ep126 Justin Gold

Show Notes

Today’s guest brings the perfect blend of heart and business savvy to the salon industry. With a business degree in hand, he helped elevate his salon both culturally and financially—earning a place in Salon Today’s Top 200 nearly every year since. As a business coach he helps good salons become great, guiding them to award-winning success.

He is an inspiring keynote speaker, a grounded thought leader, and a trusted common-sense coach. If you want your salon to have the culture where clients say, “I love the way this place makes me feel,” then you’ll want to lean in. I respect this man so much. Please meet this week’s Headcase, my friend Justin Gold!

3:04 Background and Family Business

17:22 The role of Leadership in Shaping Culture

21:24 Handling difficult employees and maintaining culture

37:49 The impact of High Earners with negative attitude

46:41 Defining Expectations and Core Values

48:17 The role of personal development in business

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire, and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. You Well, welcome everyone. And you know, I love having my industry friends join me as guests on head cases. And today’s guest took over his family salon business, the changing room in 2012 now catch this two years later, his business degrees helped him elevate the salon culturally and financially to the point that salon today awarded it one of the top 200 North American salons almost every year since then, he’s a business coach who elevates good salons to award winning ones. He’s a keynote speaker whose messages are inspirational and motivational. He’s a thought leader and a common sense coach to his team, and if you want to know how to create a culture in your business where people who enter say, you know, when I walk in, I love the way it makes me feel. If you want that, then my friends, it’s time to listen up. And by the way, did I mention that he’s a respected friend. So let’s get into this week’s head case. Justin gold, my friend, Justin, it is an absolute honor to have you on here, buddy. I know that we’ve had some shits and giggles together in the past, but it’s just really fun to have you on head cases. And I just want to welcome you and say, pleasure to have you on board, buddy. Thank

Justin Gold 2:04
you. Thank you so much. Yeah, you and I have a good laugh. And it’s so good seeing you again, even if it is virtually to this time. But you know, it’s always, it’s always nice to see your smiling face well.

Chris Baran 2:13
And for those people watching, you don’t know if we have pants on or anything below here, so, but we’re at least from top up, we’re looking great, exactly. Yeah. So Justin, I mean that the just like, and I gave already give some of your backstory in the intro, etc. And I know that you know, been working for a manufacturer and and you’ve been doing some amazing stuff, like helping people coach on their businesses, etc. Because especially times like now that you know, abundance and making money, and more so is making a profit as opposed to just making money, is there? And I know when you and I talked previously, we talked really about having that set culture, and I think that’s the that’s kind of the precedent that sets you up for making money as well. But just prior to us talking about that, I always like people to know, like, what’s the little bit of the hair story? Like, like, how you got into the business? And, you know, because sometimes people are in our business, or they, they they didn’t have a license, they don’t go to it. They’re business owners, etc, so what’s your hair story? Um,

Justin Gold 3:19
I’m second generation. So mom and dad were immigrants. So my whole family is from England, myself included. Unfortunately, I don’t have the sexy, beautiful British accent, you know my mom and dad do, though. So I still have a British passport, not American passport, but mom and dad came over and they learned from the school of hard knocks. You know they are, they’re technicians behind the chair, six, seven days a week. And they built up the changing room, which is my salon. We’ve been in business now 44 years. Their goal for me was to go to college. I’m the first one in my family lineage to go to college, university, two degrees in business finance and entrepreneurship and small business management. And then, you know, my journey took me elsewhere. And then, you know, one day, if you have a really good relationship with your family. Hopefully, as they raise you, they put food on the table and clothes on your back. You have to take care of them. And that day for me was about 18 years ago, so I was living in LA at a time, and mom and dad were running the business to the best their ability. Like I said, Mom took ill, so I came back temporarily to help out the family business, because I grew up at in it, you know, I grew up at the dinner table. They, you know, during the days, mom and dad, they worked in the business, and then to be able to work on the business was at dinner table. And so I ended up learning the business side of the beauty industry. And then I, you know, I moved on and moved on and did different things. And then I came back 18 years ago, and when I came in, I was able to see things from a different perspective, and that perspective was elevating it through an experience. Right? Instead of selling haircuts of hair color, we sell an experience, and that experience is defined by how strong your culture is in your organization. Yeah, so I was able to implement systems and procedures to elevate it.

Chris Baran 5:05
So let’s, let’s just pretend that, because I think that culture would, I mean, first of all, would you agree that, you know, I think there’s buzzwords that we have out there, and there’s things like professional and, yeah, etc, and then, and I don’t want to downplay the word culture by calling it a buzzword. But I find so many people, you know, and I’m probably not just in our industry, but they, they our business has a culture. Has to have a culture. And sometimes they, you know, they’ll use other words in it. Whether they you know, they’ll say, Well, we have a family culture, etc. But let’s just pretend that. Let’s just pretend that I don’t know anything about culture. I don’t know what it means. I don’t know how to get it, etc. But how do you how do you make like first of all, what is it? How do we get it into play? How does it come to life within our business?

