ep80 – Justin Pace

This week on Headcases, my guest is a special friend, and he has won so many awards I don’t know where he has room to keep them. He is Australian Hairdresser of the Year. He has won Australia’s Educator of the Year no less than four times. He has two wins apiece for Hair Technician of the Year and Best Salon Team Training. He is the national hair director at Australia Fashion Week. He serves as a judge for national and international awards. And he is the founder of the Curate Apprenticeship Awards in Australia. Please welcome my good friend, Justin Pace.

  • 3:56 – Using wigs and hairpieces in coloring, ethics with models, and necessary skill level
  • 23:07 – The importance of understanding the fundamentals and the history of hairdressing
  • 27:15 – Creativity, breaking the rules, and the importance of making mistakes in a creative industry
  • 1:02:34 – Industry trends, awards, and the passion for hairdressing

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes? We love and admire and to ask them how did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success

Well, welcome to one more week of Headcases. And this one is a special one for me because I have a good buddy on here who is an icon in the industry eyes, but he’s still good friends with me and I’ve worked with him lots. So it is a real special time for me to have him on. And I want to read what Australian hairdresser hairdressing industry awards, wrote about him. And he they said, and I’m using quotation marks right now, one of Australia’s quintessential hairdressers with three decades experience, rendering his work, the archetype of virtual six skills, and creative genres of distinct expertise. Okay, now the general speak is he’s bloody genius. And he does and he does everything meaning cut color, etc. He has the ability to mix the commercial with the classics. And his work is absolutely phenomenal. The he is the Australian hairdresser of the year, he has been four times Australian Educator of the Year two times Australian hair technician of the year, I don’t know where he gets room for all these trophies in his place. But he’s the best team in salon training for two years running. And I want to talk a little bit more about in that when we’re doing the podcast. He is the national hair director at Australian Fashion Week. If you’ve I swear if you’ve seen any industry magazine that’s out there and work that is inspiring to you. You have seen his work that’s out there. He’s also a judge for national and international awards, like NAHA. He is the founder of the curate apprenticeship awards out of Australia. And he is he’s just a really passionate gentleman, about making sure that our industry keeps its discipline and its its disciplines high. So let’s get into this week’s Headcase. My good, Aussie buddy, Justin pace. Justin, it is an absolute pleasure and honor to have you on here. Welcome to Headcases, and I just can’t wait to have a chat because it’s been too damn long.

Justin Pace 2:36
That has been absolutely crazy. When I got the email. It’s like, wow, I’ve I’ve been listening to Headcases actually, when I travel on the plane, and the lineup that you’ve had phenomenal. So yeah, it’s a bit sort of do acceptive It’s one of those things you always doubt yourself. But yeah, thank you for the invite.

Chris Baran 2:57
Yeah, well, that’s typical Commonwealth Commonwealth thing being is that I’m Canadian. You’re Aussie. So we all have that impostor syndrome that are not worthy. But believe me, my friend you are and when was when was the last time? I think that we were either in New York together or work together. How long has that been? Yeah.

Justin Pace 3:20
I think probably working together would have been New York. I 2018-2017 I think in New York. And then yeah, obviously a symposium, whatever the last major symposium was in Vegas, which Yeah, try to think of it before I jumped on. I don’t know if it was ’18 or ’19. But what it

Chris Baran 3:40
would have been, because there were always odd years, so would have been ’17 or ’19. Would have been years when they were in Vegas. And now they’re every year.

Justin Pace 3:47
Okay. Yeah. No, it was a lot of Vegas. That would have been two years before that in. In New York, for sure.

Chris Baran 3:55
Yeah. Well, I don’t want to I want to just say this that I remember. You know what I think I remember is when you maybe not, but I’m I’m having this remembering park that’s coming back to me that I remember you had just been to London, I believe. And you had shot. You went you went? I think and if not, I think that you got your models there. But I just remember your collection was so bloody brilliant. And and I remember that I couldn’t get over how with everything that you’ve got in Australia use you actually flew your team over to London to do your shoot. And that to me was pretty remarkable. Yeah,

Justin Pace 4:41
that was that was that was it? I’d say. So that was that was Australian colorist. So the rays that I shot in London. Well, I probably believe we’ve got one of the best photographers in the world in Australia. guy called Michelle. Yeah. Anyway, so I Somebody’s phenomenal Shoot, shoot everyone in the UK or mostly spent half the time in Australia at the time of the UK. Always shot with him always did very well. The problem we have in Australia is models that we just cannot get models. So there’s a guy called John Walton in, in London that very rarely. Rarely. Yeah. And I wanted to share with John. And I reached out and he was like, 100%, I’m happy to work with you. And the difference is you do model core in Australia, you probably get, I like to shoot a model three, present six, I like to shoot a, you’re probably tufting 1012. Back when I used hair models. In London, first class Dean, I think I had about 60 Wow, so just shoots different. And with when it’s changed now, but when I showed him for coloring, we had to use models, we couldn’t wear hair pieces, and we couldn’t use weeks. So I had to use physical hair to for those awards. It’s all changed now. You can put you can put hair pieces in now, for color. Yeah, but

Chris Baran 6:16
that is the point, though, isn’t it? In, you know, is sometimes that, you know, quite frankly, is is sometimes people with lesser ethics, who told models that they were going to do something did something completely different. And then it kind of ruined it for the rest of us who who have a modicum of of ethics and that you tell the people what you’re going to do. So they like it at the end, rather than just getting result. But all of that aside, it did kind of ruin it where now yeah, you know, you can get the model, but they’ve also got to work to, you know, if you’re gonna get a good model, they’ve got to work and they can’t have some of the stuff that you would want to do cutter color wise. So you have to be able to do this other stuff.

