. We’ve talked about two things here that I think are critical. Is, number one is the product itself. I mean, I’m I promise you, I’m sending my checkbook. I want some of this for me. I need to clear up some brain fog. That’s the first part. Second part is the see or be seen there. And so if people want to either a find out more about the product, purchase the product, if they want to get go and and, okay, now I’ve heard this. I get it. I understand what this is about with convergence, and I want to get there. Where do they go? How do they get a hold of tickets? How do they get a hold of the product? Well, the

Jason Backe 1:02:34
easiest way is pull out your mobile device right now, viewer, because for the product, you can scan that QR code right there, and that’ll bring you right to the order now on our website. And I think what we should do is we should create a code that your fans and followers can use to get a discount on our product. So let’s make sure we make that happen. And then if they want to come to convergence, that’s the QR code there. So scan that. It’ll bring you right to the place that you can book tickets if you’re listening and not watching, go to ted gibson.com at TED gibson.com we have a full page dedicated to convergence, where you can really learn more about it, about why we’re doing it, who’s coming. We’ve got some of our presenters up on the website now, our sponsors up on the website. And then we’ve also got a full page for ascension, so you can get both your ticket, all the information you want on the product and the show @tedgibson.com Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:03:41
And I think that if they want that either, just type in ascension and then put, what should we say, ascension slash head cases?

Jason Backe 1:03:50
Okay, yeah, I think we can even just skip ascension, because it’ll be it’s at checkout, so they’ll already be there, so we’ll just have it be head cases.

Chris Baran 1:03:57
Okay, just type in head cases, and then you’re like that. So again, again, if you’re listening, just remember Ted gibson.com and you can go there, you’ll get all the information. They’ll have that stuff on there. And then you can just mention head cases, and then you’ll get that, get that. Thank you. Chris, yeah, so guys, I just want to say this, it’s been an absolute pleasure. I don’t know who enjoys this more the people that are watching, listening, or me, and I have to say, probably me, but I want to throw this out quick, rapid fire stuff. First thing that comes to your brain, I’m going to throw it. I’ll go spin it back and forth with the both you. Jason, what turns you on in the creative process?

Jason Backe 1:04:40
I think it’s that feeling of excitement and inspiration. I know that I when I’m when I’m in the mode of inspiration and creativity, then that’s that just takes me got it

Chris Baran 1:04:55
and what stifles it?

Jason Backe 1:04:58
Boredom for. But I know that if I’m bored, I’m boring, so I try to shift gears and get unboard.

Chris Baran 1:05:04
Got it Ted, yes, the things in life that you love the most.

Ted Gibson 1:05:12
I love my husband, I love my house, I love my body, I love my mind. I love my dogs. I love my business. I love doing hair. I love being alive, wonderful.

Chris Baran 1:05:30
And in life, what do you dislike the most?

Ted Gibson 1:05:33
I dislike rude people. I dislike people who if you look at them and they look at you and you say hello that they don’t say hello back. I dislike bad energy, and I am an empath, and I pick up on it, and I move up to move out of the way. I dislike racism. I dislike anything that has to do with keeping people in a place where they necessarily don’t want to be or maybe even don’t know how to get out of it, and I hate that. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:06:09
let’s see. Okay, good. Jason, what do you love most about our industry?

Jason Backe 1:06:15
I love the people. I think that people that are drawn to this industry are like a combination of rock star and bartender. You know, we have we know how to be the center of attention, but we also know how to listen and pay attention. And I think that there’s something really special about the way that we connect with our communities, the way that we’re the hub of every community that we’re in. We’re the we’re the people that are like, where did what shows happening? What? What restaurant open in town? What’s going on after the church bake sale? Like, what we know, everything that’s going on. And so people come to us for more than just hair. They come to us because we’re cultural connectors. Yeah, we’re

Chris Baran 1:06:56
the cool kids. We’re the cool kids on the block. And what do you just a quick answer, what’s your What do you dislike the most about the industry

Jason Backe 1:07:06
insecurity move? I think, I think a lot of us that are drawn to this want to make other people beautiful, because there’s something that we feel like we’re missing.

Chris Baran 1:07:18
Yeah, Okay, this one’s for both of you, person that you admire the most Ted, smart answer. Smart answer, okay,

Ted Gibson 1:07:36
really dirty, but I’m not going

Chris Baran 1:07:40
to okay Ted person that you wish you could meet.