Justin Gold 6:00
That’s a great question, a great simple analogy, I think, growing up, you know, depending unless you’re landlocked, if you’ve ever been on a lake, or you’ve been on, you know, in a river or something, if there’s a couple, if you and your friend, or a couple friends get in a canoe together or a kayak, the goal is for everyone to be rowing the boat together in the same direction towards a common goal, and the better that you and your friend or your peers or your mom and dad in the boat can do. That is a definition of what culture feels like. That helps. Yeah. How do you define it? There was a great quote that I you know, I gave a presentation. I think you saw me at data driven but a great, great quote that I that stuck with me about culture. Is culture a company culture? I’m going to read it verbatim so I don’t mess it up, encompasses the shared values, beliefs and attitudes that characterize how an organization operates, both internally and externally. It essentially defines the personality of a company and shapes how employees interact with each other, customers and a wider now that seems very long winded, but the key takeaway for me was it’s the personality on how we interact with each other, internally and externally. So that’s how I would define culture in my own words, because that really resonated with me. So that gives the premise of what is culture if we define it,

Chris Baran 7:30
you know what? I love that you said there Justin was personality, because you said, Well, you said a mouthful there, but you talked about values and attitudes. And, you know, it’s because I’m learning as I go along here as well. And I went 100 years ago, when I was when I owned, when I owned salons as I I would always talk to the team and say, look at that. And this was, again, I didn’t, I didn’t come up with this. This is somebody that, along the way, that used this analogy, and I stole that analogy, and I’ve been using it then and but the way that it was explained to me, which I always thought, What about business, not culture, but business, is, is that a business like your lake analogy, the way it was put to me, like your business is like, if you’ve got to make your way across the desert, and you went, you know, went to Egypt, you’re going, you’ve got to get across the desert to get to the other side, or to the Oasis, or wherever that is. And you’ve got a number of people, and you have, and the only means of transportation that you have is the camel, and that means that the camel is the business, and the water that you take along with you is like the money, and means that everybody has got to drink from the water, including the camel. He can. They can last a little bit longer than we as humans can. But everybody’s got to ride the camel to rest, and everybody has got to take their turn walking in order to so we don’t kill the animal. We don’t kill the beast. So the beast, the camel, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, just as the beast, as the animal. They’ve got to have water, they’ve got to have rest. They’ve got to, you know, so we can’t all just ride the animal and take all of the money out of the business and not make sure that and that the business succeeds. That makes sense. And that way you get across the desert, everybody arrives, the business is still in play. And I think that’s the what I’m loving that you’re saying, because on that ride across you can have the personalities that are there can either be great about one another, supporting one another, or being. A royal pita, you know, a pain in the assets that they say, Well, I want to ride the camel all the time, or I don’t want to share any water, and things as such. So I think that your analogy gave so much perspective when you talk about personality and attitude and the values you have for the business and other people. I think that just had such a great light that you that shone on that, that helped me understand that culture is the the link that keeps it all together. You’ll say this so much better than I, but that’s the kind of the message that I took away from what you said,

Justin Gold 10:38
Yes, thank you. And just to add to that, it’s for me, it’s the oil in the machine. You can’t always see, but you can feel, yeah, I’m not a car person, but when you’re driving down the road, you can lift the hood and you can see the belts and things moving and Okay, looks okay. But you don’t know how efficient, how effective and efficient the oil is, unless you get in the car and you try to go down the road if you have no oil and stuff. And so oil is, like the culture, it’s the it’s the Je ne sais quoi, the little, you can’t put your finger on it, little extra that makes it extraordinary, right?

Chris Baran 11:11
Yeah, no, I true. And so what, like, what would you say is the oil? What’s the oil?