Justin Pace 6:59
Yeah, it I agree. Yeah. And the model pool is getting shorter and smaller and smaller. And I think that’s why they’ve introduced wigs and hair pieces. And it’s got to be a percentage. And

Chris Baran 7:11
quite frankly, it’s, you know, if you can do it, if you can do it in real life, you can do it on a wig. And sometimes it’s harder to do. It’s harder to do on wigs and hair pieces than it is on a real person. So you really show your skill. Yeah,

Speaker 1 7:27
and I actually I disagreed with it for a long time. I’m like, you have to do it on a model. Technical, it’s all about placement. You can put a West in in the west or look like a cleaner line in a west than using normal hair. Because the way it moves and the way it’s disconnected. But then I started coloring wefts and was just like especially when they’re lighter. Yeah, if you’re getting a meta level nine level 10 They latest go pear shaped. Yeah, you’ve really got to know how to prep the hair. How what colors to use, it’s definitely not what you put on is what you get. So yeah, I agree with using weftst is another whole different coloring skill to using normal hair. Yeah,

Chris Baran 8:11
and for those of you watching and listening right now, is that what we’re talking about is as you can sometimes have to take a weft of hair where you could do a color placement that you don’t use your your magic that you’ve got on your brain, your knowledge or experience, and you know that this particular color does this result on this level. But it’s nothing like that, when sometimes you might have to take a blonde color and because of the processes that have been done to it beforehand, you may have to color that piece anywhere up to three to four times in order to get it to a resemblance of what it would do on a normal head of hair. Yeah, so

Justin Pace 8:48
and trading is a big part of it, you’ve got to trade and you got to remove the chemicals, you got to remove everything that’s been put onto the head because you’re gonna think some of these tears level two level three when it starts. You think if that was your I don’t know what they do to it, I probably don’t want to know what they do to it. But to get that lifted still have the hair in one piece. It goes to a lot of processes. So we’ve got to get the condition back to to get the colors work. I’ll

Chris Baran 9:18
give you a little hint this is something you may or may not know but actually they’re not that when they take a normal hairpiece and it comes as sometimes anywhere from a level two up to a level three because a lot of it is is from the Asian countries like they’ll just and actually quite frankly and there’s some some countries where their religion is that they have to they they cut off their hair as as I’m not gonna say a penance but the fact of paying homage and tribute and they grow the hair back but they don’t they donate it to the monks and amongst itself. I was every time I say that I can’t help but the old camp that evening that they, when they sell it to the people that make the pieces, they actually make money for it, which is good. When they when they actually take that they don’t use bleach on that hair to get it up, they use enzymes. Is that what it is? Yeah, they use an enzyme. And then it’s actually the coloring process is not with color, it’s actually with the same things that use for carpet dyeing. And that’s why that’s why it’s such as on tone and all of those things. So, you know, it’s really just interesting stuff. When you get into it. There’s a whole nother world out there.

Justin Pace 10:36
And it just seems to that because I do. I got a client who makes very beautiful rugs. And he’s Australian international company. But he’s got this massive production company over in India. And he we had a full conversation last year on how do you color hair because he’s almost now going to wolol. And like I said, from coloring the hair, the synthetic, not synthetic for the material that he was using before to wool is changing a completely different method, because he was like, how do you color hair? Because they’re just trying to try and trying to get the best results? So

Chris Baran 11:15
yeah, well, you know, I know we went down, you know, not a rabbit hole, because it was all very interesting, but that based on our experience together, but for people that might not know and I said in your introduction, that if anybody as you don’t know the name, if you know the work, even though you might not know the name, because when you when you look through your, your CV, your your bio, and see the work that you’ve got, and I’m sure that’s only because of limited space, you can only limit a number of it, but the amount of magazines that you’ve been in, in your work is absolutely incredible. And I say that as a friend and being truthful. Like I think what’s really important here is that, that I always like people to know, just their hair story, like, how did you get into here? What happened was or like, did you start in something and ended up in here or what? What’s your story?

Justin Pace 12:13
I think this is just a head a laugh the other day when you said you’re all fell into it, or you’re pushing to take your interview with Lindsey. and I it was a bit of both I going back when I was really young. I had cancer when I was two. So I had childhood. Yeah, titled cancer, but I was two from two to four. So I actually missed a lot of my early development of this learning. So yeah, how to got diagnosed with kidney cancer, and then got all the kids. Yeah, it was all okay by about four. But because of that all the chemo, or radiation, my teeth went rotten. So then I had to get my teeth ripped out. And then I went into preschool with no teeth. So my hearing was not my hearing wasn’t playing up. But yeah, just all the drugs I had in my body from the chemo. Outback they had grommets and all of that type of stuff had to get hearing tests. So I love school. But I struggled at school. Yeah, especially when it got through. So I always had you know, everyone was at school. I love sport. But yeah, lunchtime. Everyone was going to sport and I was in with the nuns, remedial lessons. absolutely hated it. Yeah, number one. Yeah. Going to a Catholic school. But back then we could get the cane, which I did. Yeah. And then you know, I wanted to be out playing footy and doing for the athletics and I’m stuck in a room doing remedial lessons. So I was fortunate enough, through school had a great bunch of mates, which you know, 4050 years later, we’re still friends. And when I got to high school, I was a private school. When I got to high school, I thought to myself, I wanted to be a teacher, or a furniture designer. I knew if I went to university, I wouldn’t have came out. I would have misbehave got kicked out wasted everyone’s time. So I knew that wasn’t going to be the case. And then I loved I loved making furniture. So then I thought about being a furniture designer, but I got brought up in a town called MCI, which is probably 80,000 People really small tourism and mining. So there wasn’t much room or space for furniture design. So I sort of said to dad, I’m leaving school, and he was like, You’re not leaving school. You get an apprenticeship, and you can leave school. So then every step back then there was the normal paper every Saturday, I just went applied for every single job that was in in the local paper and I end up getting A trial as a hairdresser. That was 16 and 16. I was grade 11. It was dry living at 16. And it was October I went for a trial and I got the job. So then I said to dad, I’m leaving school, I’m going to be a apprenticeship hairdresser. He was all for it. He knew I was creative. I painted, I loved art. I did very well at art. And then he was like, Well, if you leave, I want you to finish grade 11 Because I’ve got a feeling that you’re gonna get fired. So if you finish that, and if it doesn’t work, you come back. Well, I’m wasting your money. You’re paying for my fees. I wasted your money. I’m going now. So you can go now, but if you get fired, you’re going back to grade 11 and repeating right 11. So I went to I did everything to make it work. Everything. Yeah, I was there early. I was there late I back then. I’m 48. Now to I started 16. So it was I gave it my heart and I loved it. It was yeah, it’s probably a 16 year old working in a salon Full of Females. You know, in a country town. I absolutely loved it. It was it was that that part of it was fantastic. But then it was also I love the craft and I just got sucked in. Yeah, and then finished my apprenticeship. Back then it was four years. So therefore your apprenticeship from 16 to 18. moved to Brisbane straightaway, which is 1000 kilometers away. moved to Brisbane worked from 2000. I was 9696 to 2000 then packed my bags and went to London. So in 2018 2000 went to London, did two years over there actually took 12 months off. I was I was at crossroads. I was like do I still be ahead or do I pursue my career of being a builder or getting into the construction field. I wanted to work with Toby, one of my big dreams was work for Trevor. But I was in London and I wanted to live London. And at that stage all my friends that I’ve hairdressing with in Brisbane that came from brands like Brooke NiNis, and all of that those were really good friends with they were all working at mahogany and scenes and you know, all those brands, and I seen what dedication they will give him I just couldn’t I couldn’t I wanted to live London. I wanted to sort of experience what London was about. And I wanted to travel Europe when I was there. So I went into construction. So worked in a construction site for 12 months. Just as a first off as the actual handyman. I was gonna say teeny tiny then. But as a handyman, the company I worked for went broke. And I was just at the right place at the right time another company came in and bought it over. And then everyone walked off site though it was like you’re the only person standing I’m gonna put you on site foreman, you know the job. And I was like, Okay, I’ll give it a go. And then yeah, I was building. The first place was renovating the old church, which was just the beautiful building in Marlborough. This next salvages I absolutely loved it and then went into building the old gem factory building penthouses on top of gem factory, traveled Europe, came back to London realized I really missed hairdressing. So what works for lady who worked for Java. So we just did a really, really small cell on top and just behind top, my God loved it, and then came back to back to Brisbane. And then fast forward back to oh seven opened my salon with a business partner, then we separated in 2019 2020. Just before COVID And here I am with Compostelle on so that was 2020. So bit of a journey, but a great journey. And it’s given me Yeah, hairdressing has given me everything. That’s what people don’t understand. Yeah,

