ep123 – Celene Dupuis Pt 2

Welcome back to Headcases! Part 1 of our conversation with Celene Dupuis was incredible – she came in strong, busting industry myths and dropping leadership wisdom that every salon pro needs to hear.

In Part 2, we’re picking up right where we left off. Celene continues to challenge the status quo, offering real talk, practical strategies, and powerful insights to help you grow as a leader and build a sustainable, high-performing business. It’s time to rethink the way our industry works – Let’s dive back in with Celene Dupuis!

Show Notes

• 2:32 • Myth 6 • “I’m not a numbers person” or “I’m an artist, not a salesperson.”
• 4:30 • Myth 7 • “I must be a bad leader because a team member moved to a different salon.”
• 25:28 • Myth 8 • “My clients only want me to do their service.”
• 40:02 • Myth 9 • “You can’t earn a good living in the beauty industry.”
• 44:10 • Myth 10 • “You have to stay competitive to survive.”

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire, and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. To Well,

Chris Baran 0:26
welcome back to another episode of Headcases, and I’ve got to admit that today’s guest is a repeat offender, and while we’ve only had a few that have been on numerous times we’ve definitely had her back. And yes, she’s that good. We ran out of time on the first podcast about beauty industry myths busting, and I’m absolutely thrilled to have her back on for part two. So so just give you a bit of a review on who she is. Celene Dupuis is an award winning entrepreneur, a leadership coach and sought after keynote speaker. She’s built a thriving high performance business while mentoring leaders, entrepreneurs and teams to create sustainable success, to bust more industry myths. Let’s get into this week’s repeat head case, Celene Dupuis, Celene, here we are with part two. You know, when I was thinking about it, just last we did that, that first five, we talked about the first five myths that there is in our beauty industry and how some of them are all just disabling stories, etc. But when I got away from it, because I was because I was disappointed we couldn’t do all of them and but I’m I got away and I said, You know what? I’m kind of glad that we didn’t do all of them at the same time, just from a digestion point. So number one, welcome back. I think now, just as as so you know you, you’re only, I think you’re not of this these is 123 that we’ve done so far, and there’s only four people that we’ve had back on twice, oh, and three of them we had on at the same time. So really, you’re the only the second person that has been back twice. So, and I think it’s just because you have so much to offer. So welcome back.

Celene Dupuis 2:24
Well, thank you. You’re feeding my competitive spirit, so I appreciate that.

Chris Baran 2:29
Well, actually, I think is that. I think that sets us up with this rate of whale. So, I mean, I’m going to encourage listen anybody, if you haven’t, if you’re watching this one and you haven’t gone back, go back and watch the other one. That’ll be just labeled, 10 myths in our beauty industry that we want to bust. So we’re back, and we’ve got five more to bust with you. So let’s just jump into it. So what? Tell me what? What’s another one of your favorite myths that are out there?

Celene Dupuis 2:58
Yeah, I love this. Thanks, Chris. And you know, as I get into this to the sixth one, what I would say is, like, so, like, what’s the big deal about even busting these myths? Like, why are we even doing it? And the thing that I always like an implementation tool. And it’s like, here’s the deal. If you’re a hairdresser or you’re a salon owner, it’s like, turn and teach this. Like that. Like, that’s the implementation tool. Because, I mean, we want, we want you to really hear this and to, you know, understand how to grow your business. And so this one hits hard. The sixth one, some people will, will say it this way, I’m not a numbers person, or I’ve heard it, or I’ve heard saying, like, I’m an artist, I’m not a salesperson, yeah. So I think that one is huge in our industry, because I think again, being people pleasers, a lot of people have a hard time. Number one stylist charging their worth. I think that like or or emotionally discounting clients, right? And I think salon owners the same, like, the same thing goes often, you know, we’re afraid to, like, set profitable pricing, or put in systems, like, profitable back bar, profitable back bar. Basically, if you don’t know, is where you’re moving to a parts and labor, a parts and labor system, so that you’re not losing money on every every service. And to me, it’s shocking, like, less than 10% of salons break even or are profitable, right? And I mean, there’s a reason, and it’s because, like, the beauty industry, we’re bleeding hearts, and that’s beautiful. But also, like, money isn’t it doesn’t have to be an icky thing. Money is a tool, yeah, and so I think when you have more money, you can do more amazing things for your community. You can give more people job opportunities, you know, stylists. If you make more money, you can get involved, you can give back to charity, you can do all sorts of things. So I think we are sales people like we are. Are, and it’s more than just selling the home care recommendations that sit at the front of your salon, right? We are selling looks and trends. We are selling a culture. We’re selling, if you’re a salon owner, you’re selling, you’re selling a lifestyle. You’re selling, you know, a community, you’re selling a career, essentially. And so I think when you really understand what it is that you sell, I think that when you shift the mindset again, the first podcast, we talked about the Results Model and your self concept. And you know, if you struggle with sales, you need to look at your self concept a lot of times. People who struggle with sales, it’s like, well, I’m worried. You think about it. Experience you had, you’re like that used car salesman, like they were so pushy. And so oftentimes it’s like, maybe you’re afraid to seem pushy. Well, that’s your self image. You’re worried how people will perceive you, right? Or maybe you don’t feel confident enough in your abilities to make expert recommendations. Like, I know, like Tiktok makeup artists, I’ll ask all my staff, how many of you have bought something off Tiktok, like, some makeup or something from Tiktok, because you were influenced? Well, all of them said they were. I’m like, Why did you buy it? They’re like, well, they’re the expert at that. Like, well, how much money have you put into your career? Are you not an expert? So why aren’t you making recommendations that are going to solve the challenges that your guests see? And those recommendations could be more than just a bottle of shampoo. It could be a treatment in the salon. It could be a scalp a Scalp Therapy like it goes beyond just a physical bottle of shampoo.