Justin Gold 11:19
The oil is the interactions of our team with one another, that how they’re working and how are they respecting and are they aligned on the same vision of the organization. What I love is my salon, very large salon. We’re very eclectic. We have all walks of life. We have all shapes and sizes and colors and personalities and and, you know, personal preferences. But just because we have different personal backgrounds and different experiences that we we grew from, we all are aligned on our core values, yeah, and intentionally created our core values and a mission and a vision, and those are the three pillars that help define how strong our culture is. And so not everyone gets along, not everyone’s best friends in the back room, but everybody respects each other, and everyone understands that we’re accountable for our actions, and we’re a team, and we win as a team, we lose as a team, and that’s how you can feel, what the oil is in the culture. You know, one last point on this is that one of my my greatest achievements, that I feel best about as a leader in my organization, it’s not about how much money we make. It’s when an applicant comes in, when a new guest comes in, or a repeat guest, and they say, when I walk into your salon, it just feels great. Everyone looks like they’re having fun. Everyone’s getting along like I love the energy in here. That, for me, is a huge win, because I know then that we have such a good culture, buzz word again, that can be felt, but not necessarily seen, and in turn, agree, culture will allow for a great client experience will then turn into the dollars at the end of the day, because we’re in it for a business at the end of day, but the dollars is the last it’s the result. It’s the fruits of the labor. It’s not the initial goal, because if you’re just in it for the money, then you’re missing all the other key components that are going to be the building blocks for

Chris Baran 13:28
the success to get you there. Oh, just for a second. Are we getting some echo back in here again? Because I’m getting some echo from me. Lee, just a couple of words. I’m getting and, like, right now I don’t get it, but it sounds sometimes when I just start a sentence, I get it, it might take Lee a second to Okay, okay. Well, then if you’re not getting it, then I can live with it, not to worry. Okay, I’ll pick it up from there. What I like that you said, Well, there’s two, two big points that I that I that I want to get to is like, what I love that you’re saying, and I love that you’re saying, it’s not about the money, but we know that is about the money at the end of the day, that’s the beast. We’ve gotta make money. So I know that I like we’re saying it’s we’re not just in it to driving force, making money, and money is, is, my profit is, is as a greater percentage of my value than my people, right? I love that, and I loved how you said that, that it’s the feeling you get when you come into a place of business, anywhere. And I think you know what that represents to me when I get when I go into a place and a salon, I don’t care if they’re selling shirts or whatever it is, if I get that feeling, and it generally happens to me when the first person talks to me that I get the vibe of what the place is like and and what I notice. Yes, again, I am not the be all, end all. But I will say this, what, I think that, like the L in culture comes, that the benefit of having that culture is the loyalty that, and I’m going to talk people first as in your the what, that’s what people gravitate to and what they want to work environment they want to work in. So I think I’ve got loyal people that are working for me because they love coming into work because of the feeling. And it’s not negative, it’s positive. Doesn’t mean that we all have to hold hands, sing Kumbaya in the morning, you know, and we’re all having dinner parties together in the evening. It’s, it’s not that. It’s just the when you’re at work, your work attitude, your work ethic and the ethos that you have inside it. And that, to me, if you have that, then the the benefit of that is the loyalty that you get from the customer. Like you said, when they walk in, they went, I love coming here. It just makes me my turmoil that I have at home in life and watching TV is just negated or washed away because I feel good in here.

Justin Gold 16:12
Yes, yes. And, you know, Richard Branson, I think, said it best, you know, I’ve always thought this, and then he confirmed it, because I have a lot of respect for him as an entrepreneur. How happy, happy employees, happy guest. Yeah? And if you walk in somewhere and people are being friendly, and they seem like they’re enjoying each other, you know, in a professional manner, and smiling and supporting one another, and that feeling you want to be a part of that, it’s not a toxic environment, right? And people are smiling or they greet you when the first time they greet you, Hi, how are you? And they feel, you know, your team’s feeling appreciated and welcome. They’re gonna, they’re gonna, in turn, treat the guests the exact same way. And as a guest, when we walk in, we want to be treated with smiles and happiness and joy.

Chris Baran 17:00
You know, that brings up another question, and because you brought up Richard Branson, and I, because I follow him, and I, I just find him, I’m sure he’s, well, he can’t call him ordinary, but he’s got that like me feeling to him, it’s, you know, I respect everything he’s done, but when I listen to him, he doesn’t sound like a braggart or any and that made me think is, is it top down, like does? Does that feeling come from top down, bottom up? What’s your thoughts on that?

Justin Gold 17:32
It is 100,000% if that’s a real number, and percentage wise, it is, for me, from the top down, because the the leaders I don’t I don’t call myself owner or boss, even my business card just says leader and coach, because we we do it together as a team. I’m not above my team. I don’t talk to my team. We’re in it. I just have a role. They have a role, and we’re equal. In my eyes, leadership is it filters down from the top on all organizations. So if you have someone who is like the assistants that are growing to get their chairs, their direct actions and results are a correlation to how well the leader runs the organization, because their leaders then talk teach their managers or their their leaders and they they report to the stylist and the receptionist and the assistants. So it goes all the way down. You know, there’s a saying, fish rots from the head down, and that’s, that’s, that’s a true that can be a truer statement. You know, like you, I coach, and I go around the country, and I coach salons, I teach business classes, and it continuously confirms that the stronger the organization is is when a leader really cares about their team versus an absentee owner who just doesn’t really care, and they’re never here, and then there’s turmoil and there’s problems, and it becomes a Me, me, me versus a wee, wee, wee. Just like this, is why head coaches of organ of teams that doesn’t matter what team they get fired, because they are their ones held accountable. But then you get, you get the same team members with a different coach, and if they came to championships, what was the difference? It was the leadership of the organization and how they cultivated the conversations and the culture, once again, of that organization or that team.