Chris Baran 19:30
I want to I want to jump just shortly into that into especially once you’ve got back because I’m sure being around London, and especially with doing a four year apprenticeship, which, like that’s really unheard of in the United States. You know, yeah. And so, I mean with and you know, I can remember and I’ve said this story several times, so if people need to get a cup of coffee or anything well, while I’m saying this you’ve probably heard me say this before, but uh Um, it’s really different nowadays than, then back when we started when you either had a three year apprenticeship or a four year apprenticeship. And, and not that it was wrong or right, or it was just different. And sometimes yes, you’re right that, you know, it was a lot of folding towels, sweeping floors and so on. But it was, you know, and it’s different things that you can, you can’t do really now, I don’t know, at least that people are going for us is that you would have nighttime was when all your training happened. So you would work all day. And then you would have to do trainings in the evening where you have to find models and come and do models and then get critiqued and so on, but it made you who you are, and gave you the disciplines. So I mean, this with all due respect right now, because I know you’ve traveled the world. And what it and I remember that going to Australia, the first time to do a show, it scared the hell out of me. Because I mean, it’s one of the things you know, and I don’t say one thing to do it in a North American country or in Latin America or wherever. But the Aziz are, are just very my language, but they’re kick ass when it comes to trend and, and, and the the movement that they have and how people are receptive to cutting and coloring. What do you tell me? What, give me your? What’s your kind of vibe on on that? Like, why? Why is that? What’s the vibe that you see from traveling the world and the differences in Australia? What’s the Australian hair scene? Like? Yeah,

Justin Pace 21:28
it’s tough. Like, if I think we had some really, really key hairdressers, especially in the 80s 70s and 80s, that you’re gonna see, back then we didn’t have internet. So, you know, and we’re so far away. And I think the biggest thing I see this, and the same, I don’t know if it’s because I was brought up this way. When you brought up in the country, you’re always want to move to the city to be better. You’re always want to, you always want to grow. If you’re that type of person. You’re always looking at what’s above what’s next. What’s next. What’s next. And I think Australia, like your started before with Canada, I think Australia’s Got a little bit of that attitude as well is, you know, I’ve made it’s not even I’ve made it in Australia, how can I get better? How can I get better? So, you know, straightaway, when you look at probably, you know, America in the UK, it even though the standard in both countries have very high. UK is if does a different to what US does, then, you know where we all brought up? Probably I used to students, I Oh, are you telling guy? Yeah, yeah, so I used position structured, you know, this way. And if you are then you either go for Sasoons or Sorbie, or, you know, all of those sort of guys. Or if you’re Tony and Guy, you sort of go to Tony die and go down that track. So I know, you know, Benny, and those people just traveled the world to make themselves better. And I think because of that they came back. And because we’re a little island in the middle of nowhere. The young ones couldn’t travel that much. So you had these leaders that were building really strong hairdressers, and then those hairdressers were bred to understand and I’ve heard this on one of your other podcasts that I’m absolutely believer in this. I think we need to build the history back in hairdressing

Chris Baran 23:37
and Pingle. Because

Justin Pace 23:41
we were brought up with who was Sassoon’s who was Sorbie. Who was Christopher? Yeah, who are these people that built the industry that understand what structure is and I still think Australia’s Got some of that. I tell you now if I ask my apprentices who Vidal Sassoon or Trevor Sorbie they’ll probably look at me sideways. And if the debate that we’re having at the moment, I’m actually I am going to next next training program introduced the history of head of the World hairdressing, because I think it’s really, really important. So I just think we’ve got that almost syndrome that we have to be better. So we we travel, we do courses, competition scene over here. It’s still really big. It’s going through a bit of a wave at the moment. So I think people still want to win them and people still want to not even win go through the process. And we’ve just had some great leaders that are very disciplined, and we still pretty strong as disciplined in this country with but there’s still a three year apprenticeship. So we still do a three year apprenticeship. There is training skills. We do have tapes that are our main core is still working, it’s still on for three years. And you’re doing an apprenticeship and you’re learning.

Chris Baran 24:53
Yeah, yeah. It’s interesting. I want to jump back to something that I think that you said was really important was that, you know, and, you know, I’m sure that you can go back. It’s our era remembers that we remember, Sassoon we remember Tony all the things that Tony and died did Ervin and Rita Rusk and all the people, the greats that came, that really they set the standards versus phones and so on. And that was our era, those old people before that, I mean, they changed and revolutionized everything. But they had, like, they had tz Wheezy before that. They had, you know, Mr. French, they had all those people that they looked at beforehand, and they just shifted it. So every era has somebody that came before them the change. And, and I, what I love about what you’re saying is that, I think that even in schools, they should be teaching that, that they whether it’s an apprenticeship program in the schools that you go to beforehand, if you have that, they should be teaching that. So people not so that you idolize those people. And I think that we’re both clear on that. But it’s so you know, where things came from? Like right now, if somebody came out with a wedge again, it’s been happening probably like 10 times for those of us who’ve been around I mean, I mean, like coming in fly by? Yeah, yeah, Firefly, they were all they were all those things were similar. But if they come up with them, now, everybody would go, Oh, that’s really cool. But they wouldn’t know that it was been done before. And you know, so and I’m not saying that there’s not new things. But you’ve got to know the history of wherever it came from the same as art, same as construction, the same as anything else. You got to know in with the people that came up with this first.