Chris Baran 6:40
Yeah, I there’s a story, and I know you’ve probably heard it. I’ve told it 1000 times. I got it from somebody. I didn’t make it up. But there’s this story of Pablo Picasso sitting at a bus stop, and somebody asked him to do a doodle. And he did it, passed it over to him, and he said, thank you. And Pablo said, Jeff, you’re welcome to be thank I’ll be $25,000 and he said, $25,000 only took you five minutes. He said, You’re not paying for the five minutes to took it in. You’re paying for the 25 years it took me to learn how to do that in five minutes. And and to the point, I’m not we’re not saying that you should automatically charge $25,000 but your point, and I’ve heard you say this many times, we don’t realize our worth, and we don’t put ourselves at the expert level when we are, you know. And I think that’s the biggest thing. And I know you know this. There’s all these archetypes that we have just meaning, what’s your sort of in person? Are you the warrior? Are you the caregiver? Are you the Jester? Are you, you know, whomever? And I think you’ve nailed it on the top, right on the head, when you you’ve been talking about, we’re people pleasers and we’re caregivers. But that doesn’t mean you sell everything away. You know, sell is not a four letter word. You know you’re not doing harm to people. You can, you can have somebody come in, and if you just listen for cues and solving a problem, you know, like, if I tell people everywhere, and I’ve had people do it to me, if you can solve my problem, I’ll give you whatever I can to get that problem solved. And it’s not about the exact dollar, but if you’re just selling something that is top line. Oh, this is a shampoo you need. Well, that’s a sale. I’ll run away from it. But if you can sell here’s the shiny hair you’re missing, here’s, here’s, here’s the look that you’ve always wanted. I’ll give you another story. I just got this one. Marjorie is who books all this stuff. Is listening. And then I just, I had a client. I was at a I was doing a seminar, and I cut using this one technique. I cut this woman’s hair, and she’s been after me for years to I finally sent her the pictures of how to cut it, and she said, nobody’s been able to cut my hair. Would you? Would you just do the cut on a mannequin and send it to me so I can show it to hairdressers and how to do it. And I’ve just, that’s my livelihood. No, I can’t, you know, the same way is, you know, yes, you can teach your client to how to blow dry their hair, but you’re not going to teach the rest of the world how to do it unless you have some income coming back. Life is sales. So, you know, I think the sooner that we can get over that, that we’ve if you’re, if you have a partner, you you make somebody had to make a sale somewhere along the line. So I think that’s, that’s always the big one that’s in there. I’m creative, therefore I’m not in sales.

Celene Dupuis 9:34
Yeah. And I mean, I always say it’s like the Pretty Woman effect, or if, if you were a Selena fan. It’s like the key scenes in both of those movies are the women are shopping and the sales people assume, based on who they are, that they can’t afford it. And it’s just like, every time you don’t offer full service to your customers, you’re in, like we’ve heard it, you’re in. In their pocket, and it’s like, well, I don’t want to tell them about that treatment, or I don’t want to, because, again, that’s back to yourself concept. You’re worried about what they’re going to think, instead of giving them the giving them the information and the autonomy to make their own decision on what is important to them. Yeah,

Chris Baran 10:16
no, dead, true. And again, like you say, it’s mindset and and I think once people, I remember being at a at a show, and they, this was when I was in Saskatoon as well. And there was a manufacturer that came into town, and they said they were doing a business course, and they said, Bring in your books. So I brought in my books and Reed, and I had gone on a holiday and and they looked at it. And this, I remember this business coach analyzed the books because you had to sign up for get your books analyzed. And he said, Look, he says, The only reason why you made money while you were on holiday was retail, because you had a 30% serve or retail to service ratio. Yes, that’s where your money came from. So you could go on that holiday and so, but it’s, it’s the part in our culture. It part of the culture was, how could you find what the client needed and what they wanted? Then all you had to do is recommend something that they wanted, not something that you think that they need. Yeah, if I’ve got a problem I can solve it, then I’ll gladly pay for whatever that is. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Interesting. So we’ve, now, we’ve we’ve done away, and now we know we’re not only artists, we we can be sales people. What’s the next myth?