Chris Baran 19:20
I am loving this, because I’m going to throw out a scenario that I think has happened. I don’t I’m not going to say every salon, but I’d say 99.99999% of salons that are out there it, and I want to call it that, that one person with the bad vibe, and I and I, the reason why I’m saying this is because you can have all of that top down, whether, whether you believe it’s top down or bottom up, or it’s the whole team, you know, whatever you believe in, we’ve all been in an environment where somebody is like that rotten apple the bad. Saying the, you know, whatever, and, and there’s this hostage factor that can happen. So I want to talk about two things. Number one, is your feeling on it? Maybe there’s three. I’m going to try to label this out. So I always find if I can give you good talking points here, because I need education on this too. If you’ve got somebody that’s the bad vibe, and they’re going to come from two places. They either were, they were good at one time and now they’re bad, or they’ve been bad all along as and for the people out there, I’d like to come from this, from two points, from those people. If you’re the owner and you’ve got to coach them. How would you coach them? And and if, and then maybe after that, if we can, if we have, how would, how would you deal with it? If you’re the person that’s working alongside them, is there something that they could do? I know that was a mouthful in a

Justin Gold 20:56
lot. Okay, so, so let’s, let’s take the two. I’m going to reiterate, when you have a one of your co workers who seems to be a bad apple or is going through some things, what do you do as a leadership and how do you address it, and how do you try to engage with them and correct it? I guess then, if you’re not a leader, if you’re listening to this, and you are a co worker and you’re a peer. How do you handle that? From that perspective, that’s what I’m hearing. So first and foremost, for the leaders, you know, everyone’s entitled to a bad day, right? We all have challenges, and every single person listening, you and me, Chris and we all have personal problems and things going on in our life. There’s no such thing as a utopian life for each of each of us. So we all have problems, but so you have a bad day, that’s fine. You recognize it. You as a leader. You have to address it, right? You see what’s going on. You have a conversation. Now, the very first thing you do is as a manager leader is I like to when there’s a rotten apple or it’s become more than a day now, and it’s okay, there’s something going on here. I I’m recognizing, right? That this is a challenge in our organization. This person needs to be corrected, right? So I have a one on one conversation with them in a private setting, right? We praise in public reprimand in private, which is very important, we don’t just have a conversation in the back room or by in the color bar. But like, Hey, Sarah, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, why are you acting this way? That’s, that’s, that’s the wrong thing to do. Okay, so you have a private conversation. Another thing is, I want everyone that’s listening is making sure you sit down with the person. Because when you sit down, you’re equal playing fields. We are equal. Now, I’m six two. I’m a male. You know, I am taller than most of my team members, my co workers, so I don’t want to be looking down. Body language is very, very important. 80% of communication is non verbal. So if you’re going to really get through and help this individual, we need to make sure that we’re listening to them attentively and we’re present. A lot of how you show up as a leader is going to dictate the success of the outcome of the conversation with this quote, unquote, rotten apple. So you’re sitting down open stance, you’re not emailing, having a quick conversation. You got to be respectful. You turn your phone off, you give them your presence. You have an open, comfortable stance. You’re not Hey, so what’s going on, Sarah, this isn’t going to work, right? So you have an open, kind of engaging, lean, a little bit forward body language. I don’t know. I’m using Sarah as our as a rotten apple example, Sarah, the very first question used to ask is, how is Sarah doing? Because it becomes the human element. And what I did was, I didn’t say, How are you doing? I said, How is Sarah doing? Use their name, of course, and because what it does is it allows the person to reflect on themselves in third person, how is Justin doing that first question can alter the entire conversation. I had this with one of my co workers, you know, couple months ago, and I said, How is so and so doing? And she started to cry and started to tell me some personal things in our life, because she was being late all the time. So I had to address, I want to go in there. Why are you being late? You know, blah, blah, blah. But from that conversation, the very first question, she was able to give her a space to open up and tell me what was going on. I don’t pry into my personal my team members life, unless they want to open up. That changed the write up conversation, because then the human element felt for her, and it didn’t give complete grace, but it allowed for me to then shift and say, How can I support you? Another really good question for a leader is, how can I help you? How can I support you? Bad apples are not as bad as they they usually are to the core. They just need a little listening to, some guidance, some coaching opportunities. Now, not everyone’s going to have a great, successful conversation in the first go. So if you’ve had this one conversation, maybe two. I’m a three strikes kind of person. Um, second conversation. We need it. We’ve already addressed this on this date. This time. Make sure you document everything. And the second conversation would be, look, we’ve already had this