ep95 – Sonya Dove, Sharon Blain, and Candy Shaw, pt2

This is Part 2 of the wildly informative and entertaining session with the great Sonya Dove, Sharon Blain, and Candy Shaw.

• 2:40 – The power of no, and the support of family
• 7:01 – Abundance vs scarcity mindset
• 23:04 – Navigating burnout and staying inspired
• 27:52 – Developing taste and the eye for beauty
• 59:01 – Final thoughts

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. You we’re about to get into part two of my podcast with Sharon Blane, Candy Shaw and Sonya Dove. We were having so much fun that we went a little bit long, and now you get to reap the benefits of more of these amazing powerhouse women. If you haven’t heard part one, do yourself a favor. Give that a listen and then come back so you don’t miss out. Let’s get back to part two, with Sharon Candy and Sonya on head cases. You know, this is one thing that I’m always interested in, is I watch you ladies, and you give and you give and you give to the industry sometimes. And I, and I’m just because my words, but it might even be when you say to a fault, it’s just you give and you give and you give. And we, my, one of my teachers, had this expression that that said, and he talked about life force particles, you know, because when you’re constantly giving. It’s like, you know, the life force particles. I always imagine, like, when you see that everybody’s made of dots, and then you can get these dots are drawn away from you. Sometimes they they use that visualization in different characterizations. But I know that sometimes, when I’m giving, giving, giving all the time, and, you know, and you come home at night, you’re just like drawn and it’s like you’ve had everything pulled out of you and and that’s when I talk about life force particles, like they they’re pulling this stuff out of you. What do you guys do to replenish? Because you got to have something to get your life force particles back. Please. God bless, God bless.

Candy Shaw 2:03
Sonya dances and goes to yoga. I already know hers. Yes, you do. Mine is probably a lot of rest. You know, the power of No. I think that’s, that’s what, that’s what helps me, the power of No. You know, even on the road, people say, can I go to dinner? Let’s go to dinner. Let’s do this. And I say, No, you know, I have that balance of you know, I set those boundaries, I guess. But to really replenish my soul, it’s spending time with my family and my grandchildren. I mean, Sharon has the same beautiful family that she gets to get them out there to hose down her mannequins and clean them in the garden. You know, it’s laughter, too. And I, you know, when I need a good laugh, I mean, I pick up the phone, I can call either these ladies and just, you know, get just howling. And I think too, you know, when you feel down, you make down decisions. And so I really hard not to let myself stay there. I make an appointment with myself to get back up. I mean, it’s not easy. It’s not easy doing the things that we do, whether you’re building a brand or working for a brand or teaching what it doesn’t matter what you’re doing. It’s it’s hard work, and I think just the power of no is important, because you will make terrible decisions by being strung out too far and and like you say, the serotonin suckers, you know, they just suck it out. You have nothing to replenish your soul, but friendships and relationships, I think that’s the most powerful thing that I love the most. No amount of money could make me happier than to look at these two beautiful women and to know they’re my friends. You know that that’s, that’s where it’s at. Oh,

Sharon Blain 3:56
that’s lovely. Wow. That really

Candy Shaw 3:59
is true. I’m

Sharon Blain 4:00
always very lucky that it’s I’m always on a flight that’s never less than 1010, hours. And I’m really also blessed that I can sleep there’s 10 hours. The minute I get on that flight, I can fall asleep. So sleep is one of my saviors. But to be honest, the next day, when I’m home, if I can’t get my grandkid fix. I’m feeling like I, you know, I had to drive the other day to have a fix because my daughter was busy. I said, Okay, I’m just going to crash over there because I just need to have a fix with the grandkids. You know, I think we’re so blessed to be surrounded by beautiful family and children and grandkids, and they really my children keep me absolutely, you know, solid. My son will say, Mom, you don’t need to do this job. You know, you don’t need to enhance your name anymore. Because, you know, I’ll say, oh, such and such is happening. Say, mom, how much are they paying you for that? Oh, no, I’m not. I’m not. No. Know, you’re not doing that. You don’t need to do freebies anymore. But you know, in a way, it’s, it’s, I don’t know about you women, but through lockdown, one of those most significant things for me was the isolation, and particularly for the two years that we were locked down in Australia, so we didn’t have a flight leaving Australia for two years, and I never realized how much the students gave me. There was one thing, you know, we are giving all the time, but there, there are response and their appreciation for what you’re giving them. I didn’t even put that together until I didn’t have it on social. When you’re doing online, you don’t get that feedback when you go in. And I was talking to the guys in Weller last week, because the very first class I did after lockdown was in the Weller Academy in Toronto, and beautiful Fay, we went out to dinner, and I will never forget that after two years and be finally going back into the classroom after two years, the emotional outpouring, not only from the students, because they were finally in a class. Some had booked this class two years prior, and they had their tickets were on hold, but I didn’t realize how much they gave me, what the students gave me back, and I walked out of there feeling, oh, my God, this is like what I’ve missed for so long, that relationship, the appreciation of what you’re sharing their will and their drive to make the the tasks that you’ve set them the best so that they I’d be proud of them, but, you know, they gave me so much more back. I don’t think they realized they how they filled my cup. So, you know, it is a very interesting situation that I think we’re in. And I and I mean the value of students and the feedback, I think the family environment and the friendship. I mean, I called a lot of friends years ago, because when they take my energy, I don’t actually need them as friends anymore. You know, they will use my energy. So I only want to surround myself with people that give me absolute happiness and joy, and so it’s a handful of people that give me that. So they are now my newest, nearest and dearest. But you know, the family and the children. I mean, we’re so blessed to have that. That’s what definitely keeps me going. I love it. Well said,