Celene Dupuis 11:39
I think this one hits a little bit on what we touched on last time about, you know, when somebody moves on from your space, and I think particularly, I don’t know that this translates for a stylist, but I think they need to understand what it feels like to be us. And that’s like when team moves on, like when somebody quits or leaves your business. We can internalize it and tell ourselves that it’s because I’m not a good leader. Yeah, and I think what, what I would hope we talked about, like, career path and things like that. And if you’re not happy, like, I think in my business, I try and create always the next level. Like, literally, prices are based on demand. So if you’re in demand, and people keep paying for your price, and you’re fully booked, and you’re hitting all your KPIs, and you’re growing, you’re you’re, I will never cap your price, right? Um, right, like that, that will always continue to move, so you can always continue to earn more. But we have a lot of stylists that move into leadership positions in the salon, and actually, I was on a coaching call yesterday, and the stylist, or one of the salon owners on the call was like, Well, I haven’t implemented this yet because I don’t have the right managers in place. Like, stop waiting for your managers. Like, let a team member. Like, when we make this space, it’s amazing. Like, my stylist, like, rise up. Like I have a stylist that is part of our leadership team that actually runs all of our inventory or weekly ordering. She does our orders off our budget, like, it’s incredible. I have another one who runs our entire bridal business. Is like a like, deals with all of it. And neither of them are managers. They’re compensated for their roles. But I mean, when team team members move on, it’s doesn’t mean you’re a bad leader. What I would ask myself first is, did I create that career path for them? Because not everyone wants to be just a service provider, right? Like they want to be rise as leaders and have fulfillment in other areas. So do I have the career path available? Right? And, you know, maybe they’re just at a new season in their life, and it has nothing to do with your leadership or the other side of that is that maybe they don’t want to grow anymore. Yeah, what I’ve realized is, like, I’m on a life mission that, like, I don’t think I ever will stop growing. I’m always like, Where can I go next? What class can I take? But not everybody’s like me, and that’s what’s hard for salon owners to remember. So if you’re a stylist, you need to just remember that like, you know you don’t have to be exactly like your salon owner, and that’s okay. You just need to communicate what you need. And if I’ve grown somebody as far as I can grow them, and I continue to push them too hard, then they may not feel like that is the place for me like it, because then they feel like they’re failing me all the time. And I realized that I used to push people probably harder than they wanted to be pushed. So you can’t coach someone without getting permission first, you have to have their buy in.

Chris Baran 14:45
We talked about this, you know, it was like months and months ago, but I know that we talked about the fact of that people we have to, you know, here’s the point. Part that I think is so important is that people will live up to what they want, not what we want for them. So if we set boundaries, and I in talking to, you know, literally throughout the country, to salon owners, I talked to them, and they feel it’s their responsibility to set the goals of what they should have, rather than saying, What’s your goals? What do you want? And if you can say, I want, all I want right now is I want to make X amount of dollars per year. I want to work so many days per week. And then from now, while that wouldn’t have worked for me at one time, I would say, Now fine, I had the great fortune to have somebody give me a manual of a very famous company that’s out there. And inside there, they said that this is for salons, not a manufacturer. This was salon. And they said inside there, you have to have your worker bees, the ones that just want to get by, that bring in the money that still do good work, quality work that meets your standards in the salon. And then you have your artistic team, your artistic directors, your that push and grow and encourage and inspire other people to want to get better, but I think if we as owners want to you say, here’s what you have to do, then you’re either going to set them up so you’re like you said. You’re living them. This is I’m failing you. What we should do is say, What do you want? So we have that help to get them where they are, so they don’t feel like they’re failing, and I think that’s the biggest shift that I see. So is there? I know we talked, we’ve been talking for years about COVID, and the shift that happened do, what do you How did you feel is that some of the things we’re talking about from COVID, the life balance and so on. What I mean,