Justin Pace 26:37
I’m a massive believer in fundamentals. I build my brand, and I build why my what I’m about about fundamentals, and they never change. Right? Yeah. Yeah, even in engineering in you’ve got the fundamentals that that’s the structure that when you watch the History Channel, I love watching that, that in construction and history. It’s sometimes when they’re building these common buildings that they can’t figure it out. They’re going back 100 years ago, longer on, how did they make How did they make it work van and put those practices into buildings today? And I think that’s a big part of where we look at here. And, yes, we have to evolve. We have to move forward. But I think a lot of people just get caught up in that the shape, instead of how do I build that shape? In the fundamental to get it were very visual, I feel at the moment. That’s this way. I’m what I’m what I’m saying. Yeah,

Chris Baran 27:39
and I think that was probably what the 80s did to us. Because I mean, I’m sure everybody has her eye. First of all, don’t get me wrong, I love the 80s. Because it was that was really, it was where we were, we took discipline, and we went and let’s set that aside, and I got a new toy. And then and I called it the slash and burn era, because it was like cut pieces on a hair, tear it up, rip it up, and then make a do whatever. So it was a really different time. But it was fun. And it was about a feeling. But the thing was, is that you learn discipline, but you could still with discipline and have feeling added to it. It’s just like, I’m trying to remember the name, I bet Picasso I believe that said you have to know the rules. You have to know the rules like like an art, like you have to know the rules like a procedure can break them like an artist. And I think that’s what it always comes down to is that for those of us that had all that discipline, when something comes in that’s fresh and new and say that maybe you haven’t seen it before or you’ve seen it a different way, when you understand the principles, you could know how to break it down and recreate it instead of a treating like something that’s a brand new technique that you have to go and learn how to do.

Justin Pace 28:47
Yeah, yeah, you definitely. And that’s that’s one thing when I’m when I’m working on classes, then I always say, if you break a rule, you have to know why. So you can fix them. Yeah, because if you can’t fix it, why break it? Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, that’s why we’re in a, we’re in a creative industry. But you’re always gonna have people that want to be creative and to be creative. Most of the time, we’ve got to break a rule. As you should. Yeah. And you don’t have to break the rule. But that’s the rebel missing in US creatives that we break up thinking we kill. But that’s how we get that’s how we get to look sometimes. Yeah,

Chris Baran 29:31
yeah. And it’s also, I don’t think we stress this enough is that sometimes if you break a rule, and it works, that’s called evolution, and you can do something with it, but if you break, you break a rule, you break the rule, and it’s a screw up. Well, then then that’s a mistake. And you go, okay, good. I don’t do it again. And that’s called experience. You know, so what have you. Yeah,

Justin Pace 29:53
well, what have you learned from that? Yeah, I know you and I have been a massive believer in you We have to make mistakes. And yeah, I definitely would not be here today at all with the amount of absolute efforts that I’ve done in just learning the process of getting to the next. Yeah, if I’m, if I’ve got somewhere and I haven’t made if I, if I haven’t made a mistake or stuff something up. I haven’t pushed myself hard enough. So I actually keep doing it until I know. Okay, that hasn’t worked. That hasn’t worked. That hasn’t worked. That’s worth. Okay, awesome. I can now move forward on that, because I know I’ve pushed it that many times where it hasn’t worked. And now I’ve got it to work. I can now move forward on that day. Yeah, I think that’s really important as I’ve had with anyone we have to get outside of that comfort zone. And we have to break rules to do that.

Chris Baran 30:52
It’s just, I mean, it’s sometimes in invention. I’m going to give an example that it didn’t come up with it. It’s been said 1000 times, but I think it applies here. You know, when they asked Edison, why when he invented the light bulb, and they said, they said, Well, what was it like to make make 1000 mistakes before you actually made the light bulb? And he said, Well, I didn’t make 1000 Because this had to do when he was trying to find the filament inside the LED bulb to make it flowing. Yeah. And he said, I can tell you, I didn’t make 1000 mistakes. But I can tell you 990 things that won’t light up a light bulb. So and I think that’s the that’s the, you know, in our, in our society that we have right now. And I’m not going to attribute to any of it. I’m not going to say that we didn’t have it when we were used, etc. And I’m not going to be that that old man with a gray beard looking out my window would get off my lawn. But, but I do think that sometimes we put the fear of God into people. And I blame that on partially on our school system, not on teachers, but on our school system. That it’s about, we take that wonder out of people bet and they’re so afraid to do anything that they won’t make a mistake. And I think to me, that said,

Justin Pace 32:07
I seen a great video yesterday on I’m not on Tik Tok. It was on Instagram. And it was exactly that we’ve been brought up with fear. And they actually had a group of kindergarten kids put in a room full of slides. And the slides are all over them. And these kindergarten kids are sitting there patting their heads and the snakes are all over I’m and yeah, and it was about I don’t even know what the story was about. But it was it was almost like training the parent that you know, don’t let the kids be kids. They’re okay. Yeah, as those they don’t understand the and it was such a sitting there watching it this mind blown away. This is like we are we are trying to, to understand fear for safety. But because of that, where we sometimes are very restrictive.

Chris Baran 33:02
This episode is sponsored by the salon associate accelerator from trainers playbook.com. Are you struggling with the time and cost of associate training? Do you feel like your salon is running you will get your associates on the floor, all with 90% Less time from you. So you can get back to building your business. Get them world class design, finishing color, and client care skills they’ll use every day for the rest of their career. While you focus on realizing your vision, go to trainers playbook.com and get the salon associate accelerator. And now back to the show. You know, it’s a perfect segue because I want to jump into the training programs because, you know, let’s face it with being two times winner of the insulin training program or awards with in Australia that, you know, first of all, again, congratulations. But I want to talk about that. But I think it’s a perfect setup. Because we all we train the way that we were trained, we teach the way that we were taught and you know, and there’s a parent, you know, like there is no instruction manual. And so what we’re talking about letting play with snakes etc. I mean to some they might go and do we want to define what kind of snakes those were. But the reality is this is that if you if a kid I can remember and I don’t know where it came from. I just am an absolute phobia about spiders. And you can imagine when I went over to Australia, what that did to me when I saw spiders that the body was the size of the fist. However, there had to be somewhere along the line where I had was maybe I had a spider in my hand and and maybe it was poisonous. Maybe it was not and somebody went No. And then immediately my response is Oh, that’s a bad thing I’m on now I should be afraid because some But he said that implied I could get hurt. Now, I want to jump that back. Because we probably did that to our kids. And one of my kids is listening right now he’s producing the show. And it probably was laid some heavy stuff on him along the way that, but nonetheless, in our training programs, like I want to jump into, because I think sometimes because of that, as a trainer, we can really mess up our trainings where people don’t want to learn. So I want to just jump back in and to think, first of all, is in when you’ve been into the US, etc. Have you noticed anything? What’s the big differences that you’ve noticed in either, you know, hiring processes, training processes, etc, in you see between the two countries or just as, as an overall general world? Yeah,

