ep121 – Tippi Shorter Rank

My friends, welcome to another episode of Headcases — and this one’s a good one. My guest is a true powerhouse in the beauty industry. You probably already know her as a celebrity stylist, with a client list including Alicia Keys, Rihanna, Jennifer Hudson, Lady Gaga, Kim Kardashian, and Serena Williams.

She made history as the first African American beauty professional spokesperson for Pantene and as Aveda’s first Global Artistic Director for Textured Hair. Today, she’s the Global Artistic Director for Mizani and a proud member of the L’Oréal Professionnel Color Artistic Team. Get ready for an inspiring conversation with the one and only Tippi Shorter Rank!

• 3:28 – Tippi’s experiences with celebrity clients
• 7:19 – Advice for aspiring celebrity stylists
• 35:36 – Challenges and changes in the beauty industry
• 1:06:02 – Final thoughts and industry wishes

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire, and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success.

Well, my friends, welcome to another episode of head cases, and this is an exciting one. Today’s guest is Tippi Shorter Rank, and you probably know her as a celebrity stylist, and to name just a few of the celebs that choose Tippi to do the amazing work on their hair, are people like Alicia Keys, Rihanna, Jennifer Hudson, Lady Gaga, Kim Kardashian, Serena Williams. Now if that doesn’t impress you enough, then she became the first American, Afro American Beauty professional spokesperson for Pantene, and the first global artistic director for textured hair for Aveda. Now she’s Mizani global artistic director, and is the new member of the L’Oreal professional color artistic team. So let’s get into this week’s head case, and I know you’re gonna love her and hear her talk as much as I did. So please give it up for Tippi Shorter Rank

Tippi, It has been forever in a day, we have never really had a chance to get together and have an in depth conversation, and I’ve been craving this moment. So first, I just want to say

so damn pleased to have you on here, and this has been it’s really, I’m just really, super excited about this, and I can’t say enough, welcome to head cases, and thank you for giving up your time, for being on here.

Tippi Shorter 2:04
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, same I’ve been wanting to be a part of this program with you for quite some time now, and I know we’ve had to reschedule a few times. You know, life says of a hairdresser and an entrepreneur, but today’s the day, and we are here, so I’m so excited. Check and here we go.

Chris Baran 2:24
And you know what? Normally I start with the hair. I always want people to know contextually, like our backgrounds, why and how do we get into business? I would start a little bit differently with you. Because, I mean, if anybody doesn’t know your pedigree of what you do in celebrity, and I know there’s a lot we can get into this because you you were in it and out of it and back into it again.That was, that was the weirdest lead in that I’ve ever done for anything in my life. But I just want to start with that as like, is that, you know, when you have a new you dress the hair for people and like,

you know, Alicia Keys and, you know, and having Jennifer, Jennifer Hudson, Lady Gaga, and those type, you know, I think that most people would be scared to death to even talk to them, must, much less Doing their hair and have them responsibility like that. So first off, what’s it like?

Tippi Shorter 3:28
Well, they are just people, I will add that and but I the first few times of meeting any of these celebrities that I’ve had the amazing pleasure to work with, I there, there was a great sense of butterflies, you know, particularly if I’m a huge fan, and I’ve been so, so super lucky that the clients that I had worked with I am also fans of. So I get to truly enjoy, getting to know them, being around them help, you know, making them hair heroes

or hair goals, you know, on the Insta world and social media. So it’s just been really fantastic for me. I will say there, there was one young lady that I worked with her solidly for about five years, and every time I saw her, it was like the very first time. And she goes by Queen Bee. If you know who she is, I know exactly who you Yeah. So, so I didn’t work with her as frequently in terms of, you know, every week, every month. And so it was, I maintained her hair, and as a result, whenever I saw her, it was almost like the first time, every time. But, you know, working with clients like Alicia Keys, I worked with her almost every other day over the course of 12 years. So, you know, we became almost like family and so, but it is. I just worked with Jennifer Hudson, actually, four days ago, and I haven’t seen her. She’s amazing, and I hadn’t seen her since her TV show. So it’s been that long since I’ve seen her. And literally, the really.

Wonderful thing is that I was getting butterflies prior to her arrival, but the moment she walked in, there was literally like no time was lost, which, you know, lets you know how genuine of a person she is, and what type of genuine relationship we had together. And it’s just, you know, you what the celebrities look for is someone who is talented and professional and someone that they can truly build a relationship. Because at the end of the day, we are in their personal space. We’re around their friends, we’re around their family. We’re sometimes in their homes, you know. And so they’re just really looking for someone that they can to their network of family, professional family.

Chris Baran 5:38
Yeah, thank you, you know. And I want to, I’m just, I’m going to do in one step to the side, because you just got finished a while back, doing a video for the hairdressing industry, particularly for students, and even more so, for the parents of of kids going into a school. And let’s face it, it’s not rocket science to figure out that, that there’s people in our industry that make incredible money and and yet, because of a few parents think that our industry is not worthy, and they want them to go into another field of whatever that might be, because they feel like they’re on an elevated socially stature, finance, emotionally relationships, etc. And yet, this is such an amazing industry, and people dream of doing session work, which you’ve done. I was looking through your portfolio on on your website, and it’s freaking awesome. I mean, the work that you do is unbelievable as a session stylist, but you get to be, it’s just not fair. You get to be a session stylist. You do celebrity hair, you do normal hair, and you’re just an honor. You know, all around perfect hairdresser

Tippi Shorter 7:13
back because I yeah, I was gonna cut you off and say, I’m just an all around cool girl.

Chris Baran 7:19
Yeah, there you go. But so what like, how if some kid that’s just starting in the business, or they’ve been around for a while, and then they thinking, I just want to do that. How? How do they like? What would you say to people? Well, how do they get in number, get into the business. What do they all have to do? And I’m sure it’s changed, but what would you tell them?

Tippi Shorter 7:41
So when you say, get into the business, are you speaking specifically about celebrity? Celebrity? Yes. Okay, so assist. That’s the first thing. Is, if there are people that you know that are already working with celebrity, the best thing you can do is offer up your time to assist. If either, if you don’t know anyone who is in that space, do your research. Do your research. Find out who your favorite celebs are. Find out who your hair heroes are, and find out who does their hair. Follow them. DM them and let them know. Hey, I’m available. I’m in this city. If you ever need someone to just hold hair pins for you.