Celene Dupuis 17:05
I think it’s certainly brought I think anytime somebody goes through something traumatic, and I I say this because one of the things I teach on is like, how to rise through trauma, because I’ve had, like, an unprecedented amount of of trauma that I’ve dealt with, and so I think that it brings up, like, the what’s really important in life. I think that, I think also, I mean, we’ve got a new generation of people out there. Like, I’m 42 I think that’s still very young, but already, like, when I’m hiring, I’ll hire people that are, like, 19 years old, like, a majority of my staff is between probably 21 and 24 I would say 75% of my staff is there and already, like, they can’t relate to the same things I can relate to, yeah? And I think a lot of salon owners will be like, well, these kids today just don’t like to work my lawn. Yeah. And what I would say is, like, I mean, there’s many problems. All Generations Bring, bring problems to the table. Like, I think generation, generation X, millennials like, Generation X, like, really kind of put unhealthy ideas in our head about what you needed to do to be successful, right? And like, I mean, because a lot of what they did to be successful, sometimes was to their own detriment, of their own health. Like, I mean, I’m just looking at, like, my friends and their aging parents that, like, never took the time to take care of themselves, because it was just all about working raising the kids, right and then, and then I think, like, the millennials, like, remember the Generation X and the baby boomers were like, the millennials are lazy, and the millennials had their things. And now this new generation is like, we don’t wanna what. Who’s working 40 plus hours a week. Are you nuts, right? And so I think it’s just like, we need to adjust how we do business. How I do business now is not what worked for me when I opened 10 years ago, like last year, I launched flexible, flexible, flexible career paths. And so here’s the deal. Like, we offer two career paths. We offer a 30 hour a week. Or, if you’re a fast tracker, like you, you have goals like, maybe a lot of stylists are like, I want to hit that 100k I want to get down to, like, working my favorite hours, not working Saturdays, or specializing in just these services. You have to build demand for that. It doesn’t fall in your lap, right? So it’s like, if you work the 36 hour track, you’re going to get there a lot quicker. But we’re going to let you pick whether you want to work three, four or five days. And so, like, I don’t care if you’re if you’re in here five days a week or three days a week, it’s like, what’s happening when you are here. And so I think I’ve had to change and expand my mindset. And that went right down to my self esteem, because my self ideals, going back to the Results Model I surrounded myself with people. People. My dad was a business owner, and my dad and my uncle were like, well, you’re not successful if you only work nine to five. Like, if you don’t hustle, you’ll never make money. And I mean, they weren’t wrong. They were very successful. But it also, I mean, I haven’t worked in an industry you look at, I mean, I know both of us came from a Redken industry. When I look at really, really famous educators that are on the road all the time, many, a lot of that has come to sacrifices of their marriages, their relationships, their friendships. So like, how do we create? I don’t think there’s such thing as balance, but how do we create, and how do we be intentional about where we’re spending our time so we can create the life we want. And knowing that maybe this is a season where there’s going to be a sacrifice to my personal life, but then you have to make that commitment that you’re going to put more energy into that in the next season. Yeah,

Chris Baran 20:54
yeah. And that’s, I think that’s, that’s really the part of it is that, is that, like, I know that for me as, I think the only reason I’m a baby boomer, and it was just like, work as work, work, work, work, work, work, even at to the point of, you know, missing some of my kids, stuff, plays, games, events, yeah, and it still haunts me. My kids always say it doesn’t, but I, you know, it’s my, it’s my guilt that I still carry. However, I think that’s, that’s where we’ve got to change. I, as a boomer, can’t, or if I was a millennial, I can’t think of, this is the way that our era did it. I’ve got to, I, if I want to have a successful business, I’ve got to think about, how can I make it accommodating for you, but still make it so that I help and guide you to know that you’re just not going on a disaster route. So like you do, you’d help people say, look at if you’re going to do this, here’s what you’re going to make. You know, how can I guide you and help to keep you on so you get the time off you want you but you still when you’re working, you know, I always think that there’s this whole thing on balance that they say work life balance. I think that is the biggest pile of El Toro Papa that I’ve ever heard in my life. Was because there is no such thing as work life balance. You know, in fact, it was Stephen Hawking that said, you know, if, if there was balance in nature, we wouldn’t be here, because nature only evolves when there’s chaos or when there’s change. So I think that the baby boomers Hear me out that are out there is take it from this old, gray haired dude that knows, in order to stay relevant, I had to change with the times, and I can’t have the same management style, systems, etc, that I had back when I started. You know, some I’m just going to say, I’ll leave it at 30 years plus ago. So thank you. That’s I think we have to change. And

Celene Dupuis 22:59
you can have one stream extreme or the other. Like, I think also, like, the the generation that’s entering the workforce now. Like, you gotta know the first one to three years is going to be an investment period. And if you want to, like, I mean, yes, you can go low and slow, but it’s gonna, it’s gonna take you a lot longer. So it’s like, what are your goals? Do you want to take five years to really see the paycheck? Or do you want to see it in the first one to three? And I’ll coach to whatever you want. But also, it can’t cost me money to have you stay in my business. Exactly. I’m not running a charity like I mean, if my business fails, I’m personally liable for that loan. So I mean, I’m not here for fun and for shits and giggles, because I love to do it. I do love what I do, but it has to be a balance that works for everybody. Yeah,

Chris Baran 23:54
I agree 100% I heard this great story 100 years ago, they said that owning a business is is like a camel ride across the desert, and where you have people that want to make across the desert, and that would be the staff and the owner and the vehicle is the business. That’s the camel. And what makes you get across the desert is the water, which is the money. And when you put it all together, it means that everybody has to, when you get tired, you got to ride the camel, meaning you can take money out. It also means that everybody’s got a drink from the water. You can’t just the owner can’t just drink from the water, and then the the other people don’t, don’t survive, or you can’t give the camel some of the water, otherwise the business dies, etc. But. Everybody takes a turn walking, everybody takes a turn drinking, and everybody takes a turn riding and walking, then everybody gets successfully across and to the other journey. So I think that’s really what that’s about so well put I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using. I hate working in a small, cramped box, yet, I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space. With artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities. With artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus, you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out artist on go built for stylists serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50% on your rent to find out more. Go to B, I T, dot L y slash, artist on go CB, that’s B, I T, dot L y slash, artist on go CB, next myth. What other things can we bust in here?