Justin Pace 35:48
I think that set up probably different in in Australia, we still have a three year, three years now that we have a three year apprenticeship. And the skills were there, like we have a three apprenticeship where you have to come into work every day working with salon, but for government regulations to be signed off by the government to get your certificate, you then still have to do type. So we I’ve been fortunate enough, I work with Queensland TAFE, which allow our government body, but they come to us once every three weeks, four weeks, then probably two hours with our apprentices go through the technical stuff that they have to know to be signed off. Within the salon, I’ve got my own training program. Now, we have a school where you can go and pay X amount of money, do a 12 month program, after that 12 month program you come out as what we classed as a level level to where you go back into the salon and you vendors have to complete your time within the salon to get signed off to be salon ready. So I feel that that’s probably more likely us because you go to you go to school for a period of time, don’t you and then go into a salon. But are you already signed off when you go into the salon? Or do you still have to sell on time?

Chris Baran 37:10
Yeah, no, there is generally I mean, there’s two kinds of formats that you have here. And it’s really different because you have one governing body and over all of the you all of Australia. Zooming in, we have 49 states here in the US, every state has different regulations. And some, some will say you have to go to school and some say can say you can you might be able to go to and do an apprenticeship and enjoys being trained in the salon. So but generally, and then maybe this is a great segue to go there is to find out what we’re finding here in the US, at least with my conversations that I’ve had with a myriad of I don’t know what the word myriad is, but I tried to make my sound really sound like I’m very knowledgeable and intellectual. There’s a lot of people that I’ve talked to that have, they just said that there is a staffing issue that we have here simply because of the youth get off my lawn. Those the youth they they don’t want to they don’t want to have they want to spend six months a year, you know, sweeping and part of it is is this whole, I believe just my opinion not based on fact or anything else. But I think it has to do with listen, if I can go to McDonald’s and work and get $17 an hour. Why do I want to apprenticeship for whatever portion less than that have to do a year of that. And I mean, there’s a whole bunch of other reasons. Number one, if you go to work at McDonald’s, that is your salary you’re going to have for the rest of your life. Whereas you can build up in our industry, you can make anything you want. But that’s my plug for our industry. But that’s created a problem here. And do you have that problem? Yes.

Justin Pace 38:55
Yeah, staffing issues as well. Like, where? What massively, that’s what’s holding us back at the moment growing is staff. And yeah, I think the whole model of hairdressing and Australia’s changed from the really, really big salons coming back more into beauty. Yeah, where we’ve got a couple of problems inside this is my opinion. But yeah, there’s what I believe in. And what I see is way now, a couple of things. We’re not getting the apprentices applying at a younger age. So we have a rural here as well is with apprentices under 21. You get paid X amount of money over 21 You get paid a lot more. So it’s extra $10 an hour if you’re over 21. So what we’re finding is from 16 to 21. We’re not getting many people apply. Why are we well, what we’re tapping into that market is we do a school based apprenticeship here. So you can be in grade 11 and 12. Go to school. Don’t get your dog go to school, but then the school releases you to go and do apprenticeship. So that can be in hairdressing and building and like electrician anything, so you get you still get your grade 12 certificate. But you come out with also to date in your apprenticeship. I love that method because I get them young. And when they if they do two years doing a part time apprenticeship when they’re coming full time with me, even though they’ve only not six months of their time there, I make them come on the day that we train to this, you’re training like one of my normal apprentices. So they’re already two years into their apprenticeship in training, but six months off their time. So that’s so far ahead. So I really liked the skill base system. But what we’re finding is people are going and doing other things, like you said, working at McDonald’s and other industries where they’re getting a lot of money per hour, coming to 21 realize that they want to do something different, but then coming back. But what that’s doing is putting a massive wage load on on salon’s to go well, it’s only four give you that it’s $4 difference from a first year to a senior when they’re over twenty one. So it’s not much at all. So yes, I still believe and this is the structure that I like to have. If you don’t know how to swim before properly, you don’t know how to take a session properly. So I’m still very disciplined in sweeping the floor folding towels. Looking at the mirrors, I have a checklist for morning daily checklist that afternoon daily checklist, that there’s a process that they have to do. Now, some apprentices don’t like that. And it’s like fine, that’s okay. But if you want to be the best person that you want to be if you want to earn the best money that you can believe in, and trust me, I’ve got staff that are on very good money, I’ve got staff that are on more money than someone who’s gone to university for four years and got a accounting degree. But to be there, you’ve got to put the hard work in and I sort of, I treat my apprenticeship like a degree. And I tell that in my interview, if you want to be a hairdresser, that’s fine, go and be a hairdresser. But if you want to be a profession, and have a degree in hairdressing, then I’m the salon, because I’ll get you there. But I need your commitment because it’s there’s ticks and boxes. And everything I do is structured the boxes. I’ve got spreadsheet on top, a spreadsheet on top, a spreadsheet for everything. And I feel that that’s where that structure is with the apprenticeship base. The other problem that we’re fighting with while we can’t get stashes were now also probably going down the US model is where we’ve got a lot of furniture if so we’ve got now salons coming in, where they’re building a space. They’ve got a receptionist and they that’s it. So they got someone who’s booking appointments, and then each has rent rented separately. So that’s one model, the old tradition in Australia is I employ everyone. So everyone gets a weekly check for me goes to the bank account, no matter how many clients they do. But we’re going down the big rental chair situation at the moment and say My opinion is when you’re ready to chair you don’t need a pen. So it’s just that so they’re not putting them on. Because that market is growing. Our market is shrinking. So we’ve got a body called Australian head within council that looks after our industry salons like this now where we’ve got a full full both employee were under 40% of the industry now. The other 60% is made up of rented chairs and rental spaces and home hairdressing. So the industry is changing. And I do think that because of that we haven’t got the people coming through. And with we’re not fighting over it. We have a really big respect. Especially in Brisbane. If I’ve got another staff member that comes from another salon, I pick up the I pick up the phone straight away and we’re gonna do you know that just sitting here for interview, we have that respect between each other and yeah, yeah, which I think