So that’s, that’s the way to go, is by assisting. There’s so many assistants that I had, personally that have gone on to have amazing careers, get picked up by, you know, top agencies and do top celebrities, so and that kind of happens because, you know, if I have an assistant, for example, who shows up with me to a job and continues to show up with me to the job one time. Maybe I’m not available, but my client is so familiar and comfortable with my assistant that they’ll give my assistant a shot. Yeah, and if that works, now that’s on their resume. And then, you know, and then maybe that’s someone who potentially could be there, you know, become their new client, and so things like that. There is another opportunity if you can’t connect directly with the hair stylist, is contact agencies. And you know, the agencies primarily exist in the main markets, main market, meaning Los Angeles, New York, Miami, Atlanta, Chicago, cities, yeah, but however, you know, I, for example, have lived in Kansas City for the last 11 years, and not that I’m getting bookings here, because, you know, I have my history and my relationships from living both in New York and in Los Angeles. But here, in a market like this, there are tons of modeling and acting agencies, and those agencies tend to also represent hair and makeup so if they are booking models, they’ll also try to book their hair and makeup teams as well. So if you So, definitely reach out to your local modeling agencies to see if you can be represented by them, or even assist their artists that they’re representing, just to get your foot in the door and build up. Portfolio.

Chris Baran 10:00
Yes, you know, and I think that’s it. Excuse me. I always call it, you know, building your chops, you know, you’ve got to get, excuse me, you’ve got to get start somewhere, even if it’s editorial, to get, you know, learn that editorial hair is different than salon hair. Yes, you I mean, you’re going to use techniques. And they say, what you mean? You don’t use, blah. Don’t use blow dryers, etc. No, it’s, it’s, it’s really a different beast. And to learn the word I wrote down there that I that I loved where you were going, I don’t think it was your word, but when you were talking about building up relationships, so the more that you can, you know, like, if I said to you, Hey, can I come and hold pins for you? I’m starting to build up a relationship. And then the person that that you’re doing like you said, they build up a relationship. They know you. They know that they can trust you. And I think especially when I’m only guessing, Alicia Keys is not going to just say, hey, that’s hair stylist across the street. Whatever they got a good name, they don’t, it could mean something disastrous for a picture if they don’t pick the right person Absolutely, exactly. And so when you’re talking about like a list celebrities like someone like Alicia Keys, they’re not really

Tippi Shorter 11:19
looking for referrals. They are, they’re they they have managers, and they’ve got publicists who work with agencies, and they send in portfolios, and, you know, they kind of do like little interviews, so they’re looking at top tier talent and but the opportunity will come as if that top tier talent hairstylist has a team of assistants, and that’s how you’re able to get your foot in the door, you know, in that space. And that’s actually a really great story. So I never went on an official tour with Alicia Keys, because by the time I was working with her, I was married, I had a daughter, and I told my family I would never leave for more than two weeks at a time. So you know, when you’re on a tour, you’re talking months at a time. So I actually had an assistant who would show up with me occasionally for Alicia’s jobs, and when she went on tour, I brought my assistant on tour with me for that two weeks, and then my tour, my assistant stayed on tour with her for two months. And that’s not something that would have happened, you know, if it wasn’t someone who had been in the space and had been comfortable with me, so that’s really probably the fastest and easiest way to get your foot in the door, is to really put your head down, do the work, find the artists that you know, inspires you. And when I say artists, I don’t mean celebrity artists. I mean hair artists that inspires you. And, you know, offer your time, your you know, and a lot of it’s unpaid, by the way, the sometimes the assistant jobs are unpaid. And, but if this is something you truly want to do, this is doing your due diligence, you know, kind of putting in your sweat equity, if you will. And, you know, a lot of times the payoffs are really, really big, yeah.

Chris Baran 12:57
And to that point it even then, if you’re looking at this celebrity stylist world, it works if you’re looking at at, excuse me, if you’re looking at getting into fashion week. That works if you’re looking into becoming an artist for a manufacturer. That works exactly all about you may have to do some things, like you might make X amount of dollars in the salon doing hair every day, and you might not make that at the beginning, but it gives you the inroad. And I think that’s that kind of it’s exactly that we’ve just talked about, the celebrity status, you know, you’re, you’ve got your own salon, you’ve, you’ve, you do all of these things. I want to jump back to the beginning like, you know, people ask me, Well, did you always want to be a hairdresser? And I said that there’s two kinds of people. There’s ones that always knew that they were going to be hairdressers, and the ones that fell into it, Which one were you the second the last that was me,

Tippi Shorter 13:59
yeah. Yeah. So I grew up in Southern California, and I love sharing this part. I grew up in Southern California. I’m from Long Beach, and if anyone knows who is from Long Beach, Cameron Diaz, Snoop Dogg, and so yes, I knew them. And so love to throw my little LBC in there. But while growing up, I was always involved in the creative arts. So I was in singing groups. I was in dancing groups and things like that. And not a very good singer, by the way, let me just add I was, I was in the group. I could hold a harmony and but what I did do was I always made sure that I was the one who coordinated what we looked like, meaning from like, head to toe, what what we were doing with our hair, our makeup, what we were wearing, and that’s just something I loved to do. So I didn’t even think of it as a job or a career or anything that could go beyond the singing group. And after graduating high school, I did a semester of college, and I just told my mom, like, Ah, this is not working.