Celene Dupuis 26:44
Oh, this one’s painful, but it’s that my clients only want me to do their service. Yeah, and I think this hits salon owners, and it hits stylists. And here’s the reason salon owners, a lot of a lot of us, a lot of you, I was there too. Like, if you can’t step out from behind the chair and your business is still successful, that means that, like, something’s needs to change. And if you don’t have a business coach, I would hire one now, yeah. And here’s the thing, is that one of the myths, or it’s all fear based, and one of the myths we tell ourselves is like, well, I can’t step out from behind the chair, because if I do, my clients will leave the salon, and because nobody can do their hair the way I can. But like, if you were, if you were coaching a soccer team, it’d be really hard to coach the team and be the star player on the field. Like, how do you do both right? And I think the challenge is, and here’s what I’m saying, I’m not saying it’s right. If you’re a salon owner, you can’t be behind the chair. What I am saying, though, is that if you don’t have time scheduled to work on your business, that’s going to start suffering and so and also, you’re in competition with your own stylists. And I will say the first month I had a plan, I wouldn’t say it was easy, but the first month I was out from behind the chair, my business actually made more money than it did the previous month. And so I think if you go into it with a plan, but what I would say is, like, how do I start? Well, take one day away and make that a day where you’re working on your business. Like I started slowly. I did this over two years, right? And then I think for stylists, I mean, obviously you build your business. You build your business behind the chair by having clients come back to you and so, but here’s the thing, so obviously, we’re training our clients that, like you want them to think you’re the best and to keep coming back. That’s not a bad thing. But we train them to think that like nobody else, can touch their hair, and that limits us, because when it’s time for us to level up raise prices, maybe you want to specialize. You’re like, I want to specialize. I don’t want to do haircuts anymore. I want to just do color services, or I just want to do extension services, or I want to do all hair cutting like, I love design, right? Or whatever that might be, it’s very hard to do it like I actually had a client bully me into doing her hair, and for some dumb reason, little voices, I stayed doing her hair after I left from behind the chair for another three months. And then when I finally was like, no more, she saw my other stylist and said, I actually like the way she does my hair better than you. Celene, I was kind of like, Screw you. But I was also like, well, that means I did my job. Yeah, right. And so here’s what I would say to stylist, if you want to level up, yes, you want to give them five star experience, but you also want to teach them that, like, like, start working with an associate. The first thing I would do is have my associate. And I know, Chris, you have an incredible I don’t know if I’m allowed to plug you, but I am. You have an incredible program that helps us to train associates. But what I would say is, when you start working with an associate, the first thing I do as a stylist is let my clients know that, listen, I have trained this person to do a better job than I could. Yes, right? And I’m. Like, I’m so booked behind the chair that I can’t give you the proper time. So they’re going to do your scalp massage, they’re going to do your blowout, they’re going to do and it gets them comfortable to know that, like other people, can do it too. So when you want to pass them off because you’ve raised your prices or it’s not a service you love to do anymore, you’re able to do that and move into the next phase of your career. Yeah.

Chris Baran 30:24
And it’s funny how in our industry, we’ve got this mindset my clients well and, you know, and yes, that they choose you. Your clients choose you. And whether you want to say, well, they are my clients, or they’re the salon clients or whatever, that’s an argument for another time. But I think, if you want to think successfully profitably, how can I earn the most amount of money that I can? And I can say this because I used to feel that same way. I had that thing. My clients love me. They love the way I blow their and it feeds our email, yeah, exactly. It feeds my feeds my self, well, my in my my self concept, but maybe in a wrong way, because I’m not thinking right as a business. And here’s what I’ll give you. And I know everybody has been through this, this particular experience is when you go to the doctor’s office. I went to the doctor’s office just a little while back, and my total time that I was there, from the time that I walked in till the time that I left, was about 3035, minutes. So I sat in, I waited for my appointment. They called me in, somebody brought me out. They did all my vitals, you know? They took my blood pressure, took my weight well, they asked me wait my weight, and I lied. But they, they do. They collect all the gatherings, yes, yes, just like having your hair shampooed. Then, then I remember I was, I had some stuff done in my hand. And they, they took them. I had some surgery on it, because I had was having, I had some trigger finger and so another person came in, a nurse came in. They took out the scissors, or they took they did a scissors, took out the stitches, checked everything out, asked me a bunch of questions, put all the notes in. And then, then the doctor came in and said, How you doing? How’s it working? Did a little thing. Was with me for about two to three minutes left, and the person came back in said, here’s what I want you to do. Here’s what the doctor is going to recommend. Do you need any painkillers? No, I don’t. Okay. If you do, call me, etc. And then I went up to the front, checked me out. The doctor only spent the time that was really needed to look at the things that I absolutely needed them for, and everybody else did all the other stuff around it. I didn’t think twice about it. I got expert service. But all the things that weren’t necessary that the doctor for the doctor to do, somebody else did. They had other positions for them, and I think if we took that on and understood that if, if I wasn’t happy with it, and wasn’t happy with that, they still had to give me a great experience while I was there, I still loved them, but I loved I loved the whole experience that I had, right from this time that I walked in till the time that I left. Yeah, and it wasn’t about the doctor. Yeah, 100%