Sonya Dove 7:31
well said, Sharon,

Chris Baran 7:34
you know, there’s so many pearls that you guys talk about that I’ve got all sorts of stuff written down in here, and I, I just find it just amazing that if we all just sat back for just a minute and just thought about what all of us got out of this, like what Sharon just said, is that it no is the giving. It was the give and the get. You know, you you’re doing the class, but you got as much out of it as they did. It helped and validates. Is a wrong word, but it’s only word that comes to my mind right now. But I just think it’s the it’s when you see that you can help to change somebody’s else, and that’s when the discovery that they make actually is truly profound and probably worth more than any amount of money that you got paid for the class. No, I’m not saying for a second you shouldn’t get patrio with your I’m with your son. You do that and you get paid because you can have both. I come from a world of abundance. But what do you what’s your guys take on when it comes to abundance, versus people that come from scarcity, or whatever you what’s your, what’s your takes on that? Because I’m hearing everybody, all of you are give, give, give, but it’s some at the end of the game, you got to still make money. Well, very

Candy Shaw 9:01
simple in that, in that regard, because we all built our careers on, on doing it for nothing. You know, my dad said you want to learn. Get in the model prep room. Volunteer your time. Get back there. Don’t demand anything, you know. And I think that’s, that’s really the foundation. When we talk about foundational hairdressing. I think what’s really important to note is that all of us have built our foundations on giving from the very beginning. And I know Sharon will give away, her her wisdom, to people I know Sonya will do it. I even argue with her over it, you know, because I’ve got that business line and I’m over here, trying to run her, you know, and her little roadie, you know, and help her, you know, with that. But I think most, most of us would would agree that we have an abundant life, but our life is full of it’s, you know, money makes you more of what you already are. Are, and so it makes you more of what you already are. And that’s successful. It’s it’s not the amount of money, it’s not the followers, it’s not all of that. It’s that, you know, we were good people, and we care about people and those relationships. And you’re absolutely right. Sharon, I remember exactly where I was when I went back to the classroom after lockdown and how exhilarating it was. And to your point, I didn’t even realize what it gave me. I always focused on what I was giving them. Yeah, always focused on, can I be better than last time? Can I do something better? Can I, you know, that was always my focus. And then I realized, wow, candy, you know, the teacher really does learn more than the student,

Sonya Dove 10:50
yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sharon Blain 10:55
Sorry. Sonya, go on,

Sonya Dove 10:57
go on. Sharon, so

Sharon Blain 10:58
I was gonna say, and that’s the one thing when it gets to that pointy end of the ship, and it’s that word called retirement, how does one live? How does one live not getting their cup full of these wonderful, appreciative students? How does one cope with that? Because, you know, you basically close the door and say, Oh, we’re done now. And then it’s like all the students have gone and, and you’re now left holding, you know, a glass of wine and a, you know, totally old man and, and it’s like you have memories. All you have is memories of those days. And it’s, you know when I’m constantly asked and when are you going to retire? When you’re going to stop doing this? My children the other week could not believe how many bags I was leaving the postcode with. They said, Who’s going to carry them? And I said, Well, I’m going to carry them. They said, You can’t do this any longer. And I’m thinking, but you can’t you don’t understand what this industry does for me. Yes, I’m giving, but by God, I’m getting. I’m getting, and I don’t know how one ever closes a door on that, because it’s so powerful. That whole thing, you know, the way we synchronize with the students and the education?

Candy Shaw 12:20
Well, I mean, Sharon, you’ve had more comeback tours than Cher so, oh, I

Sharon Blain 12:25
know, I’m honestly,

Candy Shaw 12:32
yeah, she’s still out there doing it, and I get it deal. That was my father too. You know, it’s if you think about like a really amazing coach of a team, or somebody who you know coached a sport forever, if you think of like a bear, Bryant who I know, you don’t know who that is, Sharon, but you know they they go their whole life giving back to the team and teaching the team to run the play, and all the things that you get out of that. And how do you replace that? How do you replace that, that love and that passion, and I, I, I feel the way that you feel like, when is enough enough? I mean, I still work at the chair people like, oh yeah. They’re like, what fair? I’m like, You better believe I do, because that is literally my lifeline to my student. You know, it helps me practice my skill, but it also helps me relate to what I’m teaching, you know, and how to make fundamental decisions through consultation, and how you’re doing that. And so I don’t know, you know, when is enough but I guarantee you this, I don’t want to feel like an old rock and roller, and I’ve got that in the back of my mind for my daddy, but oh my gosh, will not be that person that y’all are over there talking about me in the bar, going, Oh for the love of Christ. When is she leaving?

Sharon Blain 14:01
That’s really true, that in me today, candy, yeah, because the way, when you’ve done a big trip like I’ve just done, and I’ve been home, yeah, today was the very first day I woke up at a reasonable time, because the jet lag is absolutely real. You know, the two o’clock, the three o’clock, the four o’clock, the five o’clock. And today, I got to seven o’clock this morning, I thought, Oh, wow, I’m back in the zone that. And on top of, you know, the bag, unpacking the repacking, the new plans, the new things, you know, it’s overwhelming sometimes. And when you are a bit of a one man band like Sonya and I, you know, I have a very small team that support me and and I’m the brains. I’m like the ones making the idea, and they just put it all into action. So it’s it’s now, am I this morning, I was energized because of a new plan, and that’s why I got a little bit late coming on today. But you know, so when I. Had a new idea. I’m like, I’m on fire again, and I feel like I’m now just taking off. But when you come back from it, you know when I put that last massive bag on top of my bags in the airport after the carousel, and this woman looked at me, she said, Oh my god. How do you do that? And I said, I’m thinking it might be the last time I do do it, but something’s gonna trigger and you just forget about it.