Ted Gibson 1:07:48
Oh, my God, the tough one is that living

Chris Baran 1:07:50
or dead, anybody you’ve got, you’ve got the whole world to pick from.

Ted Gibson 1:07:54
I would say, personally I would love to have meet Martin Luther King. Oh, wow,

Chris Baran 1:08:01
yeah, wow, wow. We haven’t had that one come up, and that’s brilliant. And Jason, something that people don’t know about you.

Jason Backe 1:08:13
I’m an Eagle Scout. Oh, trustworthy, little helpful, friendly, Curtis con obedient,

Chris Baran 1:08:19
triple this or this, I can’t remember. No, this is LA, Oh, yeah. La, yeah, here. Okay, good to the both of you. One answer, what? Because I’m sure that as a couple, you’d know where this is a month off. Where would you go and what would you do?

Jason Backe 1:08:37
Well, I really want to go to Machu Picchu.

Ted Gibson 1:08:41
I want to go to South of France. Ah, I want the south of France. I love Morocco. Can I have two? I love Morocco?

Chris Baran 1:08:47
Yeah, yeah. We can do it. Listen, we can have as many as we want. It’s all right, okay, for both of you, what thing that terrifies you? I don’t know about me. It’s me. It’s spiders. I just I can deal with rattlesnakes, but I can’t deal with spiders.

Ted Gibson 1:09:02
I want to say, what terrifies me is thinking about my own mortality. Oh, wow, Jason,

Jason Backe 1:09:12
just being unwell like I want to do what I can to stay well as long as possible.

Chris Baran 1:09:18
Good, smart. I’m adopt that one too, because I’m gonna be using ascension. Okay, both of you favorite cuss word, pussy.

Jason Backe 1:09:30
Oh, you do say that a lot. I go between. I go between god damn it and mother fucker. I want

Chris Baran 1:09:44
to make a reel of all these with all after the other.

Ted Gibson 1:09:50
So is pussy a cup a cuss word,

Chris Baran 1:09:52
it can be. Okay, yeah, okay, the favorite comfort food i. French fries. Oh, Jason, I like tater tots. Tater Tots. Yeah, we’re close there. See, might it be Putin I just put in all that and gravy, you know. Okay, good. If you had one do Jason, if you had one do over in your life, what would it be?

Jason Backe 1:10:21
Save for retirement. Okay, good brother and sister in law, or my sister and brother in law, have saved 20% of every check that they’ve made since they grad graduated from high school.

Chris Baran 1:10:35
Why didn’t you do that? SMART? SMART Ted. Yes, tomorrow you couldn’t do hair. What would you do? I’m doing it. Ah, ta da, I’m doing it. Yes, okay, for the both of you, if you had one wish for industry? Well, actually, I’m going to give you this one. What’s if you had one wish for industry? What would it

Ted Gibson 1:11:01
be that we would erase competition, Jason,

Jason Backe 1:11:09
that we would Yeah, kind of along those lines, like partner together more than Yeah, fuck shit about each other,

Chris Baran 1:11:17
yeah, yeah. Wouldn’t it be great if we, instead of talking smack, we combined. And you know, you know, one plus one can be three or five. Oh my God,

Ted Gibson 1:11:26
just think how incredible it would have been

Chris Baran 1:11:29
during covid. Still can be still. Can Be still, cannot it’s not too late for sure. Well, the two of you, damn it, we don’t get a chance to talk enough. And I love you both. Next time, when I’m in Phoenix, we’re going to get together, have much wine or coffees or food or whatever that is, and have more shits and giggles. Yeah, we need more of that. And I’m going to leave you. First of all, I just wanted to say, thank you so much for you guys are going through hell right now, putting the program together in a good way, putting the program together and launching your product. And it you took time away to to be on head cases. And I just wanted to say, from bottom my heart, thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thanks again. It was a pleasure. And I just want to say this, Jason, you said that you left New York rich and you left la broke, but the richness that you guys are bringing to the world with this new product and your convergence convention. I can’t believe I got that out. Both those words are so close that the summit that you’re doing is going to help to enrich people’s lives. So that’s back to being rich. So I just want to say thank you guys, absolute pleasure to have you on. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow head case. Head cases is produced by cut action media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.