Celene Dupuis 33:23
it’s back to those $15 an hour tasks versus like, what’s better time spent? And when you’re a busy stylist, that’s not just for salon owners, but when you’re a busy stylist, is your time best spent giving a shampoo and a scalp massage, or is your time best best spent or doing a root retouch, even, like, I mean, I can teach a monkey to do a root retouch, like, my 14 year old son could do it, yeah. Like, you know, it’s, there’s nothing creative about it. The things that your clients pay you for is for the like, the creative things that like, you know when you’re detailing a haircut, like, you know when you’re detailing a haircut. You can have two pixies and like, the difference between a good one and a not good one is how they’re detailed. Yeah, like they can both be even they’re both technically a good haircut. But the detailing of our work, or the creativeness, if you’re coloring, it’s the way you put in foils, the way you blend in the color. If you’re doing a lived in look like, those are the details that make your work creative, right?

Chris Baran 34:24
Yeah, and it’s the same. It’s similar. Like, even I don’t get my nails done, I wouldn’t like, chew them, but that’s about it. But I can remember visiting a buddy of mine and and he has it done at his house. And the the masseuse was in there, and he said, look at I bought you an hour session with this masseuse. I have never had such an amazing massage in my life, just because of the the care that she put into it and the way that that she massage. Different than everybody else, and I think that’s the same as, like, the details that come from the person. Now, I’m sure that if I had a 15 minute massage, I would have got that same personal feeling to it. And I think that’s what all of this amounts to, is just, how do we personalize? And we don’t have to do every little thing for the client to want us to be able to do it, you know? So, I mean, so that they think that every skill set that we have is only what they can do. And I think that sets us up for more of a scarcity and income than it we can for an abundance. So, next

Celene Dupuis 35:34
myth, next myth, okay, I’m, I’m going off book. I’m switching this one, Chris, because I feel like, I feel like we nailed it. And we already talked about this, and what you just said popped up another one that I think comes up all the time. I love it. And that really is, I think that, like, you cannot make we kind of briefly touched about it, but not really is that like being a hairdresser or working in the beauty industry, you can’t make money. You can’t make a good living. And so I think that’s a really important one that we really need to hit. And I think that, again, that’s like the whole journey. I actually, last year was the guest speaker, the keynote for our hair School grad. And so I asked the pair, like, course, it’s all the students, but then all the parents and the aunts and the uncles and and I said, like, how many of you, like, honestly, please raise your hand, like, play along. How many of you felt concerned when your child told you they were going into the beauty industry? How many of you the thought creeped in your head that they’re not going to be able to earn a good living, and 75% of the room put up their hand, yeah. And what was so interesting is, like, that’s 100% like, my dad was like, again, business owner. He’s like, I don’t care if you’re a hairdresser, but he’s like, I don’t want you to struggle to pay your bills. And because he just didn’t know, he’s like, again, we talked about it at the beginning $27,000 a year is average. And and so I think that that you hit some things, some nails on the head in the beginning on maybe, why those numbers are there people not reporting all the different things. But here’s what I would say, is that, like, this is an industry, and I mentioned it like you can make as much money as you want to. It’s like a pay to play, right? And so, I mean, it is unlimited, like we at in the high performance salon Academy, there’s about 200 salon owners, and in July, we head to our next destination training. And there’s an award banquet where we give away 100k hair stylist award. I don’t know how many they gave away. We do it every July, and this is North America. I don’t know how many they gave away, but there was at least 50 stylists that were nominated, and you have to be in person to win the award, so I would say it’s probably triple that. But there were stylists that were taking 200k like 300k and so to me, that’s incredible. Like, what other when I tell my friends who went to university that are like, oh, man, like, you know, I’m making like, 100k and, you know, I’m working 40 hours a week and all these things. And I’m like, Oh, I got people that got $100,000

Chris Baran 38:12
in student debt,

Celene Dupuis 38:13
yeah, exactly. And then I have staff that are taking home after taxes more than 100k and they’re doing that on like, six days, six hours, six hours a day, yeah, like, and at a 30 hour work week, imagine if they were working 36 or, you know, like, the sky is really the limit. And so I think that this is a career where the consumer thinks we charge a lot. I had somebody yesterday in an appointment say, like, why am I paying $500 to get my hair done? It’s like, Yeah, but like, the salon really, doesn’t really make a lot of money off of a service, like, they make three cents off $1 off of your service. But, and there’s that’s where I think the myth comes from, is because it’s like, if you’re not making money, it’s because you don’t have the right pricing structures. You’re not you don’t have the right structures and systems in place, but, like, the sky’s the limit, you can make so much money in this industry. In fact, a lot of the hair stylists I know, like I said, are out earning their partners, yeah,