I don’t know the you know, it’s just I need to, this is not what I want to do. I need to figure out what I want to do. And one of my girlfriends said, Hey, tippy, you know, I always noticed that in your singing groups, you know, this is what you gravitated towards. Why don’t you think of, you know, why don’t you consider going into the beauty industry? But it didn’t even dawn on me that that could be a career for me. Now, let me back up and say, I’ve always had a ton of hair, and I have been a hair stylist. I’ve had I’ve been a hair salon client since I was like five. My mother and I would go to the salon every two weeks, and that’s what we would spend an entire Saturday in a salon. So I knew the salon experience, but I guess I didn’t think of myself in that space, just to see myself in that space, and when I, when she, you know, broached the idea to me, of, you know, falling into the beauty industry. By this time, I had learned that celebrities had hairstylists. I didn’t even think about that. Of course, celebrities have hair stylists, and so since I was so in tune to the entertainment industry, and that was a space that I saw myself spending a lot of time in, I thought it was going to be as a performer, but as it turns out, it was on the on the backside of things, you know, and behind the scenes in the beauty space. So yeah, I ended up going to beauty school, and I had a job waiting for me right out of beauty school from this incredible, incredibly talented woman named jameka Wilson. By the way, shout out to jameka. She is the first woman of color to have won an Oscar. She won it a few years back for

woman King. So she is like her stylist to Viola Davis, so that was my very first boss outside of beauty school, and she also worked in the entertainment industry at that time, doing music videos for groups and singers and performers and such. So I really kind of got my first start right as an assistant, because I was her assistant and but I had my first opportunity to be on music video sets and photo shoot sets and get, like, a real taste of it without having the responsibility of being, you know, the main hair stylist. So I got to learn that this is an environment I really love and I crave to be a hair stylist like this. This is the way I see myself being a hair stylist. So that was the trajectory that I set myself on. And from there,

I lived in California for two additional years, still assisting jameca. And then I had an opportunity to move to New York. So I moved to New York. And so I think at this time I was about 20, moved to New York City,right? Exactly, and, and I got my first job, and which is funny, because this is a totally separate scenario, but my very first job in New York City, I found in the Village Voice. And for those of New Yorkers, you know what that is, or was, and it was working for a woman who had just written a book about curly hair, and she was starting to create a huge curl company, and I was her assistant for a year. Her name is Lorraine Massey. I you know what? I think I met. You know that it okay? I do. Okay. So Lorraine Massey is the originator of all things, diva diva curl, diva cut, diva products, diva Sean, all the stuff. But at the time she didn’t have any products. So we’re talking like mid 90s. She didn’t have her huge brand, but she was starting to write her book, The curly. I forget what the book was called anyway. So that was my very first job, and I assisted her while I was beating the pavement, trying to find myself an agent and trying to connect with other hairstylists, makeup artists, stylists, photographers, to start building a portfolio, because, again, that was the space I knew I wanted to work in and so eventually I ended up meeting this woman just randomly on the street i And the funny thing about this is that I am quite the introvert, so I’m not really good at, like, passing up business cards and speaking to people I don’t know. And I just saw this woman and I said, You know what, she’s gorgeous. She’s walking down New York City, she’s walking down Park Avenue, and she’s got these beautiful golden labs, and she had this, you know, really silly bun in her hair. I was like, she’s so fabulous to have this really silly bun in her hair. And I gave her a card, and I told her exactly that. I was like, You’re too fabulous for your hair. Like your hair needs to be as fabulous as you. And she told me, Well, I don’t need your card because I represent hair stylist. And and I had heard the term agent, but I didn’t really know what that was. So she was like, I represent hair stylist. And I was like, Okay, explain more. And so she asked me to bring my portfolio to her, and I did. And.

Was my very first agent. She took me on. I didn’t really have a solid portfolio. I really just had a few Polaroid pictures to be if I ever want to be perfectly honest. And she took a chance on me. And two weeks later, I was doing my very first music video. No way.

You know, it’s funny, as I’m saying, by the way, and that was because I finally decided to open my mouth because typically I would not have,

Chris Baran 20:22
yes, you know, and there’s but think about that. It always reminds me, I don’t know if you ever saw the movie sliding doors, where you gotta go back and see it, because it’s really interesting on how the whole movie is based on the premise. I don’t know if it was that great that you want to go back and watch it again. It was sliding door. Just meant in New York, on a subway, the door opens, the girl walks in and and then they show her like her life, and then they show the same thing, where she misses the door, the door closes, doesn’t get on the train, and then it’s interspersed back and forth with those two stories of how one person gets sex successful and the one that missed the door or other way around, didn’t. I don’t remember which one was which, but I always think of that when I hear stories like you just told us, if you as an introvert. Hi, my name is Chris, and I’m an introvert, you know? I think we, Hi, Chris, you know, I think we all go through that. And it’s funny chippy, how the more that I get on this and interview amazing people like you,

that so many are introverts, yeah, you know, and I and it’s really they see you on stage all the time, and they think, Oh, my God, she’s got to be gregarious and an extrovert and the social butterfly and all that. So true or not at all. Not true. So I’ve learned, you know, as an educator, ways to connect to people, and also let me add growing up being a performer was always something I wanted to do, so this is my opportunity to utilize that performance energy into my education. And so that’s how I channel that. Yeah, that’s awesome. And you know, I think that, like for people that are watching and listening if you can, if you get the tones here, how somebody that was an introvert like the sliding door, you you, you have to sometimes get out of your own damned way and make an entrance, do a pass out a card, talk to somebody, and so on. And I’m so guilty of that because I’m just so introverted that when it comes to trying to meet people, I always think, well, you won’t know who the hell I am, that you’re going to reject me and all those little voice crap that’s going on, and then you do it anyway, and but, and none of that comes true. None of it really comes true. So

little sidebar, can I ask you a question? I don’t know if you’ll give me the answer to it. Sure. I’ve listened to you many, many times, and I’ve heard you tell that your real name is not tippy. I mean your born name is not tippy. So two, two part question.

Number one is, would be, how did you get the name tippy? And number two, what is your name that you don’t use?

Tippi Shorter 23:25
So it’s so funny. I remember being on tour with someone, and they used my government name because of legal documents. And someone was like, Who’s that? Oh, tippy is not coming. I’m like, That’s me.

So no, not sharing, not sharing the government name. My mom while in utero, used she said, I used to my I would kick her and poke her. And so she was like, look at her tippy toes, tippy toe. So she would call me tippy toe and

and so I don’t know how it just dropped a Tippy, but before I was born, she and my dad were talking, and she’s like, I want to name her tippy, because this is what you know, I’ve been calling her for the last however many months. And he’s like, No, that’s stupid. We’re gonna name her this. And so the other name is what they ended up naming me like, legally, however, let me add my dad has never called me anything but tippy since I can remember, no one in my family has ever called me anything but tippy. I, in fact, I don’t think I ever knew what my real name was until I officially had to, like, write it on something like in school. So, yeah, the tip is my name since it says forever. Yeah, you’ve been that name before you had your government name. I had that name before I had the other name.

Chris Baran 24:40
You You’ve got to give me. I tried because, you know, you see, that’s not my real name. You know, the first thought is, well, then, what the hell is it? Why? No, it’s like this moment. I know everyone asks, well, it does begin with the T and.