Chris Baran 15:28
Yeah, the thing that came to my brain when you were saying that was, there’s that old expression that says, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear, but sometimes the other way around. You know, it’s the when the student learns that’s when you get your I’m gonna say, jollies, your, your, your, your validation, your, yeah, you know you see that light bulb and what they have, and you just know you affected that person for life. Or when they come up to you 10 years later and say, you know, you changed my life by teaching that ponytail, by showing me how to do that French Bob, by doing that color technique. And you go, Oh, my God, I didn’t even, you know, I don’t even remember you, but thank you. But you know, the fact that you changed somebody’s life, that’s what I think. That’s that eternal flame that keeps us going, you know? Oh,

Sharon Blain 16:19
you know, there’s little Instagram messages, private messages, because I get to be the person to answer them. Just today, a lovely girl who’s been in my class quite a few times said, I just had to say to you, I was in London Fashion Week, and I looked at my work, and I looked back and I looked at the every angle. I looked at the face shape, and I thought, Thank you, Sharon, for teaching me and really encouraging me to look at the finer points of hairdressing, and she’s a beautiful message. And I thought, you know, so glad that she’d taken my my information on board and actually put it into practice, because it’s obviously made a huge difference with what she’s creating. So you know, when you get those little words and those little those people coming back, you know, giving you positive endorsement and thanks and praise, you don’t want to stop because, you know, there’s so many more people that you still need to pass that knowledge onto. But it’s, you know, it’s the flesh.

Candy Shaw 17:19
How long was your first standing ovation. When you broke away from Chris dove, you were doing your first Wow. I’ll never forget

stood she while finally,

I don’t want to say arrived, because that’s not really, you know, she worked her whole career on such incredible things. But you know, when she broke away from that, you still talk about that pivotal moment of being that educator on stage, and they just stood up, and they were just like, wow, you know,

Sonya Dove 17:54
as if it was yesterday. It was wild, yeah, and it, it seemed it was interesting, because Chris, you said, abundance. I think abundance comes in many forms. It can come in money. It can come in lifestyle, all of us, you know, we try and work the best. We can work for ourselves. Because you, you just want to, like Sharon, you need to get someone to carry your bags. Okay, that’s for sure. Oh my gosh, goodness, woman that like breaks my heart to hear, you know, loading all those bags. But you do, you do reach out, but you do need help from people. And I it is a tis, a struggle when you’re more a one person thing. I didn’t have a thing company, you know what I mean. But abundance comes from what both of you said. It’s people’s reactions. People like hearing that you changed someone’s life. Like, just think about that the second that we you can change someone’s life. That’s a really, really big deal. That’s such a big deal. You know, when they’re feeling like, Oh, they’re coming out of the industry, they don’t want to be in the industry anymore because they’ve had so many knots, and then you just give them a few words of encouragement, which comes naturally to these two ladies and myself, because all we want to see is people live their best life. It’s that simple, personally and professionally. So the abundance comes from the things you get back like Sharon’s message this morning. Now, I sort of question that a little bit internally, because is that ego, you know, and I have this internal question, and I’m being honest with both of you, it’s is that ego driven? Someone. I’m telling you, oh, you changed your my life, and you did this for me or that for me. But looking at these two, it’s not coming from an egotistical place or myself. So there is that fine line. There really is of it. You know, industry

Candy Shaw 20:18
is full of that. Now that you have, I know it’s really, it’s, it’s hard to navigate. You know, it’s hard to separate the treasure from the trash

Sharon Blain 20:33
candy. You do that well,

Cathy,

Sonya Dove 20:37
I mean, it’s separate

Candy Shaw 20:39
the treasure from the trash when you’re out there and you’re young, and you’re saying this fabulous? Why are they fabulous? Because they have this No, you don’t understand, you know, so I get it.

Sharon Blain 20:52
I’d like you to write a book called Candy’s quotable quotes.

Sonya Dove 20:57
I’ve been saying that to for years, because I have about five or

Chris Baran 21:02
six down here already. So

Sonya Dove 21:06
you do your your one like one liners, one the way you say it just puts it all in a nutshell. Now you have an amazing ability of that.

Sharon Blain 21:20
Yeah, Pinterest and you could be a one man comedy routine.

Chris Baran 21:24
Yeah, could be your next show. Hey, listen,

Candy Shaw 21:29
if I follow him hard times, don’t think I’ve thought about it.

Chris Baran 21:37
Sonya, you said, you just said something that really hit me hard because you were talking about the people that were out there that, and you didn’t use this word, but that’s what the word came to my brain, was that they’re doing these things, and they get burnt out and like the and I think that there’s, there’s that thing that goes on in our industry where, whatever it is, whether you’re doing the same thing over and over, whether you get caught In a loop, whether you’re worried about home life or whatever, and you’re just worried about, you know, you’re just getting burnt out at what you do, and you’re not doing, you’re no longer doing what you really, truly wanted to get in the industry for, and you’re just it becoming a chore. Yeah, what’s the, what’s the advice that you would give to people when, if that, if that is, you know, I always call use the word niggling. I don’t know if it’s a right word or a Canadian word, but it’s in the back of your brain, and you’re feeling them burnt out on that I don’t like what I’m doing anymore. What’s your advice to them?