Chris Baran 44:16
yeah, I mean, you know, just have so many things there and I’m writing down so many notes. I probably won’t get back to them, but just because this one came up right now. They’re over in the US there is some people that we’ve been how would you say advising to poach? They say look at other people had hunt other people poach and and you know, and I think if somebody is seen as a leader in the industry, that they that people might be say, Okay, well, it’s okay for me to poach now. But I think again, it’s about your own personal values that you do, and your relationships that you have with people. So, you know, I just think that you know, it Universal will come around and bite you in the took us. You know, if you poach, then don’t be Don’t Don’t be that be so I really I really think that exactly. I mean, I want to know that if somebody’s there and if somebody comes to me and I we did the same thing when I had my salons back in Canada is if somebody applied, I’d say, you know, here’s what it is, we will do it First we’ll have an interview. But you gotta go and quit first. Yeah, yep. If you quit if you quit, and you’re fair game, but if you’re, if you’re just have your job now and you want to apply, I’m going to listen, but you better you better I like your approach, I’m going to call that person but it would have to me I just don’t I’m not I don’t like poaching from other businesses. I think if

Justin Pace 45:48
I if I just don’t do it, I don’t agree with it, I do it. Ethically, it’s like the old saying treat others do want to be treated and do not want my thoughts and get approached. And I think in Brisbane, we’ve got a pretty good understanding. You know, I’ve got some great names. Yeah. So you just, you just don’t do it and and all day in the interview. You’re here. You’re here, because if this goes to the next step, I’m gonna ring Chris to go. Do you know, I’ve got Justin sitting in my chair, wanting to come work for me? What’s the like? Number one? What’s the like? Number two? Do you know that he wants to leave? You know, do you want to have opportunity first before I put him on, to have a chance to change any, any situations that are happening at work? But if you’re happy to get let them go? You know, that’s okay. But we always Yeah, yeah, I literally had a phone call with someone yesterday who I kind of code with in the country, because one of the staff members has come with me and has applied for a job and they’ve got this job. And they’ve been out of the industry for two years. But because of that, even though they’ve been out of the industry for two years, that was the last person that I’ve worked with, out of a spec that was like, you know, this person is coming back into the industry. So I think but yeah, I don’t know. I’m a big believer is you keep they’re not even enemies. You keep your friends, your salons. Your best friends. Yeah, I’ve got one of the biggest salons into that right, one of the biggest Australian brands down the road, which is which of the red fin sell up? Quite often just processing solution, or can I grab some five double? And it’s like, yeah, I’ll place it down. Like, yeah, I think it’s so important to have that relationship. Yeah. Which I’m finding when losing that. I hear a little bit.

Chris Baran 47:45
Yeah. And I think it comes along when when, when you lose, you know, I think that listen, I think that I’m fine with with with independence with booth rent, and I’m fine with commission and I’m fine with wage people’s. But I just think that is what can happen when you’re on your own, or industry tends to lose the culture. And I think that’s that’s kind of what can happen is you have a body of people that have cultures, maybe different cultures within each business, but when you lose the culture in the industry, then then it goes on and you know, quite hard if you look at it, it’s not the first time. You know, we went through that it was in the 70s. We went through the same thing and we came out of it the other end. And I think it’s it’s nothing at the problems that we’re having now. There’s nothing new, it’s all still it’s all been around. We’ve had it before we just have to go look at our history. You said something really interesting. And I just wanted this last thing on poaching. But I you know, we have a mutual friend and Benny talk meanie. And and I never forget this that Benny saying to one of his staff. You know, listen, and it’s these are my words that I’m going to use on this next question, not his many probably would be a little more blunt. But they would say look, you’ve gone you’ve gone but you haven’t left yet. And he said that look at I think that I need to help. You don’t seem to be happy here. And I would love to help you find another salon that you would be happy in. And I went What a great way. I mean, it’s just like, if you recognize your staff aren’t happy, either a rectify it. But if it still continues, help them find another place because they’re talented, and they should work. And I think that I want to jump back though before because, you know, based on time here, I want to jump back and I want to give people like if what are some in your training systems? And we know we’ve got we know that it’s three years there and some people who are here watching or listening right? Well, we don’t have three years. Yep. But if they have a training system what what are some of the key elements that you really believe in or have set up in your training system that you have that obviously they work because you know twice you’ve won insulin training? What would you tell those people what what are the training things that you do that, you know, some of them might be the same, but everybody’s listening for something new.

Justin Pace 50:05
Yep. It’s just, yeah, I could talk about this. We could we could talk about this a week. And I know you’re passionate about this as well, Chris. But the main things I’d probably say, number one, you have to dedicate time. Yeah, it’s it doesn’t matter what it is exactly. What you said before was, we used to train outside of work, we’re not allowed to do that. Now with our regulations, we have to do it in salon time. So I paid for it. And they pay for it. And so what I do is I close the salon on Friday morning. So today, we will actually, we normally open a 10. So I’ll start training at 10. So the salon’s closed on 10 or 12, completely. And we did two hours dedicated training. And then obviously, the colorist and stuff run longer because it takes, so you have to have a dedicated time weekly, that does not change, it does not budge, right? That that’s the time that we train. And if you haven’t gotten a model, you need to catch up. The other thing that I find that really, really working to have a structure in place, that you have to make sure they’re on time, because what I mean by this is, models don’t turn off, people don’t get models, and it’s the wrong model. So what I do have a structure is if you start say, blow during blow drying, I know that it’s 16, it’s 16 to 20 Blow drive that you have to do. So 20 weeks, I have an exam date. Yeah. So I do not budge that exam date. So I give them their two hours a week, if they don’t train those two hours, they have to make it up and 20 a week, they still do exam on how to blow dry and I have a full exam to get out of what they have to do. Now, if they’ve missed every single training, I don’t care, they still have that exam in they have to, they have to sit it because if they don’t sit that exam in 20 weeks, then they’re falling backwards. So this is how I keep them accountable of keeping on track. Now, in Australia, and I don’t know what it’s like there, we cannot dismiss anyone until we give them three warnings. So we have to give them three warnings, we’ve got to go through coaching, and all of that, and this is something I picked up people might say this is too harsh. But I think this is how you get the discipline and get it through. If you fail that exam, you get a warning. So if you fail the first exam, it’s a verbal warning, because it’s like, Okay, what’s happened, we go through some coaching. Second warning is a written warning, then fire. So a second fire is a third one written warning. So and on the third, we can actually dismiss them. I’ve never had anyone hit the third. I’ve had people hit the second, but they know this is serious. I’m gonna lose my job over this. You know, I know people get soft on this because it’s hard to find apprentices. But I have always said I’d rather have no apprentices than have bad apprentices, or not even bad apprentices trying to fix those don’t have the right attitude. Because I believe I can train anyone, if you’ve got the right attitude. And so it’s that those three structures I think, is what you have to stick to, then you have to stick to it. You can’t go I’ve had a really bad week financially. No one’s training this week. You train like you have to. If you’re not putting that time in you’re not gonna get results.

