ep 130 Lionel Kearse

Show Notes

Welcome to another episode of Head Cases! This week’s guest is a little different from the norm, and his story is one you’ll never forget. Before I introduce him, let me share a quick story. Back when I used to sail, we had this tradition after races, we’d hand out two awards at the bar: the Aw Shit Award for the one who really messed up, and the Done Good Award for the one who nailed it. And let’s be honest, we’ve all had our “Aw Shit” moments in life, as well as those “Done Good” ones.

When I first heard about Lionel Kearse, I knew I had to bring him on. His life transformation is one of the most dramatic “Aw Shit to Done Good” journeys I’ve ever heard. I won’t give away the details – you’ll hear it best from him, but let me say this: if there was ever someone who embodied the idea that life has no remote -you’ve got to get up and change it yourself, it’s Lionel. So let’s get into this week’s Head Case with my good friend, Lionel Kearse.

4:43 Lionel’s entry into Barbering

8:44 Incarceration and Barbering in Prison

32:30 Lionel’s Success and venture into Entrepreneurship

34:53 Lionel’s Impact on Community

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. Hi,

Chris Baran 0:26
well, welcome to another episode of head cases. And this week’s guest story is quite an anomaly from the usual podcast that they have. And just before I get into giving you a little bit about what it’s about. I want to tell you a little story about when I used to sail, and it was just, you know, a good boys club, and we would meet in the bar after and we always gave out what we called an Aw shit Award and an A done good award. And the Aw shit was for somebody who really messed up, and the done good was obviously for the person that that that won the race, or the one that really did the best job in the race. And I mean, all of us have in our lives to get that parallel. Have had an off shit award in our life, and we’ve had a done good award. And when I heard a friend of mine tell me the story about Lionel Kearse and talk about what he did with his life. I had to have him on as a guest, because I so admire his transformation and his Aw shit, or what he was before and his done good what he is now. Those stories are about as dramatically opposite as I think I’ve ever heard. And I don’t really want to give any of it away. I want it to come from him. But when it comes to changing your life, I saw a quote recently that that read, life has no remote. Get up and change it yourself and my friends, this person exemplifies self betterment. So let’s get into this week’s head case my good friend, Lionel Kearse, well, again, guys, I know that was a kind of an odd intro that that we we talked to and usually you get every know everything about this gentleman. But I really wanted it to be surprised. But so I want to do, first off is, I just want to kind of give you the backstory of how I met this amazing man. I was doing a class in Brooklyn, New York, at Salon, 718718, and the owner, Michaela, related to me the story we’re having dinner, and she read to this story about this barber who had this amazing life, turnaround story and and as I talked about in the very at the very opening, I talked about the, oh, she had award, and so on and the and the done good award. I think this person just absolutely exemplifies that. So I first of all, just want to say, Lionel, it is a pleasure and honor to have you on here. And I know we’ve chatted a couple times, but I just want to say, Welcome to head

Lionel Kearse 3:12
cases. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you for having me.

Chris Baran 3:16
Well, you know, I think it’s just a it’s such a great story, and, you know, and I think that it’s, it’s even, even more impactful for our listeners and viewers, simply because you’re a barber and you live the same life of hair that we do. So if you could just give us your little bit of your hair story. How did you get into hair, and how did you get into hair, etc.

Lionel Kearse 3:37
Okay, first of all, when I was young and I would go to the barber shop. I used to love the camaraderie between the barbers and the customers that were coming to shop, because, you know, the barbers was the staples of the community. And then you got so much going inside the barber shop. You got people coming in selling stolen items. That was just the place to be, you know, so always admired about the changes at hands of the money, and not having to wait for a paycheck, and, you know, and being able to take control of someone’s look, it really intrigued me.

Chris Baran 4:10
Yeah, and so, and you kind of grew, and I might get it wrong, I know, I think you told me one other time, but it’s Farragut. Farragut. Farragut project is in Brooklyn, yes, yeah. And so, you know, it’s funny, like, you know, so many people that that are out there, if you’re not from the projects, it’s a harder place to imagine and and so I want to take you back from there. So you got that you were in the barber shops. You’re watching all the transactions that are going on. So that was how you saw it. Now, how did you transition get into you actually? How did you actually get into barbering?