Sonya Dove 22:37
Well, burnt out is a reality that’s there. It’s almost there’s two things in there. Chris getting burnt out is real. It can happen. And it can really creep on you before you know it, because you’re just going, going, going and giving, giving, giving. Kathy said earlier, you just got to learn the word no. If you learn the word no, that will save you. I love that candy is always saying to me. In fact, she only just said to me four days ago, you’ve got to learn the word no when I saw her in New York. And so she’s been saying that for many years. So I don’t that doesn’t come easy for me some so being burnt out is one thing, but then the other thing you mentioned is doing something mundane that you’re always doing that sounds really boring, really, I’m sorry to say, Chris, so if someone feels like that, they are not doing The thing that they are loving or they’re passionate about you can’t, because if you’re passionate about something and really love what you do, it doesn’t seem like a job, in a way. It doesn’t. It doesn’t. So there are two different areas getting burnt out. You just need to take time for yourself. Self is first. If you don’t take time for yourself, you’re going to get burnt out. Shannon said it being with the family and the kids listening to a son saying, you know, what do you really need to be doing? Another this, another that, and candy as well. With the same having the pressure of being in the footsteps of her father. So there are two scenarios there that you could get burnt out easily, but both of them managed to keep stable and keep still going forward because they’re they love what they do. So if I, if I’m talking to someone and they’re feeling oh, this job’s mundane, or I don’t really like it, and it’s funny, it’s boring. The word boring, I don’t think I’ve ever been bored in my life. I’d love to be bored. I would love to, I really, would really love to wake up one day and say, oh my gosh, I’m bored. What shall I. Do. I don’t think it’s ever going to happen, because I’m not that personality. I don’t think these two ladies are that either. So it’s look at what you’re doing, because if it’s not juicing you and making you function, making you jump out of bed every day to do what you do, then you’re probably not doing the right thing, and you need to have that own self realization with your own self because you can’t hear it from someone else. It’s not never going to work.

Candy Shaw 25:31
I always tell people, because my office, you know, a staff member might walk in and say, Oh, I’m burned out. I just don’t know if I want to do this anymore, and the very first words I say is, you need to go to class. The only way you reignite your fire in this industry is through education, mentorship. That’s what Yes, we plug into it, too. To Sharon’s point, but I think sometimes when people get to a level in their career where they feel like they’ve kind of arrived, I don’t think I’ve ever arrived. I mean, I it’s not, it’s not a it’s not a finish line, you know? And it’s not a sprint, it’s a long marathon. And anytime I feel uninspired, feel burnt out. And, of course, to Sonya’s point, you do get tired. I try to get in the classroom. I try to inspire my brain with something. I try to read something, do something, see something, something, any way I can continue to teach myself is when I know the magic is going to refuel and reignite my you know, my flame and, you know? And yes, the power of no is important, because you do have to have a work life balance. And the biggest hot button right now is self care, right? We all have to work mental health and self care. And I know that we’re a bunch of thoroughbred racehorses that run, run, run, run, run, but we also know how to have fun, fun, fun, fun, you know, and so we’re good at that. You know, we were workaholics, but we’re funaholics too. I know this girl right here. She travels all over the world, you know, to beautiful places to inspire her mind. She’s going to Iceland on Sunday. I live vicariously through it.

Sonya Dove 27:25
Yeah, and good. See the award for Alice. It’s a dream. It’s it’s on the bucket list. I have to see it. I color. It inspires me, but I’ve not really seen it strongly enough. So hopefully it’s gonna happen,

Chris Baran 27:41
and we’re gonna see the work that you create Odyssey in it. That’s what I’m looking forward to. Sure, what does that what does that mean for you?

Sharon Blain 27:52
Well, I’m just listening to these girls, and I feel that, you know, I think it’s keeping your inspiration I get, you know, I had this quote called your use by date, and I spoke to a young group of people on Monday at a little staff conference that I was a guest at. And I think one of the things that people expect to keep them motivated is somebody else to light their fire or to put turn the light on news are very young, young people at the conference, and I said, You can’t expect your boss to turn the light on every day to inspire you. It has to always come from within, and the only way you can keep that light on is your constant drive and determination to be better than what you were yesterday. And I know as a sell on owner, over many, many years, you know, there’s been people that have stayed and stayed far too long. And what these people that have, you know, they use by date was up to keep trying to keep them there and offer them this. But you think you know, at the end of the day, what they’re doing is dragging this their team members down. They come in, you know, like you’ve got to try and bow and Catal to them to try and keep them happy, but they’re not even doing the right thing by their clients. They’re just doing Repeat, repeat, repeat, and nothing’s changing. And then they wonder why their client base is dwindling away because they’re not offering anything fresh and new, and they’re pretty boring to even have around. So, you know, I’m always about this use by date, and I think, you know, it’s something that we need to consider for our motivation and our inspiration from anybody, as you were saying that, you know, are tired or bored, you know. Look internally, look at yourself, you know. And don’t expect other people to light your fire. You know. It has to come from and if you are not able to do that, then you should not be in our industry. You’re not doing anyone any favors. I’m sure there’s a job up the road at the local supermarket. It, or the local cash and carry for Sally’s, or whatever that might be, it’ll give you a job, and you can go into retail because you’re not, you’re not doing any good in our industry by having that sort of attitude.