Chris Baran 39:16
yeah. And you know the I always love it when people ask, because it’s when you say, how much can money can you earn in our business? And there’s this whole expression I got. Actually got this expression from Chris Sorby, where she’s she’d always her answer, if it was kind of a subjective answer, she would say, Well, how long is a piece of string, you know? And the point is, is, when people ask me, How much money can you make in this business, my pat answer is exactly what you deserve. In other words, if you apply yourself, working six hours, six hours a day, three days a week, you can make, you know, you can make as much money as you can and you can within that time frame. Obviously, it’s not infinite. It’s. It is, it is by the hours, by the services that you can physically do in that hours. But it’s like you said, how you level up your game? How are you improving so that you can charge with and that, I think this is the key part, without gouging. Yes, without gouging, you know, what can you do based on your experience, based on what that is at fair market value in the industry. And I think that’s always what you have to look at. You can make, yeah, tons of money in this business where you can’t set your own wage rate in others. Or, let me say, I’ll to read, take that back. There might be, but I don’t know of them, right? Yeah, that’s a beautiful thing. I think,

Celene Dupuis 40:42
I think the challenge and the limit in people’s minds about that as well is especially after, after COVID, because you brought that up. What changed in the industry is, like a lot of independent stylists really started talking about charging your worth, and then, I think that’s important, let me be clear, but, but you have to understand how the market works and consumerism works. Like pricing is based on demand. When you’re flying or you book a hotel, if nobody’s flying or booking hotels, the prices go down. When you’re in a high season, the prices go up. And so here’s the thing is, like people who are high in demand and booked all the time aren’t people that give terrible service. They’re going to give like you get in demand by giving a five star experience and by obviously having talent and all the things. But like, you can’t just charge $500 because your perceived value of yourself is that you’re worth it. Like, you have to have the built demand to be able to do that as well. Otherwise, it’s not sustainable. And maybe for a while, people will pay $500 but if they don’t perceive the value of what you’re giving them, they’re not going to come back. So you’re going to need to keep getting new clients, and in our industry, like the new, new guest retention, the average is only 18% Yeah. That means, if you see 10 new guests a month, you lose, you only keep two. You lose eight of those new get eight of those 10 new guests a month, you lose every month. So how do I increase my new my my new guest retention? Like it your value has to go up, and it has to match the your pricing. And like pricing is based on demand, so if you’re not 80% booked like, you probably shouldn’t be looking at raising your prices. Yeah,

Chris Baran 42:33
exactly. And I think part it’s really changed in our industry too, because before the internet, like when I was really heavy into the salon game. You you shopped out, you advertised your work, they would say, look at people would come just because of your work, but they don’t look at it that way anymore. Is if you’re not having a good social game and you’re you’re the images of your balayage and haircuts, not out there right now, the all the customers are shopping you, and they’re shopping you on the internet, just the same way as you went, you’re going to find the best price, the best quality, etc, with Amazon or whatever shopping service that people have to do a great game right now, I was at a really great salon. I mean, tons of great salons, but I remember, I was doing an event for somebody that what it was out of the on the East Coast. And I can remember, after I did the program, there was one of the people were crying, talking to the owner and and they said, I said, Look, it was something I did. You know, my little voice again. They didn’t like to class or whatever. And they said, no, they’re coming to me because they want me to advertise more, because they’re working their way back into the game. And they think it’s about advertising. And he had to tell them, look at No, it’s not about advertising. I can advertise the death out of you, but the reality is no more people are going to come. You have to get your work on on the internet. You have to do that with a five star experience. So, yeah. So I think, pardon me, if I feel like I’m beating a dead horse on that one, because we’ve said that. So yeah, our next myth,

Celene Dupuis 44:10
yeah. And the last one is that you have to be, we’ll say, overly competitive, to survive. And what I mean about this is, like, our, I’m just gonna say it our, our industry has a really bad rap, and it’s toxic. Like, I mean, I isolated myself in this industry in my city for a long time because I needed to find other salon owners that were like minded in the thinking that, like, there’s enough business for everybody, like, you can support. It’s like community over competition. You 100% as a stylist, can support other salons. I mean, even there was a time when I was an educator, I wasn’t even allowed to go to another manufacturer’s class and talk about it, because it was seen as, like, treason, yeah, and well, you should support the. Place that you work, that doesn’t mean that you can’t support other stylists and other businesses. And so I think that’s a huge one, like we try and partner with other salons as much as we can. You know, when I when I interview, I’m like, Listen, if you want to open your own salon, it doesn’t have to be a dirty little secret. I’ll help you open your salon, yeah, like, think about the magic we could create, like, together. And so I just think as a, as a, you know, you there is enough clients for everybody there, and there is, there is enough business, truly, for everybody. And I think that the quicker that we understand that the less we can get out of the toxicity that that exists within our our industry. Because, I mean, it’s not, it’s not good, it’s, it’s, it’s all fear based thinking,