Lionel Kearse 4:45
Well, like I said, as a kid, I was always intrigued of the barbershop environment, and at the age of 15, I got into the drug trade, and one of my dreams was, I know I can’t do. For the rest of my life that I wanted to transition and be a barber, take the money and be able and get a barber shop and be involved. So Throughout my travels, I went to barber school, but I was still dabbling and, you know, selling drugs, and then I got shot five times, not, not at different times. At one time, shot me five times. And before he shot me, I was going to barber school because I was trying to transition myself out of the drug game, and I got shot five times. So that kind of derailed the process of me finishing barber school.

Chris Baran 5:33
Wow. I mean, I’ve heard of many stories of why you had, why you had, and I I have a smile on my face right now, but not from the the severity of what you talked about, but to me life, I always try to find the humor in things. I’m trying to think of the have you gone you obviously couldn’t do it, but now the people that wanted to leave barbering school or hairdressing school or whatever, and they and they sometimes have a lame excuse. I think that being shot five times, I think, is a pretty, pretty, a pretty good excuse for bowing out barbering at that time. So that, how old were you when you got into when you went to to because you started at 15, how old were you when you got shot and you had to exit the barbering school.

Lionel Kearse 6:21
Well, when I got shot, I believe I was maybe 27 Yeah, 28 and, you know, I got shot. So I, you know, unfortunately, I couldn’t, you know, finish the school and, but I never forgot about wanting to be a barber, yeah.

Chris Baran 6:38
So then, so when you and I were chatting. You said that there was that that time, I’m guessing. And so after that you, when you got you recuperated, obviously. I mean, obviously you don’t get shot five times and not have it not be serious. So it must have been pretty darn serious.

Lionel Kearse 6:54
Yeah, well, I was blessed. I mean, I got shot point blank range, so the bullets went in and out. They didn’t. They didn’t cause that much damage. I lost like 1/3 of my lung. I lost they shot me in my private parts. I lost one of my strotums, and the bullet went they shot me from the back while I was on the ground, so the bullet grazed the outside wall muscle my heart. So I was blessed that I didn’t turn the wrong way, because it would have shot my heart out.

Chris Baran 7:22
Wow. I mean, this is not stuff that you I mean, this is the stuff you see on movies, you know, and yet you’re living that. And so, I mean, I’m interested in a couple things here, and I hope you don’t mind me. If you just tell me to shut up, you can tell me Shut up. But I I’m always thinking about that, did the guy that shot you? Did you ever see him again? Did it ever did what I mean, I can only imagine how your reaction was and how you feel about that person that shot you, is it? Did you ever see him again? Was he ever around again?

Lionel Kearse 7:57
No, well, I never saw him again. But the ironic thing is that once I got shot and got released from the hospital, I went back to the same area where I got shot at because my mind was so crazy with selling drugs that it was about the money, you know, I was chasing the devil’s money, so I put my life online again, wow, for the sake of $1 Wow. You know that was just, it was just like, oh, well, you know this, this is, this is what it is, yeah, you know. But I ain’t gonna let that stop me from getting my money, right, you know. And let me say this before we continue on. I might have sold drugs, but I always had a conscience, and I never killed nobody, right? Because I always said to myself that I’m no better than a person that I’m selling drug to, right? I’m just addicted to the lifestyle as them. So I think through the blessings of God, that’s why I got spared, and I was able to recuperate and move forward, because to be down the side, I always had a conscience, and I knew what I was doing was wrong. But when you get caught up with that Fast Money is no you think there’s no way out?

Chris Baran 9:04
Yeah, yeah, yeah, the you know, I’m just, I’m just, I’m infatuated by what’s going on and the fact of your mind. Because to me, it’s all about mindset and how you know your mindset was stuck in the game, stuck in with with the money. Because I think it sounds to me, it was more about the money than the drugs. That was what you had to do, support yourself, your family and so on, right? But when you and I chatted before you said that it was also that, and I loved how you put it, because you said that it was about the hustle. Tell us about, you know, the hustle and how the hustle changed for you.