conversation. You know what’s going on? How can I help you? You do some coaching, ask some clarifying questions, open ended questions, because it allows for the co worker or your employee to answer, right? Because when they answer, they have to own what they’re saying. If you are telling them, like, you know, mom and dad tells us this does not they can go, yeah, yeah, yeah, and agree with you and walk out and nothing’s going to change. But when they have to answer, they have to own it. One last good point, I like to make sure that we’ve extended as much resources and the engagement conversation to help this person get back on board and not be a rotten apple anymore, before you let them go, because they’re so human and they have, you know, mouths to feed, and they, you know, they nobody likes being fired, right, or showing the door. I don’t believe I fire anybody. I think they fire themselves, because these are the, this is what we agreed on. These are, this is the rules and the expectations of the job role, and you choose not to follow them, that’s okay. Maybe this isn’t the right organization for you. So I don’t really feel like I fire anybody. They fire themselves. One last really, really nugget on this, and I’ll move on to the next one real quick, is if you’re a leader and you have, like, I have an office. Thankfully, some salons aren’t able to have that. But if you generally, as a manager, leader, have your your seat, I have a seat, and then the the employee has their seat, it’s just kind of my my desk state change and shifting their perspective on the conversation really helps. So this is like conversation number three now, and I’m like, Look, Sarah, we’ve had a scary conversation multiple times. I just use tardy because tardiness is the number one reason why people get low, go, let go of my organization. They can’t seem to get the long time. So I say, I would say, on in the conversation, number three, maybe this is after a couple times. This isn’t three days in a row. We’re very we’re very giving and understanding in that last conversation, I would say, Sarah, do me a favor. Stand up. They stand up, and they say, sit in my chair. And you sit in their chair, and they’re like, no, no, no, sit in my chair, because now they’re the boss or the owner. Right? Then I ask them this, what would you do in my situation? Sarah, if you were me and I was you, and I was showing up and I had multiple conversations, what would you do? It is amazing, Chris, how many times they say, I would fire you. And as soon as they say that out of their own mouth, their face drops because they understand the severity of their actions. That that state change and that role reversal, it really makes a shift. Now, not everybody once again, and unfortunately, sometimes people have to, you know, be shown the door. But that really, really helps, that state change helps now, real quick to get to the second part. If your co worker is is not doing the best that they can, and they’re rotten apple. I grew up playing team sports, and I feel like we win as a team loses a team, and not only does it come from the top down, you have to be recognized and be able to work together and hold each other accountable, peer to peer, right? And so the conversation is, if you’re a peer with your your someone working with you and say, I’m just I’m a stylist, and Sarah’s a stylist, and she’s becoming a rotten apple and complaining and bitching about this place, and it’s kind of bringing me down, because I actually like coming to work and actually like this organization, but you’re just bashing in, bashing the owner and bashing all the problems. I would pull them aside and say, Hey, Sarah, what’s going on? Another question Is everything okay with you, Sarah, because people are human, and we have problems, and sometimes they don’t know how they to articulate it. It comes out in different ways. And so Sarah, what’s going on? Very similar questions. Is, everything okay with Sarah? Is there anything I can do to support you? What’s really going on here? And it would be wholly unaccountable. Look and say, the I feel message, you know, Sarah, I feel negative when I have to work with you, because when you complain about the environment or politics or whatever it is, it doesn’t make me feel good, so I want you to know I’m here to support you. Do you need help? Shelly, could you want me to talk to the management for you or with you? But these actions are not making me feel good, and it’s bringing me down, and I want to enjoy coming to work, so let me know how I can help you. So it’s similar, but it’s a different approach. Like, I’m a big leader. It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it. Yeah, and I teach, I have managers, but I teach, they’re my leaders. I call them leadership team. You can be strong and soft in this, in the same conversation. You can still be soft in their delivery, but you can be strong in your intent of the outcome of the desired outcome. One last point I want to touch on is my purpose and my goal is, when I have to have tough conversations with my co workers or my employees, is that they leave my office empowered. Yes, they just got written up, and yes, they’re on the verge of getting fired, but when they leave my office, I want. Them to feel inspired and empowered and that I believe in them, and I do believe in them, because if I didn’t believe in them, they wouldn’t be on my team. So I point out the really good things, some good things that I’ve noticed. We talk about the challenges and how can I support them, and then I find I finish it with just reiterating some of the good things. And then I can believe in them, and I know that they can do this genuinely. And so they leave feeling like, Okay, I am part of this team. I do make a difference. My voice was heard. I knew I can do better for myself and for the organization.