Chris Baran 45:51
yeah, it’s exactly it. And I think that it comes down to that same thing. And I, I think in our last program we did, I talked, we were talking about, if I remember correctly, about abundance versus scarcity. And I think that’s where if people could just say, look, there’s enough to go around. I i think this is, and again, I’m going to this is, I always say I’m not smart enough to think of this stuff on my own, but I think some of the best advice that I’ve got along the way was when somebody told me that the unit you the universe, is like the universe abhors a vacuum. So if you got a vacuum in the universe, the universe whatever, whether it’s air or water or whatever, it’ll that it, it will rush in to fill that void. So if you gotta, if the if the water goes out of a space, and there’s no water to go in, something has to go in there to fill that space, yeah, and, and the way they put that to me was, your brain is the same way your soul that, that what you give out is the same way. So if you, if you hold on to everything that you do every like I can, I remember, and this was God in the 70s when competition, I was heavy into competition, and, and, and I remember people that won all the time were doing exactly the same thing. They just did it over and over and over again. Every time that they were in a competition and they’d win, they were doing almost the same haircut. But then the trend shifted, and nobody was when everybody knew what that was, but they wanted that new thing, and all of a sudden they weren’t winning anymore. And they kept doing the same thing all the time, and pretty soon they just went into oblivion because they weren’t adding anything new on to the experience. They weren’t adding and learning what was new. And I think that if you think of it like your brain that way, is, I love your thing is, if I You said it, if I earn if I know something, I’m going to give it away. I’m going to do it in a paid environment where I get paid. I’m going to give it away in another environment where I’ve got a friend that needs some advice. I’m just going to tell them what it is. I remember doing a show at at it was in it was that in Michigan, and there was a whole bunch of other people there, and we always had to do these avant presentations. And I remember this one kid came in and said, Can I see your work? And once you I brought him in and and I showed him exactly how I made all the look. And he said, You know what, you’re the I went to everybody’s room to see what they did in the finale, but everybody said I couldn’t come into the room because that was those were all secrets that we did on how we did that avant garde work. And I’ve always thought that look at just like the universe abhors a vacuum. If your mind doesn’t give away some of those ideas that you have, you don’t have space to come up with a new idea. And if you give stuff away,

Celene Dupuis 48:59
tracks more abundance. Exactly when you give it away, it’s going to flow back to you. Yeah, it’s

Chris Baran 49:07
damn I’m going to have to give you’re going to have to be a three peat. I tell you, we talked about having that. You’re the only this real second person that we had on that was on twice. Well, we got a second to have another record. And have you come back again? Because I’ve just solely enjoyed this, and I know that everybody else did. But before we leave, you know, I know, when we talk about this, Celene, people, are they listen to you, and they’ll say, Where do I get a hold of how can I learn more from her? How do people get a hold of you? What

Celene Dupuis 49:37
do they do? Yeah, great question. So, again, Instagram great place, but my website has everything, everything that you could need to know. So both my Instagram and my website is just my name, so it’s www.CeleneDupuis.com, you can find out information about the Little Voice Mastery Program, how to sign up, what the investment is. You can find information about, you know, if you’re wanting to bring me in for an event that you’re having, for the guest speaker event, or information if you’re a salon owner and you’re like, I want to move to that next level. Let’s get you involved with the high performance salon Academy, because, literally, I’ve been a client for eight years and been working for them as a mentor for the last three and I will say that that has not only changed my business, but it’s changed my life. And you know, if you’re looking to go to that next level, those are the things I would say will take you there.

Chris Baran 50:40
Well, Celene, I highly endorse that Little Voice Mastery. I’ve taken it myself. It’s helped me, both financially, relationship wise and also emotionally as well. So highly, highly recommend it. Celene, thank you. You’re one of the most giving people that I know, and I love the industry, then how you’ve helped to evolve yourself, and how you give away everything in the industry and help to people grow. So thank you so much for being here. Oh,

Celene Dupuis 51:14
well, thanks for having me, Chris. I will say that you’re only as good as your leaders. You have been one of my leaders, you know, for 20 plus years and and, like you said, I can’t take credit for all the ideas, if you don’t give it away. I got them from somewhere, and that’s from all the people that impacted me. So thanks for having me,

Chris Baran 51:34
and me too, and me too. That’s I always say that. So listen, thank you. A pleasure, and we got to set up another one.

Celene Dupuis 51:42
Sounds great. Thanks for having me. Cheers.

Chris Baran 51:46
Thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow headcase. Headcases is produced by Cut Action Media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.