Lionel Kearse 9:38
Well, to me, hustling always been a high. You know, the euphoric feeling you get from changing hands with money, cuz every different sale is at a different amount of money. So you don’t know if you don’t get a $20 sale, you don’t know if you don’t get $100 sale. So you chasing. You’re not smoking the Coke, but you’re chasing. The high of the transactions, yeah, yeah. And you get caught up in that.

Chris Baran 10:05
So I think see to me, and then so the did the transition happen? Was the transition in the mindset still there while that was going on? Or did it happen the day that you because I loved and I think the way that you put it, you said, I love you. Said you caught a federal case, and you were 36 years old, right? So that was so then obviously you got caught, right, right? And tell us about that. And that is that, where that, where the hair that were, the barbering started once you were in there. Tell us about that.

Lionel Kearse 10:37
Okay, I got, I got, I got caught by the feds, right? And the first day when they when they put me in a car, and they extradited me to the state of Virginia, the first thing I said in a car, first, I was glad I got caught, because there’s no real life on the run. Every time you hear a siren, every time you see a police car, your heart jumps into your pocket. So if your freedom is is always at stake at that point where you can just get snatched so when I got locked up and I was in a police car, I never forget I put my head back in the seat. And people might think it’s crazy, but that was kind of like one of the best days of my life, because I knew that from that point I had to change my mindset, and I knew I was going to do time, and I knew I didn’t want to be in jail for the rest of my life. So that day started my transition, because I said, Now I have to rebuild myself from the bottom, and one better way to me, just talking about me, is to rebuild yourself, is from the bottom of the barrel. Yeah, I was caught. You know, I had no way to get out, so I said, I’m going to use this time. It’s three things. I thought about how I can survive in prison because I talked to other guys that was running and out of prison. It was three things, job wise. In prison, it was a cook. I mean, it was a it was a cook. It was, well, it’s more than three things. It was a cook. You wash the dishes, you worked in a laundry, or you worked in a barber shop. That’s when the light bulb went off. I said, when I come home now, I used to hustle. I’m not going to be no cook, I’m not going to work in no laundry. Because once you hustle and you’re successful at it, but you know you’re doing wrong, your way of lifestyle has increased to the point where you like to find the things in life. Yeah. So I said to myself, Baran, I tried it, but I got shot. Now I got plenty time to figure this bar Baran thing out. They hit the streets running.

Chris Baran 12:51
So is that so in when you were, you were, first of all, I want to find out how, how much time did they give you? What? What did they

Lionel Kearse 12:58
gave me 12 years and I did 10 years. I did like, nine years and 10 months. Always say 10 years

Chris Baran 13:06
from two years from 10 years, exactly. So you had so that whole time in there. What was, did you was it the 10 years of barbering? Or did you have to do something to prove it that you could do that skill? Or no,

Lionel Kearse 13:19
I’m gonna tell you everything. I’m gonna tell you in life, things happen the way they supposed to happen. Yeah, you just have to be on point in your mind to realize that I gotta take advantage of these certain situations that happen your life. I’m in the county, yeah, what happened was the block they put me in was a trustee block, because you get more food and, you know, you clean, clean up, and whatever you do. So another barber that was there, another barber that was there on misdemeanor time he got released. And never forget one of the CEOs, one of the trustee CEOs, who was controlled his jobs, came to union. Says, who know how to cut hair? We need a barber. Me, with my minimal skills and going to barber school for a short period of time, and I knew I wanted to be a barber. I said, Here go. My chance. Bam, me, I want to be a barber. They take me, throw me in a room. Said, you going to cut hair? I didn’t know what I was doing, because I didn’t stay in school that long. I just knew that I had to start learning from scratch, and what better way to learn was from people that’s incarcerated, because nobody’s really going nowhere unless you get released. And it was interesting, because when I started cutting hair, it gave me peace, really. It gave me something to look forward to and I cut some real notable people in the county I cut. I don’t know if you remember John Walker, Lynn, the first guy who fought with the Taliban. Yeah, right. I never cut them, but my the barber and cell was right next to Zachary masawi, the 13th for 14 suspected hijacker. Wow. You know. So I’m telling myself, Hey, I’m in prison, but my grandkids are never going to live believe what I’m going through and what I’m seeing in this prison. So they locked me the room. I’m cutting hair, and I’m just building myself up. I’m just, I’m just building myself up. I just knew that I’m going to be a great barber when I’m released?