Tippi Shorter 25:00
So that’s why you’re gonna get from me, yeah? Tippy. Tippy, yeah. So again, once again, moms went out. Ladies went out that, you know, this is the name it’s, dad goes, no, moms win. That’s awesome, exactly. So

Chris Baran 25:17
on.

I always love like of me, I, I started. I started on the show circuit in, oh God, 1980 something. I can’t even remember the year. I think it was actually, no, I started. It would have been show circuit. I started on in 1978 and and so. But everything was a lot different than it is now. You know, when you travel, and I remembered that we would always go and, and, you know, I it’s going back to what it was before, like for those of people that are not familiar with it, when you’re become a manufacturer artist at one time before, when we first started off, all the manufacturers knew each other as a hairdresser, you know, and you’re just a hairdresser, and you guys knew one another. We hung around together before the shows. You’d be in the bar. Oh, did I say bar? I’m at coffee shop. I don’t

have this red nose here for nothing. So you’d be in the bar and you just share war stories, or you’d share pranks, or you’d share silly stories that happened in it, and then I’m gonna jump over the era where then it became you were with this manufacturer, so you better not talk to that person and so on, because it was this rivalry and so on. And I think that we’re really getting back to hairdressers. I always liked what Sam Bea says, hairdressers, helping hairdressers. You know, connecting with hairdressers. And I think we’re getting back to that very much now. Is there either when you as an educator or or as a celebrity stylist, funny stories, or do you guys pull pranks and and thing on when they’re on sets or whatever.

Tippi Shorter 27:05
You can’t say pranks. And let me just say in the celebrity space, you don’t really see or connect with other hair stylists, because on the job, there’s only one hair stylist and there’s one makeup artist. So you do know other hair stylists, but a lot of times, you’re kind of in competition with those other hair stylists, because everyone’s kind of vying to have that same client, you know. And if your celebrity client has multiple hair stylists, then, you know, again, you’re kind of competing with that hair stylist. So no, so you’re not really connected unless you were friends to begin with, you know. So that’s really kind of the only way you stay connected in the celebrity space. However, I will say, in the last maybe like five years or so, I think

a lot of hairdressers and makeup artists got over the idea that that’s my client. Because I think, like when I first started, there was a lot of, you know, well, my client, my client, my client, and then a very wise makeup artist, an incredible makeup artist named Sam fine said, you know, they’re they’re not your client. They spend their money with whoever they want to spend with, you know, with whenever they want to do it. So today, they’re your client. Tomorrow, they might be someone else’s client. And I’m like, That’s so profound, and you are 100% right? And from that point, it really turned changed my perspective on what I thought about the people I worked with. Stop calling them technically my clients, but they are celebrities that I had the opportunity to work with at that time. If they continue to call me amazing, if they don’t, it was fun, you know. So to that point, I feel like a lot of hairdressers maybe kind of had their own pivotal moments, and we started to unite a bit more, you know. And

let me just say, I’ve had a celebrity client who almost kind of pitted one of us against the other, and that was really childish and silly and stupid, and, you know, kind of played into, you know, well, get this right, or I’m gonna have to call such and such. And I’m like, why would you say that? Like, you know, that’s a really weird thing as you know, as a as a client, I’m just thinking in a salon scenario, if a client is sitting in your chair, I don’t think they would say, get my cut right. Or I don’t have to go sit in someone else’s chair, you know. So there’s a lot of little silly games sometimes that the and not to say all celebrities do that, obviously, but there was a I lived that was a real life scenario for me. Yeah, that sounds little passive aggressive. On Yeah, on that part, you know, without controlling

Chris Baran 29:40
there are any funny things that happened with like instances that happen with the celebrity and you that are laughable now, or playing a joke on one another, or interesting stories, silly things that came up? You know, I don’t know, interesting jokes, and I don’t know but what I can say, and.

Tippi Shorter 29:59
Probably back to my introvert self and the fact that I, you know, I did not ever take the liberty to become friends dealing with my clients. We have really great relationships, like a like a salon client would with, you know, their stylist, but I’ve had clients who wanted to be my friends. And early on in my industry, or early on in my career, I did become really good friends with a few of my clients, and then when my those clients decided to move on to another hairstylist, it hurt. It was like a relationship. It was like a real breakup. So from that point, I really kind of just put a, you know, we’re not doing that. I’m not doing that anymore. I’m not going through this hurt anymore. So it’s a business relationship. I’m going to show up, I’m going to show up, I’m going to do my job, I’m going to be professional. I’m going to, you know, be cordial. I’ll, you know, if you’re inviting the entire team to dinner, I’ll go to dinner, but if you just want to hang out with me, I don’t want to do that, you know. So I don’t have any of those types of stories, because I did decide to keep it really professional. And I I’ve had two clients tell me, kind of, when I told them I was gonna, you know, move into education and really, kind of stop doing this type of work full time, they both told me what I really appreciate you tippy, is that you are a such a consummate professional like you. And what the celebrity told me is you never really wanted to hang out. I didn’t feel like you were trying to, like, befriend me and trying to do these things. And I was like, No, you know. And I’m glad you didn’t do the same for me, you know. I’m glad we have this relationship, because now we can have this conversation. And I think that’s why, moving forward, 510, years later, I can see this person, and it’s still such a really great relationship, yeah, you know, you know, there’s a lesson inside there, you know, I

Chris Baran 31:40
it was always these lessons that happen, and sometimes you got to think a little bit deeper and go beyond the first degree of that. So I would just throw that back right to I so many salon owners become they want to think of their employees, the people that are working around them, their team. And I’m not saying that you can’t be friendly with people, but I am saying, and what my advice is to people, is that they’re not your friends. You know is that the more you just become friends with your employees, that’s when people get so hurt, when people want to leave and do the same thing that they did. I did. You did, yeah, work for somebody, and you’re building your career, you’re moving up the ladder, so you’re going exactly. And I think that’s where the lesson is. And what you were talking about is, in that instance, you said, I don’t like the hurt that goes along with this. So,

you know. And then they they do two things. First thing that happens is somebody wants to leave, then they get upset. They’re no longer their friends. How could you hurt me like that? Wow, you know. And then, from a even, from a client perspective, the clients your friend, and then you’re not charging them appropriately.