Candy Shaw 30:18
You know, there’s so many people, I mean, again, I run a 50 chair salon, and this just just permeates with me, like you have no idea. You know, the inmates can’t run the asylum either. You know, you have to be very, very careful with that. And so many times, salon owners get caught in a trap, yeah, of having to feel like they have to please everyone. And it’s, it’s really, it’s really hard, because right now, our industry is, is not, we don’t have a labor shortage. We have a talent shortage, yes, difference, and, you know, and so, so it’s really difficult to make those tough decisions when you’re out there to be strong enough to let somebody go. But you know, what’s worse, you train them and they leave, or you don’t train them and they stay. Yeah, so you got to spend the time on educating those people. Because indeed, it comes back to you. Look, every educator I’ve ever had to teach for my team, I take the class along with them. Mm, hmm. No, you ladies can relate to the time when you go to a small owner and you’re going to teach a class, and you say, Oh, well, what can I do to help you to motivate your staff? And they’ll say, Well, I just need you to I just need you to inspire them, and I just need you to do this, and I just need you to do that, because they won’t do this. And then you ask them, Are you taking the class? And they say, oh, no, no, no, I’m not going to be taking the class. I’m going to give that to Holly or, you know, Sally or Mary. I’m not going to take the class. I said, Well, it starts with leadership, you know. I mean, you can’t inspire people if you’re not doing what you’re asking them to do, you know, simple, and I think in the sweet rental industry, you know. And again, this is nothing against it, but it’s really tough because you go and you get isolated and you’re not feeding off of those things. You know, off that isolation, it’s really, really tough. So I say, when you feel burnt out, go to class, get get in the trenches, like minded people.

Sharon Blain 32:34
And one thing I always add to that is I always liken, I’m a train driver to driving the train. And when the train stops and the driver stops driving, everybody wants to get off. So you’ll be sort of salon owners. Me saying, Oh, I’m losing a lot of staff. I think, Well, you’re the driver. What are you doing to keep them on the train? And it is. It’s all about education. But if you’re not willing, as a salon owner to take the class. Then how can you possibly expect anybody else to do that? Absolutely,

Chris Baran 33:11
this episode is sponsored by the salon associate accelerator from trainersplaybook.com Are you struggling with the time and cost of associate training. Do you feel like your salon is running you? We’ll get your associates on the floor, all with 90% less time from you. So you can get back to building your business. Get the world class design finishing, color and client care skills they’ll use every day for the rest of their career, while you focus on realizing your vision. Go to trainers playbook.com, and get the salon associate accelerator, and now back to the show. Yeah, and that’s, and even if they’re, even if they’re not a hairdresser, you know, I’m always in in I’m more inspired by the owner, if, even if they’re not a hairdresser, that they’re still a part of the team, taking the class, then the other way around. So the, you know, when this kind of sets it up for the when you guys first started, what was the what was the best thing that furthered your career, you know, and I’m not sure what that is, or what I mean by it, was like, was it a kick in the pants that gave somebody gave you? Was it an inspiring moment that happened in your career? Was there a thing that happened that spurred you on? What was that thing that at the beginning of your career, if somebody’s listening right now and they’re going, well, I have three powerful women here, but I could never live up to that. But there had to be a catalyst

Sharon Blain 34:58
for me. My catalyst is being. One of having five brothers, and my dad always thought my brothers were absolute King. So as you as a daughter, I always felt like I was competing with my brothers, and my dad just idolized the boys. So I was always wanting to impress my dad. I always wanted to be proved to my dad that I could have his acknowledgement of me doing something great. So that drove me a lot. But when you’re a country hairdresser and you can’t get education in a small country town, it was always very difficult to achieve. You know, I’d read this the trade magazines. I’d look at all these people winning competitions, and I always believed one day I was going to drive make sure that I was that person in the magazine. And when I was in that first magazine, and I could show it to my dad, I think then and only then did he realize that, wow, you’re doing so well. And you know, it’s a crazy thing, but it’s been a mindset from a very young kid that you always had. I’ve always wanted my to get my dad to show appreciation for what I was doing, but the boys always got the pat on the head, and the girls were just, well, you’re just the girls. So it started very young me, and you know, sadly, the day we buried my dad, I felt a great sense of relief, because I didn’t feel like I had to prove to him anymore that I was but it still drove me to be better. So, you know, sometimes it says, like stuff that happens in your childhood that takes you to drive yourself more. You know, it could be a word from somebody saying, you know, you’re hopeless, you’re not good enough, you shouldn’t be in the industry, I also had that as well. So that was they were finding words for me. They were the drivers for me as well. But, you know, it’s what it’s probably different for everybody. But for me, that’s it goes back a long way. For me, I don’t have that problem anymore, Thank God I’ve shared that a long time ago, but I think there’s a lot of young people out there that may have felt that they were never good enough and they always had to prove their worth, and that’s how they’ve probably gained that ability to be great at what they do.