Chris Baran 53:37
Yeah, I love what you’re saying there because I, I’ve got well, there was consistency structure and then I heard was like it’s the testing, right, that

Justin Pace 53:47
thing. Everything’s tested. So even as I go through the first one, a quick rundown. The first one is policy, procedures and champers. So you have to know all our rules, all our policies, all our procedures, and you have to do a shampoo exam. So that’s four weeks, there’ll be going through a blow drying, classic, best bras round brush, setting, body blow dries, top tongue was everything you need to know that six, eight weeks, then we go into cutting and coloring, we spread that over. What we also do is it’s five week, five, five week I turn into five weeks cutting five weeks color. So you can get that run when mixing it up a little bit. Now we used to specialize. So you either cut or color, we’re opening that back up so you can do both. And then a bit every time there is a date. There’s exam. Yeah, but we’re also now testing as we go. So instead of waiting at 16 weeks, and going you failed, we’re trying to you know win flight we set people up to pass away that set people up to fail. So we’re now testing almost every couple of weeks. Going on Mike was go you know, I feel you’re at that level where you Gotta do a little mini exam. It doesn’t mean anything. But I just want to see if you add the standard that you’re doing. So we’re constantly doing doing many tests and making sure that at the level that they should be before it gets too late. Yeah,

Chris Baran 55:14
I love what you’re saying. And I know, this is one thing with us, we profess that people should be using what we call a minimum salon standard, that, you know, and it’s not that you have to have a standard for everything that’s being done. You know, like, nobody is going to be turning out after, you know, three years of apprenticeship and be on par with with you. But there’s got to be an insulin. There’s got to be a salon minimum standard, that when a walks out the door that you say, that meets our standard, that that’s good work, you know, and I love that.

Justin Pace 55:49
Yeah, they’re not allowed to touch a client until they’ve passed that that level. Yeah.

Chris Baran 55:54
All disciplines are in that in that

Justin Pace 55:58
in that discipline. So if they have to pass the shampoo exam before they are allowed to shampoo, they have to pass the blowdryer exam before they can blow dry. And we could be thinking in the we could have blow dryers lined up we could have if they hadn’t passed that exam. I’m not let them blow dry. Like, that’s, that’s an exercise, right? We have a tape, the tape standard, and the Queensland standard that we have to abide by. But that’s, that’s just a ticket flick box to get a piece of paper. Yeah, depending on the level of salons. And this is why I think this is transferable. Because your salon style, it could be different to my salon standard. Exactly. You just pick what your salon standard is. It doesn’t have to be up here. If there’s different models within the industry, you just pick your cell on standard and make sure that your assistant or your colleague is at that venue before you let them touch it. And that I think that you keep with consistency there.

Chris Baran 57:01
You know, I just I just have to say this, you know, like I told you at the very beginning and everybody watching listening right now, you know, we always have a little bit of a chat before we go on. And I was telling Justin, just before we went on, look at I’ve got a whole bunch of questions on here. Are we lucky if we get to half? And I think we’ve got two or three. So probably want to say is just make sure you comment, get a hold of us if you want to hear more, Justin, because I know that this guy has so much information, just comment on us. And wherever I mean, my my team runs this. So I don’t even know if you can comment on this. But just send us a note. If you want to hear more of him. We come back but we’re at that rapid fire stuff that we’ve got right now. So and just first thing that comes out of the top of your head and these number of questions. What turns you on and the creative process? Oh,

Justin Pace 57:50
great. What turns me on in the creative process? Removing or removing, being able to remove or the disciplines that I’ve been taught.

Chris Baran 58:03
Oh, interesting. Yeah,

Justin Pace 58:08
I think the hardest thing is, is we get caught up in our heads too much the older we get. So to be able to remove them and be a child again, is Yeah, I love it when I get when I can get my head space there.

Chris Baran 58:20
Yeah, I love it just being childlike in the process. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What so what stifles the creative process for you?

Justin Pace 58:31
overthinking

Chris Baran 58:34
what thing what thing in life in general life in general, that you do you love the most?

Justin Pace 58:39
Oh, what do I love in my job? In the I think being positive, and it’s a hard thing to be very hard thing to be in these days. But, you know, just, we’re here. Where were we? We’ve here we’ve got things around. It’s always Yeah, look at the positive things of life. Yeah.

Chris Baran 59:01
Roger. Roger. I was talking to Roger Molina one time, and we were talking. I can’t remember what we were talking about. And whether it was it had something to do with being in a relationship with one another. And he says, he said to me, brother, we’re breathing the same air right now. So of course I like what what you’re saying what you’re doing. I just thought that Yeah, really. So what in life in general? What do you dislike the most

Justin Pace 59:26
negativity? People who put people down the people that put people down to make themselves look better and just negativity? It is frustrating.

Chris Baran 59:38
Yeah, that’s just jealousy rearing its head I see. In our industry, what do you love the most?

Justin Pace 59:49
The opportunities that they can give you, you know, I, I was the person who left the girl that’s seen, traveled the world and got paid for it. So I think people underestimate what this industry can give you.

Chris Baran 1:00:04
Greed. And in the industry, what do you dislike the most about it?

Justin Pace 1:00:11
The internal competitions that’s negative.

Chris Baran 1:00:15
Yeah, there you go. person that you admire the most.

Justin Pace 1:00:19
Whoa. Great question. I probably have to say my father, a massive, massive mentor in me growing up and helping me where I am today just Yeah. Hard. A hard working man. And that’s why yeah, I’ve picked up a lot from him.

Chris Baran 1:00:41
Is he still with us? Yeah, he

Justin Pace 1:00:43
is. He you

Chris Baran 1:00:47
tell him that you tell him that? Yeah, I’m sure you do. Yeah. Now this is an interesting one. Your most prized possession?

Justin Pace 1:00:59
Oh. I’m gonna non-financially I’m gonna have to send my wife.

Speaker 2 1:01:11
She looks after me. She’s She’s the backbone to sort of who I am today. She’s helped me.

Justin Pace 1:01:18
I think sometimes. Decisions doesn’t have to be bought. You know, we’ve been together for years. She Yeah. She teaches me a lot as well. Like, it’s her discipline is phenomenal. So yeah, I’d have to say I’m lucky to have her in my life. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:01:38
A person that you wish you could meet.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:41
That’s a hard one.