Tippi Shorter 33:02
And so that’s the other line. Is that it becomes very gray. And, you know, so the clients that I did become friends with, it was like, Hey, I’m going to this party, you know, you want to come? Sure. Well, can you, can you just throw my hair in a quick pony? Tell them, like, well, hold on, are you hiring me or am I? Like, what am i What’s What are we doing? You know? And so then not to say, you know, that happened so, but I did feel at one point that, you know, maybe a lot of my generosity was also being taken advantage of. So I just, you know, from but again, I was young, you know, getting into the industry, and I was being asked to, you know, hang out with these people. And I’m like, Yeah, I’m gonna do that. But then I learned, okay, well, if everyone’s not going, then I guess maybe I don’t need to go either, but if everyone’s going, I’ll go, you know, and yeah, so I just had to cut the friendship part of it off, and we can have a very cordial business relationship.

Chris Baran 33:53
I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using I hate working in a small, cramped box, yet, I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from, meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space. With artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities. With artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus, you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out artist on go, built for stylists serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50.

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yeah, and I it’s interesting on when you have those kind of relationships with people, etc, but what? So I want to just jump back into a little bit about on the hair side, you know? And I’m gonna guess this will be kind of a mixed, mixed in question, because I think there’s this, like I talked about hairdressers and how they the for manufacturers and they didn’t get along. And there was this. There’s this time in, in in our industry, was hairdressers, black hairdressers, and hairdressers that did white hair were separated. Right? Still are, it’s still Yeah. And so I’d like you to speak to that, like, just on on this thing, because I know that you were involved in and helping L’Oreal get into Congress so that they’re passing things about how that coily, curly hair has to be taught in schools as well and in salons. Yeah. So can you talk to that point literally about, how do we, how do we get our industry so it’s not black hair, it’s not white hair, it’s not gray, yellow, brown hair, whatever. It’s just hair.

Tippi Shorter 36:32
Yeah, so verbiage is probably the first part of it. You know, so notoriously, just like churches, because churches are quite segregated as well. Obviously there are quite a few churches, particularly mega churches, that are multicultural, but and there are salons that are multicultural, but the reason, in my opinion, that salons were separated segregated is because of the education and or lack of education. And this goes on both fronts, and I’m going to say this, and this is one of the really big pushes for texture change, because I have gotten kickback on some classes like tippy, you know. Why are you teaching, you know, white stylists how to work on curly hair? I said, you know, in beauty school, as a black woman, I actually did not know how to learn how to work on white hair, because every time a client would walk into the salon who was a person of color, they were always sent to me. So I never got the experience in the practice on hair that wasn’t like mine. And same thing for my counterpart, you know, the friend who is a white woman, who every time a client would walk in who had hair similar to her, she would get that client. So I’m always getting clients that look like me, and she’s always getting clients that look like her. So when you go into salons, you go to the salon of the clients that you’re familiar working with, you know. And so that’s exactly what happens. And so, you know, with texture of change, it’s really not about teaching a person with not textured hair to work on textured hair. It’s making sure that the person without textured hair knows how to also work on textured hair. So when people come into the schools to get their hair done, it’s divided evenly. You know, the person with the curly hair, the stylist with the curly hair can learn how to work on the person with straight hair, and the person with straight hair can learn how to work on the person with the curly hair. It’s not just about teaching one group of people something. It’s about teaching everybody everything, so everybody can do everything, and that’s really what that’s about. And then the more comfortable stylist, black, white, Latino, like all the you know, all the shades become familiar and comfortable working on all hair textures. Then the places they choose to work, then become more diverse. The salons themselves become more diverse. But because there hasn’t been education, you’re only you’re just gravitating to your what you’re familiar with and what you know. And that really, truly stems from, you know, the school experience, and school experiences like, you know, by the way, because I am a black woman, doesn’t know me, did not mean I knew how to work on black hair. Let’s be super clear. And also the term black hair, white hair, that’s That’s silly, because I’m a black woman. However, my hair is very similar to women who are Polynesian, you know? So I’ve got friends who are white women who have hair that are very similar to mine. So it’s not about, she’s a white girl. She’s got white hair. No, it’s about texture, and what type of texture Do you have? So it’s really not about white and black and all of that type of stuff as we move forward. And, you know, really try to, like, lift and redirect this narrative and the verbiage, yeah, yeah. And I think that’s so what came to my mind. I.

Chris Baran 39:59
I, you know, I’m getting at that age where I’m visiting doctors a little bit more than I was way back when.

Same, Yeah, unfortunately, however, but if you look at the at the field of doctors, you know is they have to generalize first and know everything. They have to know about the body, they have to know about all different areas of it, and then they specialize all of us from the you know, like, I’m from that baby boomer era your specialty was based on just what you did, just like we’re just talking about, yeah, but imagine our industry, especially, I think if people knew the difference in potential revenue dealing with a textured market versus just, you know, dealing with somebody with straight and wavy hair, etc, is that there’s so much more money to be made

in the services. And I, you know, every time I’ve seen somebody that has coily hair, they’re willing to spend anything on their hair buy the products that you recommend, etc. So I think if people just saw the potential. Let me add this. The reason why that’s the case is because of the lack of education in the beauty space. The more education so you know if, if you’re in a town and there’s 30 hairsty hair, 30 hair salons, but only one hair salon knows how to work on texture, that hair salon can charge whatever they want, right?

Tippi Shorter 41:44
However, you know, the goal is, is to not have to price gouge women and men with textured hair because no one has the education. The goal is to make sure that the woman with curly hair does not have to spin more than the woman with straight hair. Now, granted, you know, if you and I go to the salon, I definitely should be charged more. And I definitely, you know, it’s going to take more time because I’ve got more hair than you, but I shouldn’t be charged more just because I have curly hair, right? I should be charged more because the amount of time that’s going to take is going to be because my hair is thicker, my hair is denser. By the way, if my hair were naturally straight, it would still be thick. It still would be dense. In that instance, I would still be charged more, right? But we’ve got women with textured hair, who’ve got shorter hair, who’ve got fine hair, and who should not be charged more just because the stylist doesn’t know how to work on their hair. So all I’m saying is, is that, yes, I agree with you in terms of the earning potential, but the it’s kind of an unfair scenario, and that’s because the stylist doesn’t there aren’t enough stylists to make the pricing more fair, right? So if you think about those things, the same, same 30 salons that I was just speaking about in a town, if 30 of them all specialized in balayage, there couldn’t be one salon that could hike up their prices, because there’s competition, right? And so we want to make sure that textured hair has those same options, so that women with curly hair feel comfortable going to a salon and not feeling like there’s, you know, going to have to be price gouged as a result. So,

so yes, to what you’re saying, there are amazing earning potentials, but it’s what the earning potential is, is just for the sake of getting a whole new group of clients, not because,

not because you can charge this client more, it’s just now they’re, you’re, oh, you’re opening up your world to 65% more clients than you did before.