Chris Baran 37:21
You know, just before we pass it on to one of these fine ladies, you said something there that I always the one that really bothers me. And I’m not gonna say who said that to you, because that would be unfair to that person. But you know, you’ve got, you had two lanes you could have picked when somebody said, Oh yeah, what are you doing? You know, you’re not worthy, whatever that thing that people try to use that as a sword. And I think someone of the lovely days here said that earlier, that, you know, the words you use can be a sword as well. But you know, think about, I think that a challenge, like, what would that and what would that have meant? What would that meant to our industry? If you would have said You’re right today, you would

Sharon Blain 38:06
have helped, I think today, if somebody was this was a past boss that sacked me. So I was sacked many times in my lifetime. So don’t get me wrong, and I mentioned to you many times that I was a bit of a cheeky person, so it was a little bit challenging for any salon owner to employ, but she basically said she didn’t feel that I was capable of being a hairdresser, so it was probably better for her to let me go now than to pursue my career. And you know, the day I got my first Hall of Fame Award, I actually thanked her profusely, because if it wasn’t for her with those words, I would never have got to the level of hairdressing. Those words never left me, and that’s what’s driven me to the person that I am today. So I took that road of, I’m going to prove you wrong, but sadly enough, a lot of people might take that and take it to heart, and basically, you know, throw themselves down and not ever get up. So it depends. It’s the mindset of the person, it’s how you choose to absorb that and what you see. What do you do with that

Unknown Speaker 39:10
sort of word? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 39:11
wow, yeah,

Unknown Speaker 39:15
wow, ladies.

Sonya Dove 39:18
Oh, you go next candy, because mine’s similar to Sharon’s. Well, my,

Candy Shaw 39:24
my, obviously, I relate to Sharon because of the father figure, but also I had a learning disability, and I was dyslexic, and I could barely get through high school. I had to cut hair in the locker room and trade for math homework. I never went to Beauty School, never went to college, because in Georgia, I didn’t have to you could apprentice. And so I had so much more to prove, because I felt stupid and dumb, you know, and I built my entire team on hiring people smarter than me they can do the things that I can. Can’t, because I struggle with those things, and those are those little demons that sit on my shoulder on a nightly, you know, basis, that tell me you don’t you’re not good at math. But I was really happy when the trend was girl math, that’s for sure. But for me, there was just a lot of things that you know when you have a learning disability that you have to prove harder. I had to work harder than my brothers, who were very, very, very smart. One went on to get a PhD. One went on to get a master’s degree in engineering. And those you know, to live in a household when you have these brains, and then you are just the creative one that wants to go to theater and wants to be, you know, do the improv night, and wants to do all these things which, at the time might look like someone who could never make money and would become a starving artist, you know, and and then, of course, having a father who was so decorated that, I mean, you can Imagine, and being a male and then being the female. You know, I remember the moment that my life changed in a way that I had always been known as Jamison Shaw’s daughter. Everywhere I went, Oh, that’s candy, Jamison Shaw’s daughter. Remember the moment, the pivotal moment when it was, oh, my gosh, that’s candy Shaw’s father. And it was glitched, and people were introducing him as my dad, instead of me as his daughter. I worked really hard to, like Sharon said, make him very proud, although he supported me through everything. And if I if hairdressing wasn’t much stick, he would have been fine with that. But I do feel that each of us, you know, each person, has an internal devil that just sort of gets at you and tells you you can’t do this, or you can’t do that. And I would say to you, yes, you can. You know, I said the power of no a moment ago, I wouldn’t be where I was. As a matter of fact, if you haven’t told me no in my career, you’re probably a nobody. You know, all the people that have thrown bricks at me because I’m a woman, because I, you know, couldn’t or shouldn’t, or, you know, in a man’s world, so to speak, you know, I’m standing on that foundation now, and that’s, you know, I’m very, very proud of that. But it never goes away. It never goes you always remember those things, because you never want to fall back into that trap.

Sonya Dove 42:40
Wow. It’s so interesting how we’ve all got a little bit of a similar internal DNA type thing, because mine’s similar, a bit similar to Sharon’s when I was young. I’m the eldest of four, and so my parents put it on me, you’re the example. You’re going to be the one that guides them on what to do and everything. So we all went to school, and I left school with 10 failures. My parents were mortified, whereas my I have a brother, a younger brother, and then two younger sisters. And when I did that, I never forget the words as if they’re right next to me. Now, my parents said to me, you’re going to be nobody, and you’re going to end up working in Woolworths. And Woolworths is, I don’t know if anyone knows Woolworths. It’s a store in England. It’s a funny old store. It’s been there forever, but it wasn’t the best place in the world to work. Put it that way, and so when they said that to me, my own internal fight, because when I told them I wanted to go to be a hairdresser, they were not happy at all. They wanted me to be a nurse. They wanted me to be a personal assistant or secretary. Goodness knows why, but back in the day, that was a cool job to have and and I’m just not that person at all. So all I heard was, you’re going to be no good. So the internal fight for me was, I’m going to prove to them that I’m going to be great, and that’s all I’ve done all my life, is just prove to my parents that I am someone, and ironically, my siblings now we all get we’re very, very close as a family, but they all like, can’t believe how far I’ve got with hairdressing. You know, this hairdressing, doing people’s hair, how far I’ve got, and I just so passionate about it. But it is. It’s the same thing with social media. Someone told me, years and years ago they were telling me about social media, this new thing that on the phone, and I was like. Like, Oh, gosh, what is that? And they were saying, Oh, it’s no good for you, Sonya, it’s more for younger people. Well, game on. Okay, I they were the words I needed to hear. That’s all I Oh, no. Good for you is for younger people. Well, I put up my sleeves, and I’m like, right, but it is that internal. I think we’ve all done that fight. Then,

Sharon Blain 45:33
yeah, you can either you can either rise above it or simply love it,

Sonya Dove 45:37
yeah, yeah, yeah. And it is lovely to hear candy and Shan’s feedback, because I think we’ve all got the same thread to be honest,

Sharon Blain 45:48
whether everybody has one of those little voices in their head that they’ve heard by them or, you know, ignited their flame, you know it’s true.