Chris Baran 30:30
I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using. I hate working in a small, cramped box, yet I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from, meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space. With artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities. With artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus, you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out artist on go built for stylists serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50% on your rent to find out more, go to B I T, dot L y slash artist on go. CB, that’s B, I T, dot L y slash, artist on go. CB, you know, there’s you said, a couple of nuggets in there that I that I loved, and I loved when you said, like, is that talking to them about, how is Sarah doing? And I think the first thing that one of the things that nuggets that I’ve learned along the way is that, if especially on the first go around with somebody as you’re coaching the first time, maybe not this so much the second or the third, but is, if you can make the problem the problem and not the person the problem. Yeah, you’re saying, Sarah, you know I love what I love. We love working with you here. You’ve always been such a great asset to our company. However, the tardiness that you’ve had, you know, and go on and on. So you see, you, you don’t make Sarah the brunt, you make the behavior the front. So it’s like it’s you’re making the behavior the problem, not the person isn’t the problem. So you’re making the problem that they’re doing the problem, not the person itself,

Justin Gold 33:05
right? And this is, I strongly encourage everyone listening, is this is why you have a handbook and you have clearly defined job descriptions, because it’s not you versus Sarah, it’s you with Sarah against the rules and the organizational job description that you both agreed on to work so you’re on Sarah’s team. It takes away me versus you. It’s me and you against the problem very well stated

Chris Baran 33:32
you just brought up, I’m having flashes, nuggets that are going off in my head because I’ve been involved with so many organizations, manufacturers, listen to companies, and everybody has their policies and procedures. And the light bulb that just went off in my brain was, what if you stopped calling it a policies and procedures manual, and you called it your working agreement? I love that, and I just think that that’s what, because I know that we’ve had in our company, we’ve had other companies that we’ve got done some kind of an arrangement with, and we always make a working agreement. Here’s the here’s how we’re going to play in the sandbox together, and we write up the rules. And I just thought, if we can make that our working agreement that we have together, and you just hold up and say, here’s our working agreement, and this is what we all agreed to, Sarah, and we love you, but here’s what’s happening, and here’s what’s happening that we’re not living up to. And the other thing that came to my mind is that,

Speaker 1 34:40
is that.

Chris Baran 34:43
And I just heard this the other day in it, and this is the first time I’ve actually talked about it out loud. But I I heard somebody saying, when you have to have a difficult conversation, is, rather than making it about them, you make it about you, and you. Did that so well. And the nugget I would add into this, that I that I learned from is that person said, you know, I I have a story that’s going on in my brain right now, and I’d love, I just want to share my story with you, because it’s affecting me in this way, and then you can go into Sarah, I’ve noticed that you before, you were great, and I love working with you. And lately, I’ve noticed that you’re XYZ, and you’ve been down, and it’s been affecting me, and that’s my story, and I I would love I just want to help to change. What can we do so I can change my story about the way that I feel about you right now. I love that. I really love that, yeah, it’s just and again, like I’m a I’m not the smartest person around, but I am a good gatherer. And I think little nuggets like that that we can all learn from and make our industry grow with. This is always just wonderful. So

Justin Gold 35:58
what happens there? What you do there? Chris, you know me, my life, my Nuggets are going on, my light bulbs are going off, and I’m learning a lot from you as well. Thank you. What that does is it helps lower their guard of why they’re in there, and it makes it about, hey, this is my story. Can you help me? Another really good thing is, when you’re a leader, when you ask for help your team members and most humans, we’re good by nature that I truly believe it on my hearts is that they want to help, right? And so it’s like, I need your help understanding this story and this narrative that I’m going through. It takes down their like the fence, and it’s like, oh, okay, what is this story? Let me oh well. And they, helps them articulate and support your story about them, and then they can feel like they are a character, that they can actually alter the story moving forward, and it takes down their guard. I love that. I love that. Thank you. The

Speaker 1 36:53
that

Chris Baran 36:57
kind of you just made me think one more step because, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna reel this all back in to, way back to the beginning of why these conversations are so necessary to have. I mean, we are talking about culture, but culture doesn’t mean giving up on your people. It still means you’re gonna have to have some hard conversations. It’s just the how you do them is so important because, and this is the other thing that I want to chat with you about in here, from from a business coach, from people who helps to coach, people that are having these everyday problems. And here’s the other one is particularly when, let’s say it’s that that person with the bad attitude, or somebody that’s just not following your your working agreement, your policies and procedures, or if you have a code of honor. But they’re a really high earner, they’re they’re bringing money in hand over fist, and the the owners or the leadership team or both, are thinking, oh God, we’ve got to walk on eggshells, because if they leave, there’s so much money, money going out the door. How do you help people that have that disabling story in their head?