Chris Baran 43:43
Yeah, and so thank you for that, because what I was basing mine on, my those figures on, was I saw a figure and it was a few years back, but they said that the market for textured hair was at that time. And I’m, I don’t believe I’m making this up. It was $7 billion yeah, $7 billion and that’s what I was marking on and what I love that you said that the the equalizer in there is a four letter word, time. You said it. It’s time. It’s just like, if, if I walk in and I’m saying, look at it takes, you know, my hair, my appointment time is an is 30 minutes, then that third, that slot should be based on how much your revenue you’re going to create within that 30 minutes. And that’s the amount you charge for that 30 minutes. And if it’s and if your rank is higher. Maybe you can put that up based on experience, etc, but it’s, excuse me, I think exactly, regardless of who you are, if you come in and you’re, you’re 130 minute slot, then your price is this, if it’s four, 430 minute slots, then it’s four times that that exactly. Yeah.

Tippi Shorter 44:59
And so to that point, two things for that. That’s why education is important. Because what’s happening as I’m going around and I’m teaching the air cut, which is a curly cutting technique that I created, or just, you know, basic curly techniques, because you’re unfamiliar with it, and it’s brand new to you, it’s going to take you longer, right? So, but as a result, that clients can end up having to pay more time anyway, but that’s just because of the lack of education. So once again, the client, the client, is being price gouged, if you will. And the other part of that is, yeah, more product, more time, more more more dollar signs added to that bill and but all things being equal, the stylists have to work efficiently and know what they’re doing. They can’t, you know, just like, Oh, I just learned yesterday. So it’s gonna take me five hours to do, you know, a 2030, minute service. So, you know, it’s a tricky, it’s a tricky scenario. And you know, hopefully, you know, we’re definitely not in a place where it’s all things being equal, but hopefully we’ll be getting there soon. Yeah, do you and I mean, I agree with you 100% that education is a thing that will set you free. You know, I’ve heard some people say knowledge will set you free. I don’t believe that application sets you free knowledge

Chris Baran 46:21
you want. But like you said, it whether it’s whether you’re learning coily hair, straight hair, whether you’re learning to ride a bike, whether you’re learning how to how to write with a pen, it takes more time at the beginning, and you have to charge accordingly. Not I mean, I don’t mean said I’m learning how to do this the first time, therefore it takes me four times longer. There are times I charge form I have to charge my level that I’m at exactly, yeah, and I think that’s where all this comes from. So that really jumps into my kind of the next phase of what I have and I and it might not even be a fair one.

How long do you think that it’s going to take us, generation wise, to equalize this.

Tippi Shorter 47:04
Well, let me just say this. I’m so ecstatic that brands are really looking at this seriously and are finally doing the leg work that they gave lip service to 510 years ago. And I say that because, you know, there have been brands that have been around for quite some time that, oh, yeah, I have a curly product. And, you know, we serve as all clients because I’ve got a curly product. Well, that doesn’t work. You know, we all know that one one product doesn’t fit all, and that’s the case for straight hair also, right? So

legislation is being passed, and it’s slow going, but at least it’s going so I, you know, I’d love to say by the end of 2026, you know, all states will be on board. But then here’s the other part. It’s just legislation being passed now the schools actually have to have a curriculum that they’re teaching. So I don’t know if the texture is delivered to these schools. I’m not really sure on that end, I’m kind of just on, you know, on one side of that. I’m not on the back end of that. Now, for the stylist that are actively, you know, in salon, now, you know, I’ve been so wonderfully surprised at all the stylists of all different backgrounds, all shades, all creeds that are coming to texture classes and really wanting to learn, and who have been hairdressers for, you know, one year up to 30 years. And they just really want, you know, something. They want to make sure that they are, that they are hair stylists, meaning they do all hair. And that’s, you know, that’s kind of one of the things I say. In order to be a hair stylist, you have to know how to do all hair. You can’t be a, you know, I’m just a some of the hair stylist, yeah, you know, is that on your business card? Hi, my name is tippy, and I’m a some of the hair

Chris Baran 48:59
I can do. I can do your hair, but not yours, you know, yeah, what I like, what I like about this tippy is, if we could just get All the hairdressing industry to up their curiosity game and lower their fear game. I don’t know if that’s I’m saying that way, but when it comes to they’re just terrified that they might make a mistake if I’ve got a coyly haired client coming in, and I don’t know how to do it, so they may pass the client on, or they just try their very best or whatever. But I think if people would just get the be curious and then go to a class, you know, because that’s what’s gonna that’ll solve, to solve your fear side. Because, like we just said, that knowledge is fear. You get the knowledge. You’ll get the you’ll get some of. Application, and especially if you’re doing it as well as learning it, but then you have to apply it when you get out. Otherwise, it’s just information gone. Yeah, absolutely. And let me say, you know, there’s so many reasons why a person does first of all, everyone’s not a lifelong learner. There are so many people that are like, Oh, I’m doing what I’m doing. I’m making a lot of money. Why do I need to change? Okay, I’m doing what I’m doing. Why do I need to learn anything else? I don’t have room in my books for anything else.