Chris Baran 46:02
Anyway. Loved what I love what you said about about Woolworths. And it was imported, I think because we’re part of the Commonwealth as well, I think it was imported into Canada as well, with the same kind of status. And there was this, there was a and I don’t know who said it, if I said it first, or somebody else said it, but we would always say, you can’t buy, you can’t buy taste at Woolworths, you know, and because it was that kind of store, you know? And, yeah, but, you know, I think that’s the, that’s the, you know, we always talk about the tangibles that you have in our industry, and you talk about intangibles. Tangibles are sometimes the skills and that. And you could be debated either way, but I’ve always said that there’s there’s two things. You can teach skill and you can be surrounded by taste, but it doesn’t mean you’re going to take on taste or have a good eye. And I think that’s the common element that I see in all three of you is that you have this impeccable taste for the quality of the work that you put out, and you just have a great eye at recognizing it so and I realize this is going to be a really tough answer, but if you could do something to a young person that was just starting out, and you could just say, What could I How could I help them improve their taste and the eye that they Have for beauty? What would you tell them?

Sharon Blain 47:42
Well, I will start off by saying I don’t believe I ever developed a great eye for styling. I always knew the techniques but how to make something look wow. I feel that came from my learning with floristry, and we discussed that last time we spoke Chris, and it was interesting, because on Monday, when I was doing this presentation, they gave me a lovely bunch of flowers, and I looked at it straight away and broke it down for them. And I said, one of the things you have to learn is find a focal point in your work, the part where your eye is immediately attracted because it’s beautiful. And I said to this bunch of flowers, this one rose is so beautiful that I can’t take my eyes off it, and that’s what it is. So you don’t confuse the eye with a lot of other stuff. So if you’ve just got one beautiful way, one beautiful shape, that’s what’s going to get people in. But you don’t ruin it by adding half a dozen braids, you know, pass all these crazy colors and, you know, crazy makeup and and the whole, you know, the kitchen sink, basically. So learning to find a focal point of beauty with your work and the eye is attracted to it. You know, we all know what that looks like. We’re judging a competition. I’ve finished two lots of judging in the last two weeks. Someone says, Oh, my God, it must take you forever. I said, No, it doesn’t. I just look at one. I just look at that picture. And does it catch my eye? Is it beautiful? Is it? Is it, you know, what is the focal point? Is it busy? You know, it’s so easy to do, to actually work out what’s the winning look and what’s not the winning look, in my opinion. So learn to maybe just Google a little bit more about doing flows through and, you know, just look at some of the key elements of the principles of design and other principles of you know this is associated with that think of give you a good lead in to analyzing getting a good eye. Well,

Candy Shaw 49:56
I totally agree with that Sharon and. Is exactly right. But I do also agree that sometimes the most simple of things can be the most beautiful. That’s really ultimately what you’re saying. I mean, when you think about this industry, when we try to simplify our teams by, you know, whether you’re going to wear black, or whether everybody’s going to look, you know, the same or what have you, you know, when I built sunlight’s the brand, it was one color. It was just yellow. It was just one thing, one product, one thing that was simple, you know, and people thought I was crazy about it. So it would say to anyone trying to get taste in their life, or really understanding great hair, or understanding that is, you have so much noise going on, like you said, you don’t need the braids, the makeup, the you know it’s not shooting popcorn over the other side. Need the simplest of things to find the beauty in a woman or someone that you’re that you’re trying to express. I mean, some artists can paint three strokes on a canvas, and it could be worth millions, zillions of dollars, but it’s the city of understanding what not to do. And that’s what I would say to everyone, is just, you know, I think the thing that has made all of us successful is we understand the the difference between what to do and what not to do, and we stay in the lane, and we don’t try to be what we’re not. I can’t be Sharon. I can’t be Sonya, you know? And they can’t be candy, you know? We do. We know what we are good at, and we do that. You know, when my father in our business, when people were putting boutiques in the front and selling clothes and purses and candles and jewelry, my father said to me, you know, he looked over his glasses, he said, I need you to make me a promise. And I said, what is that? He said that you’ll only do what is beautiful, and what is about this industry that you’ll never succumb to the noise of being selling purses, you know? And I think that’s what happens, is people just get so diluted with everything that they think they need, but you really don’t need a lot to be successful. You don’t need a lot, you know, and when you find the beauty and simplicity,

Sonya Dove 52:33
yeah, no, this, wow, both, yeah, both ladies said amazing things, I think, as well, something that I found I struggled with when I first started is to learn like less is more, because whenever, when I started to enter competitions, I had like, 20 ideas of what I wanted to do on the head of hair for the competition, and I would just do it All, and it looked like 20 ideas just thrown on someone’s head. So I think it’s stepping back and focusing on just one idea. Because even now, I challenge myself, sometimes I want to do like, 10 types of different color on one model’s hair. And I think, no, I’m going to do one. I have to just do one. Which one should it be? Because the voices are saying, this idea, no, that idea, no, this one, that one. And so your internal dialog can be your enemy. It really can. And listening, I’ve what I’ve learned over the years is I used to listen a lot to those voices in my head, and now I’m trying to drown that out a bit and listen to my heart, because I know my heart and guts, my first instinct of doing something. I usually try and stick with that, because after that, then this says, Oh no, we could do this. Oh no, we could do that. So it’s all this internal dialog. How do you teach that to someone? Is a whole nother story. That’s the hard part. We know what it is. Yeah. Cheers to that. How do you teach someone? Because when they’ve got all those great ideas, and they want to do everything on a one head of hair per competition. You can see it when you look at the image, yeah, you can tell they did not know which idea to pick on and focus on. It’s so you seeable. You know? You can see it, yeah, so, but is that teachable really? What do you think girl like, Fritz, like, I’m taking it back to you. If you think it an i is something that you can teach someone, or do you think it comes with from within? I’m just curious. Well, it’s