Justin Gold 38:16
Yes, that’s it’s a very good, good question, and we, unfortunately, too many salons have, or organizations have these, these players that kind of are your producers, yeah, but not they’re but not your aligned with kind of supporting, right? So you have your A players, right? So a players, there’s a, there’s a there’s a there’s a chart, right? If you were to do the x and y axis, and you kind of, you do a diagram, you would have your A players, right? Your A players are high performers and high values. And I say values, I mean the cultural values of your organization, right? They align with what you’re trying to achieve. Those are a players. Those, those are your rock stars, right? Then you have your B players, which are your high high culture, but not necessarily your performers yet. But that’s okay, because B players can become a players. They can level up as long as they’re showing up on time, looking the part, they got a great attitude. They’re a team player, right? They’re they’re all the key, all the key attributes that you’re trying to embody in in your culture and your organization. Those are your B players. And B players become a players, because over time, they will start gaining traction and getting more referrals and grow their book. Great. But then you have your C players, and your C players are the most dangerous people in your organization. Lot of organizations and companies call them near terrorists, because they hold you captive, because it’s like, well, they make so much money. Me. I had this with not too long ago. I was in the salon, and they have, they have a very, very, very big producing C player and but bad attitude. It’s a diva why I call them divas, right? I don’t know about call them terrorists, but in our beauty industry, we know our divas, right? And it’s just like, I can do what I want because I make so much money, and I can show up late, and I don’t have to look the part of the day because I make so much money, and the owners are scared to like, I can’t let them go. I can’t because they’re our product, right? This is what’s hard about selling a talent, is that they’re your, your your product, right? They walk out the door, there goes a lot of income. The biggest, the biggest challenge with this is that when you’re a player, and your C player are making the same amount of money, but the a player is seeing your C players showing up late, not looking the part. You’re like, Wait a minute. So a players can be brought down to C players if you’re not careful. And then your organization just goes to puts so and then D players are just, there shouldn’t be there’s not even a conversation. They’re not making money, they’re not party values and why. They’re not even on your and why they’re not even on your team, right? That’s not even so, so, so I like following them your divas and and because I have, you know, you can have your rock stars, but they can be then you you have, you know, I don’t like calling them terrorists, but you understand, you understand the conversation. But B players and a players are, the ones that you really want to, you know, invest in and your time because support them. Unfortunately, a lot of our efforts goes into conversations with the C players, and they take up a lot of your time. And there’s a point of like you try to coach them and try to get them on board, but the best thing you can do for your organization is have those tough conversations and be willing to take a short term loss financially, to have a long term game of longevity. And it comes from offloading. If you have to those guests, if that, if you decide that this diva is not getting on board, you need to let that person go. It will affect the entire company in a positive manner. And if you don’t, it’s going to affect the entire company in a negative manner over time. But when that C player is removed from the organization and shown the door, a lot of the guests will go to that B player because that B is excited. They’re showing up. They’ve got a good attitude, and they looked apart. And so what happens then is your c diva gets removed. You cut out the cancer, you know, for on for lack of an analogy, and all the guests are not most of the guests, hopefully will go to those B players that will become your A players quickly. It’s just a mathematical equation, which is scary, very scary for salon owners. Um, but it’s the right thing to do. And we know that the right thing to do is usually the hard thing

Chris Baran 42:46
to do. It’s written. I think your cancer analogy was the perfect analogy, because that it’s that cancer that, like through the body of your business, that will run rampant if it’s not checked and and I think that, you know, maybe, maybe we’re at the point where that little bit of a letdown is going to help that person. I always believe, if somebody is like a diva, somebody is thinks they’re more important than everybody else. You know, from a personal development side, where I would want to help that person would be what happened in your life, why you’re acting this way? You know, what, like, what? What do you what are that you’re what is it that you’re gaining? And I mean, we all, you can always talk about a clearing where somebody says they need to have something cleared from their past so that it can move forward in their life and not be that negative, that negative personality, the thing that they feel, that they have to be that front that they put up. It’s nice to be able to do that, but, you know, I don’t think many people are qualified to clear that and or to put in the time energy to have somebody clear them. So you might be doing them a favor, but you’re sure as hell doing the body of your business a favor by helping them to see that if you’re continually acting like that, you’re gonna You got fired, and now you’ve got to maybe eat a little humble pie Before you go on to your next business, and maybe, maybe you help to help them to just become a better person at the next place. Yes,