Justin Pace 1:01:43
person I could I probably have to go down. I’ve met some really interesting people in this career that you do. Yeah, I love people who probably aren’t in the famous wild, like people who have experienced world changing heart surgeon or someone who just gives so much to Yeah, to the eye. That’s, that’s where I get my, my drive from and my passion is, is not anyone sort of big. It’s like, how did you get there and no one knows who you are. Both sort of that type of that type. That type of person. Probably couldn’t name a person but that type of person.

Chris Baran 1:02:34
I love it. Something that people don’t know about you.

Justin Pace 1:02:40
Probably said it before. Work in London on construction for Trump was

Chris Baran 1:02:44
interesting. I love that. I would have never guessed that in a million years. A month, month off didn’t have to do here. Where would you go? What would you

Justin Pace 1:02:54
do? Oh, month off. Definitely leave here. Go to my favorite. I guess my favorite country Japan. Yeah, eat their food by their clothes. Definitely go back to London. It’s a second home for me by New York, I love that place and then finish up on a remote island to charge my batteries before I come back to work.

Chris Baran 1:03:19
Yeah, there you go. Thing that terrifies you

Justin Pace 1:03:24
losing the closest thing. Losing the closest things to me like my wife, my dad and my mom. That sort of type of stuff. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:03:37
Favorite curse word.

Justin Pace 1:03:40
I do walk around the house when I’m frustrated going off and finish eating cake. And then I normally add a couple of other words behind that depending on how frustrated I am

can be used in so many different ways as well. multiple different ways they can go behind that that your website

Chris Baran 1:04:08
your favorite comfort food Japanese or something in the industry they I love Japanese food I’ve won when we’re on next I will tell you the story about them asking me if I if I loved clams and I said I love clams and then well being they brought up this lamb that was about a foot and a half wide and and covered it in salt and seaweed and did it on hamachi grill and I got the green part and it was paid for by a major company so when I said I loved it I had to eat everything that they put on my plate while I was slightly gagging but I know but I do love Japanese food. The let’s see 101 Do over if you had to do over in your life, what would it be?

Justin Pace 1:05:05
Go back and work for Trevor. Sorry. Oh,

Chris Baran 1:05:08
see, I talked about that one too. I had. That was one of my goals. I wanted to just leave everything. Go over work for Trevor. But I didn’t have I didn’t have the cojones to do it. So yes, I still kicking

Justin Pace 1:05:19
myself. At the regret. Yep.

Chris Baran 1:05:23
Tomorrow, you couldn’t do hair. I think I know where you’d go with this. But tomorrow, you couldn’t do hair. What would you do?

Justin Pace 1:05:32
Oh, yeah, I I’d say building. I probably wouldn’t say building. I love it. But I’m getting too old for it.

Chris Baran 1:05:41
Yeah, that’ll take a lot out of it. Yeah. All you have to do is like bend over and pick up something 25 times a day. And you’d say that. Yeah, I don’t want to do this anymore. Listen, before I ask you one final question here. Like when you’re traveling about and everybody listened to that? And if they know you’re in the area, and they want to get in one of your trainings or do whatever, what how would they get ahold of you?

Justin Pace 1:06:06
Yeah, like it’s, we’re pretty open in Australia. Obviously, I work for Red King. So you can you can reach out. If you want Australia could definitely reach out to that. But I’m very much on my social media. I don’t have tick tock. But I do have Instagram, which is this pace, Justin. So yeah, if anyone wants to reach out I, I traveled by myself and do education around Australia who also do it with with red kin. But we also do looking at doing some international stuff soon as well. So most of the pay for pipelines is a lot harder to organize. But pace, Justin, I’m here. I’m happy to talk about anything furniture, business training, anything. Love it.

Chris Baran 1:06:50
And that’s PACEJU s t i n Correct.

Justin Pace 1:06:55
That’s it. I won’t get corrected. But I’m in the US on how you spell it. But yes, it’s pap.

Chris Baran 1:07:01
And okay, so if you had one wish for our industry, what would it be?

Justin Pace 1:07:11
I want to know, I’ve created a competition called curae. I really want the young one to find that passion in the young hairdressers again to to move them forward to keep this industry really strong and keep going. I don’t want to lose this industry. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:07:32
Yeah, no, I agree. And just for people that are listening to it right now, he should probably go on. They’ve got a curate awards, and that you should probably check out and for but it is more mainly for the Australian hairdressers, etcetera. Yes, it’s not. Currently, it’s not a worldwide one. It’s just basically out of Australia. Yet

Justin Pace 1:07:56
at this stage, have them Australia, I’m going to break it here we are going to New Zealand. I haven’t told anyone yet. So we are expanding to New Zealand next year. It’s only for Australian apprentices. So the whole idea about it is building. Our apprentices have given them the motivation and the passion. So they’re not folding towels and sweeping floors. Yet they’re doing that on a discipline in the salon, but have created a platform that they can be as creative as they want. Get their work in front of amazing people like yourself. Yeah, and to build that passion and gain in what I had as an apprentice. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:08:34
And so I take my hat off to that, but I just it’s really, it’s really, and I think it’s something that should be done over here in America as well to give people their in line. I mean, everybody has a lot of people have the awards for the newcomers, et cetera. But I loved your I love yours, how you have to do something, walk them through the full process of what they have to do. They have to do a video on why they should get the awards, etc. And I think that it’s not just about just producing an image. And you have to you have to prove and show that you’ve done it on your own and somebody else hasn’t done it for you. And I’m not implying anything with that statement about any other award. But yeah, listen, Justin. God, I miss you, brother. It’s been such a pleasure having you on here. And you know what, we just got to continue this more often. Just because just a zoom call between you and I. And I must say, I’ve got to have you on again, because I got so much stuff I have to I don’t want to waste this question. So that’s the only reasonable John again. And I’d love it. So here’s what for those of you watching and listening right now is if you can just on your platform, you know, if you like what’s going on, and you like the format we have here if you just if you go on to the platforms, you know, and I realize this is a begging situation. So I bet I won’t do it with a whiny voice. If you can just give us five stars or whatever just so we get more people watching and it would be awesome. And so I want to say thank you and Justin One more time, your true true friend and a true patriot for our industry. And I just want to say thank you for being on board here with us.

Justin Pace 1:10:09
Thank you so much for the invitation, Kurth. It’s, I’m blown away to be able to share what you’ve taught me and what other people have taught me and then send you straight. So thank you for having me.

Chris Baran 1:10:20
Pleasure. Cheers.


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