Tippi Shorter 50:33
You know, there’s so many ideas or perspectives or thoughts behind why a person doesn’t want to learn. But you know, when you stop learning, you stop growing, and you know, you stop evolving. Because hair trends change. And not to say texture is a trend, I just mean, you know, there are, you know, maybe the new trend is, you know, everything everybody now wants to be curly again, you know? So people with straight hair want perms again, which, by the way, that is happening. So damn it, you’re giving me all these segues. Yeah, that’s happening, you. So my salon called hair love here in Kansas City, we are curl specialists, so we primarily work with people who’ve already got a form of texture, waves, curls and coils, however, you would be surprised at the amount of calls and emails we get for people with straight hair who want us to give them curl. And it’s not a service that we offer yet, and we’re really kind of like debating if that is something we want to do, because love, obviously taking care of texture. So yeah, it might be a service that we end up adding, but, yeah, it’s here. So are you, are Are you not going to, you know, do that if your client asks, what happens? You just pass the client on, you know, and if it’s already client that you’re already doing. So I do understand to your your previous point, you know, getting someone curious in order to, you know, making more money makes anybody curious, right? But I just want to make sure the stylist is clear on, you’re making more money not because you’re necessarily trying charging the client more. You’re making more money because you’re now opening up the field for additional clients, period. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I always call them, you know, like, when I’m whenever you’re doing something that you

Chris Baran 52:27
you know, the ones that you do a head of hair, and then you look back at the day, and that’s the one you remember, I remember in, you know, and that’s when you would get around at the dinner table. Oh, man, you should have seen this head of hair that I did today, not from an ego, not from looking up Mike being being big. It’s just being proud, you know. And I think when you can master something like that, and then talk about it in the back room, talk about it in your friends, be so excited about it that you want to tell somebody about the great things that you did that day. And I, I look forward to our industry when this great divide that we have in that as I’m glad that it’s getting narrower, but it would be just nice if it was leveled. You know, everything was the same, yeah, yeah.

Tippi Shorter 53:18
And then, you know, so you’ve got the stylist part of that. But then there’s also the client part, right? So you got the client. So my salon is a diverse salon, and we’ve got women who will sit in the chair, woman who maybe look like me, who will sit in a chair of a woman who doesn’t look like me, and they’re like, can you do my hair? You know, I’m like, they’re in the salon, so 100% so then now you’d also have the the fear and the anxiety of the client as well. So I think it’s, you know, it’s gonna take time,

Chris Baran 53:55
yeah, and it’s not gonna happen immediately. And, like, even we talked about, if you get it into the schools, generationally, that generation is going to be more receptive to it. And then let’s it’s just like an attrition the more generation, then the next generation comes in, the next generation in, and that’s the equalizer. And I think that I love by 2026 we can get something in there, but I think it’s going to take a few generations of hairdressers before it really starts to equalize, but we’ll be making headway on that. Yeah, agreed. I totally agree.

Tippy, I don’t know where the hell time goes. It’s we talked about how you’re you have celebrity, friends, relationships, family, people that come in and it’s like you haven’t seen them for a year, and then it’s just like you’re right back in here, and I’m looking at the time going, I think I just, we just did introduction, so it’s been amazing. And I just want to jump into our rapid fire and, and so just, I’m going to throw stuff out at you, and just first thing that comes to your brain, nice, quick, short answers. And if. It Do you don’t like them? Say, pass, I look at your work that you’ve done. And I challenge everybody to go onto tippy website and just look at not only the beautiful hair, but the faces underneath there that you will recognize. So I challenge you on that, but I see you you as hugely a creative person. So what turns you on in the creative process,

Tippi Shorter 55:26
transformation and

Chris Baran 55:29
what stifles creativity,

Tippi Shorter 55:33
ego,

Chris Baran 55:36
things in life that you love the most

Tippi Shorter 55:41
joy

Chris Baran 55:43
and the thing in life that you dislike the most

Tippi Shorter 55:48
conflict,

Chris Baran 55:52
things that you love the most about our industry, the

Tippi Shorter 55:58
unlimited potential

Chris Baran 56:00
and the thing that you dislike most about our industry,

Tippi Shorter 56:09
I want to, I hope I say this clearly, but the asteroid bastardizing is that a word

yeah of the industry, and I’m going to probably take a little bit of time of this, but there’s so many states I feel better are on regularly or undoing the license process. And so there’s a lot of non professional, professional hairdressers, and they’re creating all these rules. And so now there’s this big you know, should I come to the salon? Why is why? Why don’t? Why are they asking me to not shampoo my hair. I’m like, who’s what salon is asking that? Oh, no, no, the girl that works from her house, okay, well, then different conversation, different hairdresser, you know, so I say the bastardizing of our industry. Yeah,

Chris Baran 56:53
person that you wish you could meet,

Tippi Shorter 57:02
living.

Chris Baran 57:04
Anybody. I’ll

Speaker 1 57:07
go with limit living, and I’ll see Michelle Obama. Oh, wow. Me too.

Chris Baran 57:13
I’ll hear something in something that people don’t know about you. I

Unknown Speaker 57:17
uh,

Tippi Shorter 57:23
there’s quite a few things. Uh, can I give you a couple? Yeah, I don’t know if people don’t know this about me, because I feel like I’ve said these a few times before. I used to dance on Soul Train. No, um, yeah. I am on a unreleased and then re released after he died. Album, I’m on a Tupac song,

so it was unreleased. But when a person passes, they read, you know, they release all the things and so, yeah, and the last thing is, since I went to school of Visual Arts photography,

so I’m very passionate about photography and videography. Now I see why in your photographs,

Chris Baran 58:09
a month off and giving you, granting you a month off. Where would you go? What would you do?

Tippi Shorter 58:14
Fun fact, I’m about to take a month off. My daughter graduated high school, yeah.

And where are you going? So we just sold our home, and we have had a motor home for three years, and we’re going to be traveling around the country in our motor home. I love it. I love it,

Chris Baran 58:33
a thing that terrifies you.

Tippi Shorter 58:39
Oh, gosh. I’m about

to come back to that. Okay, I can’t think of something right off the bat. I’ll give you an I’ll give you another easy one.

Chris Baran 58:51
Your favorite curse word,

Tippi Shorter 58:54
shit,

Chris Baran 58:57
favorite comfort food,

Tippi Shorter 59:00
chunky monkey ice cream, Ben and Jerry’s,

Chris Baran 59:04
something in the in, I don’t know even if this was possible, but something in the industry that you haven’t done, but you want To, I

Tippi Shorter 59:15
haven’t entered Naha. I want to,

Chris Baran 59:21
yeah, well, you and I are gonna have to hook up on that. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 59:28
the

Chris Baran 59:30
if you in life and I won’t take, let me tell you what I won’t take on this one. Okay, I’m gonna, here’s the question. I’ll tell you what I won’t take, okay, is if you had a do over in life,

then what would it be? And I won’t what I won’t take is I wouldn’t change anything, because I wouldn’t be the person that I am today. But if you could change that’s easy answer, right? Yeah, that’s the cop out answer.