Justin Gold 44:29
and here’s one of the additional challenge with your divas and your cancer and your C players, is that there’s a lot of politics in businesses, and it’s not just about the leaders and the managers are the influencer. I mean, are the people in charge? Your influencers? Are your high performers? Yeah, because people look up to them, be like, Wow, I want to make that much money. I want to be able to go on vacations five years ago. I want to be able to do these things. And the financial aspect of it allows for those that things that people see on social media and in your own organization. So if that person who’s performing. Uh, they have a lot of influence with your youth. And I don’t mean youth by age. I mean youth who’s how long they did with your organization, because we know everyone starts their journey at different times, but when they come into your company, they’re going to be looking up to the high performers your a and if you have your C players, you don’t want them to follow that those footsteps to try to grow in your company, because then all the new talent that you’re bringing on are going to be automatically going on the path of the C player. Yeah. That is super detrimental to your Yeah,

Chris Baran 45:35
yeah. So you’re actually you know that what you think is a financial gain is probably an attitude and personality to your culture, to your culture detriment. So, yes, I mean, I don’t know where the hell the time went here. I mean, this has been such an amazing conversation, I think that you know, and Justin, I’d love to have you back on at another time to even talk about more things that are on here, because it’s been so insightful and I but I’ve got a couple things I want. One more thing just at the end, but if I just for now, is if you could say if there’s one thing that you find that you’re constantly coaching your clients on is there one top nugget that you’d say when you go in? Here’s the number one thing that I do to help to shift their business or shift their

Justin Gold 46:35
culture? Yes, I Yes. The one thing that keeps presenting itself is clearly defining expectations of your team. My business life coach, I’ve had for many years. She’s changed my world and my life. I think coach, everyone needs a coach. It doesn’t matter what where you are. And coaches need coaches because they see your blind spots. They’re not emotionally attached to the situation. And my business life coach gave me one quote that’s that stayed with me forever, and it’s conflict arises when expectations differ. Let me say it again. Conflict arises when expectations differ. That’s in our personal relationships with our partners or husbands or boyfriend, with your kids, you have an expectation and they don’t meet it, then the conflict arises. So how do we make sure that we make sure that they’re living up to the expectations we have to clearly define the agreement, your core values, your non negotiables in your organization. And so that’s one thing I coach, is that, do they understand their job role? Do they get it? Are they capable of doing it, and do they want to do their role? So that’s what I would give you, that’s one thing is clearly define your expectations of your team and each part of the organization that will minimize a lot of problems down the road and a lot of conversations.

Chris Baran 47:52
Yeah. And you know, what I love about what you said is, because even going in, I think that sometimes expectations can be another buzzword. And I love the way that you, you said it is like, what’s a non negotiable, what’s a breaking point for us. And I think that if you can define those, then that’s there, you know? And I wow, if anybody wants coaching, if they want to get a hold of you and want to have you speak or come and talk to their people get involved with you and have you help them. How do they do that? Who do they get a hold of

Justin Gold 48:27
you? My website is very simple. So my business coaching is called RISE coaching and consulting, right? Like you’re rising to the next level, R, i, s, e, just how it spelled, rise coaching, consulting. But my website is www, dot rise, cc.com, nice and short, rise, cc.com, or my Instagram. You know, I like posting videos and motivation. I live my life on motivation and growth, and my Instagram is simply rise, coaching, consulting, all one word, no spaces. Got

Chris Baran 48:56
it. Thank you, Justin, I can see why people hire you to come and help. And I’m I’m actually envious and to a degree, and I’d love to come in sometime and just walk in so I can feel that vibe in your salon, and I know that’s what you want to bring to other people. So I say you brought it to this podcast. And I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

Justin Gold 49:22
Thank you. I really appreciate you and and yes, I’d love to come on another time. I know there’s plenty of topics and plenty of ways that we can help elevate and support our industry and make it the best version it can be. And I’m here for it, and I love my passion is helping others be the best version of themselves. And that’s that’s my purpose. I didn’t tell you this, but I grew up with a handicap sister. She was special needs, and she was my big sister, and my whole world was giving, and I didn’t know what I want to be when I grew up until I turned about 40, and that’s coaching, and I supportive and loving others to be the best version, and that’s what I’m supposed to do. I feel like that’s my purpose. So thank you for allowing. Me to share my story and my knowledge.

Chris Baran 50:02
Well, that was my pleasure. And I remember you telling me that story. And I remember in the, I think was in your salon, the picture, you have a picture of that butterfly on your back wall, and I remember commenting on it, and you said that that made you think of your sister. And I,

Speaker 1 50:21
you know, I applaud you for that. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you as always.

Chris Baran 50:27
Thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow head case. Head cases is produced by cut action media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.