Chris Baran 54:55
great, and I think we all agree pretty much on the same thing. I to me. I. Think taste and and your eye comes from your environment, and it’s what are the people that were around you that helped you? Because you’re going to just take on, you’re going to take on the the taste, the feeling, of people that you surround yourself with. And I think you ladies said that at the very beginning, you were talking about, what’s the people you’re surrounding yourself with? And I think that’s where you to me. In my mind, I got the taste from the industry greats that were out there who I why I never knew the difference between a mentor, a mentor, a coach and and, and just a teacher and but to me, is like the everybody can have a coach and you can have a mentor, but unless that person is actually I used to think, you know, when people would say, who’s your mentor, and I would say it was like Trevor Sorby or Anthony muscolo, they didn’t know me from Adam. They weren’t my mentor. They were mine. They inspired me, but it was the people that were around me that have liked mine, that they they’re the ones that helped develop my taste, that Trevor and Anthony inspired me, but it was the people around me that helped me and I and I mean, another lovely lady that’s out there that you guys all know very well, well known in our industry, and As Chris sorbe and I worked with her for years, and she inspired me. And she would always say, she would say to me, Chris, is that clever? You know, she would say, look, it’s interesting, but is it clever? Like, did somebody look at that and go, Oh, I never thought of that before. And to me, that’s, that’s where that, that was the hook that really helped me, helped me in my career, is, if I’m doing something, I always try to think of, is it clever? Is it something that has ever been, never been done before, or it’s you’ve just did it in a different way? That was really clever. And I don’t know it made it sound like a whole lot of poppycock in there, but it was say that

Candy Shaw 57:03
because all three of y’all have done a lot of competition work, yeah, I haven’t, even though my father was a competition hairdresser. What you focus on in creating these shapes and these beautiful stories, they’re so inspiring, like when I look at a collection that Sharon does, or a collection that Sonja does, or any of those people that you’ve mentioned, they have a common denominator in their in their story, and that is their cleverness, like you say, but also their beauty and what they see in beauty. But someone like me that has no desire to be in a competition hair, market. I guess I’m always looking at, can they make money at it? I mean, I’m looking at something from a salon owner standpoint, from a manufacturing standpoint, from an educator standpoint, is I’m out there helping an industry that is made up of 85% women who are trying to take care of their families, who are trying to earn a better living and have a better life. So I focus more on, you know, what can I teach that student to help them, you know, ignite their soul, yes, but more importantly, to to work smarter, not harder, you know. And how can they make money at it? And, you know, I know that’s kind of a very shallow way to put it, you know, money at it. It’s literally, because there is so much noise. I try to dumb it down. I try to say, hey, hey, hey, hey, let’s relax. We don’t need to be all things to all people. You know, every every tree doesn’t have a million branches, you know, we need to just focus on what we’re good at and and I try to inspire people to find their brand, you know, and find their their messaging, you know, and find that and when they do. You know, it doesn’t matter. You know, they’ll never work another day in their life, and they won’t even look at their paycheck, because, you know, like the saying goes, when the flower blooms, the bees will appear and they’ll be able to be successful,

Chris Baran 59:10
ladies. I just have to say, Oh, I just let that speak for itself. I’ve got so many nuggets that I wrote down here, and I have to say, I this didn’t go the direction I thought it was going to go. And I’m so happy because, you know, I just thought, you know, when we first got into this, and I said, let’s first of all have a glass of wine. Let’s talk about this. But when you get, when you get three intelligent people that have the commonality amongst themselves and really are giving vulnerable, authentic people. There’s so much to learn from. And I I just want to say thank you guys for just being on here and being having the candidness so that you have to really help people understand who you are. And I think that’s going to make a great. Difference to the industry and and the people are really going to listen to this. And I just want to do one last thing, and just to say, you know, whether it’s, you know, 10 o’clock in the morning in Australia time or on the East Coast, or in Mexico or here in Phoenix, we all in different time zones, I just want to say that I’d like to just pose a little toast to three super great people that help to support our industry. And I just I love each and every one of you, and I promise this that one day we’re going to all sit down weathers together individually and have a dinner together, because I love the time that we’ve had together right now. So thank you all so much. And cheers,

Speaker 1 1:00:44
cheers. And I just want to say thank you

Candy Shaw 1:00:49
the blooper reel,

Chris Baran 1:00:51
oh no, listen, that’s going to be top of the list. There is no promises on any of that that’s coming out here. I think that’s going to be the best stuff. And one day when we’re alone in a room with no cameras recording, I’ll tell you some of the bloopers that I’ve had and jokes that I was played. It was played on me when I was on camera. But I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, thank you guys so much, just for giving up your time and your energy and your knowledge and making our industry grow and be better at what they do. Thank you, people. And for those of you listening and watching, all I have to say is this, is this? I know that this was going to be a hottie and and I’d love to get your feedback and your reviews, and you just go on whatever format you’re on and give us a review. It’s always nice if they’re fives, etc, and just leave a comment if you want more of this and want more things like this, just so we can bring more to you. Just please leave comments for us. That’s but ladies, one last time, I just have to say, good luck. God bless and I love, I love all of you.

Candy Shaw 1:01:55
Thank you.

Sonya Dove 1:01:57
Thank you. Thank you

Chris Baran 1:02:02
that cases is produced by cut action media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.