Tippi Shorter 59:58
Um, I. If I had a do over I probably would not have spent, wasted the one semester going to college. I went to LBCC is for criminal justice. I would not have wasted that semester doing that. I would have want gone straight into beauty school. Wow,

Chris Baran 1:00:29
I’m going to take that cut out and we’re going to play that with for beauty schools.

Tippi Shorter 1:00:36
I love it. Okay, now here’s another one tomorrow. You couldn’t do hair or had nothing to do with the industry. What would you

do that’s literally happening, by the way, I told you that. No, I’m just kidding. I’m kidding. Well, no, not, not that have anything to do with the industry. I still have a business to run. Um, I Okay, tomorrow? Can it be like what happens next month? Because I can tell you for real, bro. All right, so another fun fact about me people don’t know is I’m super passionate about music and DJ Inc, and I am going to be creating salon mixes, because there’s, you know, I’m just thinking about the dynamic in my salon of my age and on my younger team, and how the music is like, such a point of contention. So I’m going to start doing these, like, fun mashups of like old school beats with like new school lyrics, and it’s going to be called the Beauty Blender. So I’m literally going to be DJing and creating mixes while I’m, we’re traveling around the country. I’m, I’m sorry, I want to be your first customer. If I’m not already, I want to be your first customer. I love it, and I’ve got one more, one more, just one more thing that I want to ask, one more question. But

Chris Baran 1:01:49
if people want to get a hold of you, they want to, we want to have a class with you. They want to sign on to some of the things that you have. What do they do? Where do they go?

Tippi Shorter 1:01:59
Multiple things on my Instagram, there is a link for a few things if you’re looking to schedule an appointment with me. So as I mentioned, I am in Kansas City, that’s where my home base is, my salon. I am going to be traveling around the country, and actually, not just for a month. I’m actually gonna be traveling around the country for a year and and I’m gonna be doing pop up, so you’re going to have to be on tour. So I’m going to be taking appointments in Atlanta, New York, Miami, obviously, Kansas City, places like that. So if you’re looking at, well, you all are hairdressers, so you’re not looking to take appointments with me, but if you are, you can find that link on my Instagram page. My education for Mizani is on my Instagram page. I am the globe artistic director with Mizani and I created a curl cutting method called the air cut. And so you are that link is on that page to find out where those classes are. I’m also a L’Oreal professional color artist, color educator. So you can find that link actually is not on my page, but by the time this comes out, that link will all be on my page as well. So if you’re looking for a color class, you’ll find that there. And then, last but not least, if you are looking for any type of mentorship, or just, you know, want to grab a cup cup of tea and, you know, just sit and shoot the breeze, or just kind of listen to me like rock out on my DJ turntables, you can hit me up on my Instagram. Just DM me so at tippy shorter, love it, and to be clear, but before this makes it on your page, if they if you want to get a hold of tippy, all you’d have to do is go to your L’Oreal representative and speak to some of the sales consultants or and just say, I want tippy in to the salon, and they’ll make sure it happens. So absolutely, last one,

Chris Baran 1:03:46
if you had one wish for our industry, what would that be? So,

Tippi Shorter 1:03:54
which is so funny, I feel like I maybe answered this earlier, and I think this would really help how parents of the new generation of hair stylists feel about it. But I really wish the professionalism of our industry

becomes a bit more elevated and really kind of back to that bastardizing of the industry. I really, you know, there was a point where, you know, when I first got introduced to the industry, I would see, you know, I used to go to shows, and, you know, the people on stage were like, rock stars to me, and that’s what really made me want to get into it. But my mom was like, we know, you know, she’s just thinking back to, you know, her and I being in a salon when I was five, and her hairstyles, complaining about, you know, not making enough money, complaining about her feet hurting all the time, complaining about, you know, the veins and the this, the that, all the things and, you know, not ever having any clients. And my mom, just like she didn’t want to have that complaining life for me. And so I would love for our industry to really elevate a.

The Amazing, positive things and put them out, um, beyond outside of our industry, because we in the industry, we know how great our industry is, but I’d love for people outside of our industry to know how great our industry is, yeah, yeah. And sometimes just, I think maybe we brought a little bit of it on ourselves. But I you know the other thing I wish to your point, because I’m so attuned with you on that that sometimes I just wish the way that the media and the movie industry portrays us,

Chris Baran 1:05:32
they would just find out who the real people is, not some of the just the weird people you know,

Tippi Shorter 1:05:39
literally, the character. It’s a caricature of what we do, and it’s, it’s quite stereotypical and, you know, but that’s kind of, that’s a whole different story about films, because that’s what, that’s how that happens there anyway. Yeah, exactly. But I just think if, if people, I will say that with the when tabloid ish type of magazines came out, you know, they were starting to feature and highlight celebrity hairstylists and, you know, and with Fashion Week, you know, you’re learning about people backstage. So I really wish that there was a positive consider our hairstylist shows, but there’s so much drama on those. So I just wish that there were, like, some positive types of things that really like highlight, like what we do, yeah, and maybe that’s just all of our industry. Is what we got to do is we have to be more positive. We’ve got to be more kind. We’ve got to be more respectful to one another, you know, and understand that we come from, you know, if we’re coming from a place of abundance where there’s enough work for everybody, instead of just trying to be come from scarcity. And I just want about me. You know, absolutely I think that we could. This is such an amazing industry that

Chris Baran 1:06:49
I just think that it’s up to us. If we want to do it’s going to be up to us, not anybody else. I agree. I agree. Tippi,

I’ve got a new best friend here, and I know I just whether you want it or not, I don’t care. I’m not taking no for an answer. I feel like I’ve got a new bestie here. So I just want to say thank you for your time, for your energy, and just more importantly, just for being you. So it was a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. I’m so glad we finally got the opportunity to do this. This has been so much fun. You’re incredible. And thank you so much, and thank you for allowing me to share my story. Oh, well, that’s what everybody wants to hear. Love, yeah, in the meantime, just thank you so much.

Tippi Shorter 1:07:29
Thanks.

Chris Baran 1:07:32
Thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow head case. Head cases is produced by cut action media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz we’re