Chris Baran 15:21
Yeah, and did. So it’s, it’s interesting, because and again, forgive me, but, I mean, I think that if you haven’t been to prison before, you don’t really, you know what it’s like. You watch movies, but I’m sure that’s movie style stuff. But when was you always hear the things about that everything was so guarded with anything sharp did? Were you allowed scissors? Were you allowed? How did you cut? There? He became

Lionel Kearse 15:44
when i Excuse me, when I actually became a barber, you can give your ID and a police to come check the scissors out to you, God, but now, if anything happened with them, scissors, you’re the one responsible, right? Because you can’t have open raises in prison, even though people take the Gillette razor and break it open, you know, to shape up the line and whatever. But you can fought with an open razor. You’re going to get in trouble. But you have, like, you don’t have the equipment, the access to the equipment that you have on the street, but they have a cage that’s locked. They have, and these they have, you know, clip is and different things like that, screwdrivers to adjust the clippers, but everything is under lock and key,

Chris Baran 16:26
yeah, and accountable for Yeah. That’s wild. And again, I want to jump into that. And what was like learning as you went. But I remember when you and I chatted, you said, I want the you said that that when you the shell shock that you have to go through. And I think that when we talked about it, you said it’s the shell shock that’s there is kind of the same thing going in as going out. So what was, what was that like when you went in there? I mean, we talked about the mindset. You did say that it was like they, you know, it was like, almost to, thank God I did get caught. I am going in. It’s my it’s my turn to turn my life around. But what was it like? I can’t even imagine if somebody, if somebody, would say to me tomorrow, Chris, you’re going to jail. Of what I would think, or what I would what kind of, what it would be like for me? I don’t, I have no idea.

Lionel Kearse 17:25
Well, I’ll tell you this the first night. And I’m sure I’m not the only one that you spend a night in jail after being free from a child of your life. It’s a rude awakening when you wake up in that morning to the noise of the child, the breakfast coming in, because you think you’re dreaming, yeah, when you go to sleep and when reality hits in, when you wake up and that first meal is dry corn flakes, not, not, not Frosted Flakes, dry corn flakes in a boiled egg and warm milk in a cotton that’s when reality hits you. Oh, my God, what have I done to myself? Yeah, and as a grown man going in at 36 I didn’t let nobody see it, but a tear came to my eye, yeah, because I couldn’t believe that I let myself get caught up in this. And this is one of the punishments and the results that I have to live through. Yeah, as a man being incarcerated. Men is meant to be free, not in, not in, not incarcerated. So that first morning, it was tough, but you know, I knew I had to rebuild myself, and I knew what I was doing was wrong, and I wanted it to stop. And it was only two things that was going to happen, either I was going to go to jail or somebody was gonna kill me, you know, I mean, I already had an attempt on my life. I’ve been kidnapped before. I ain’t tell you that I’ve been kidnapped prior to that. So it’s just like the money will have you sidestep anything. Oh, well, it won’t happen again, or the next time, I’ll be smarter. So, you know, when I woke up in prison and I reevaluated my life. I was like, I didn’t love myself, because if I love myself, I wouldn’t have been doing them things to place myself in them bad predicaments. So I had to really, like, just flush myself out of all the negative I like, when I was away, I didn’t read negative books, I didn’t look at the the pornographic stuff. I just stayed with the positive, because I had to break myself down like an infant and repeal myself back to a man.

Chris Baran 19:27
Yeah, because I remember you said that everything that you were you would read about was about how to was positive and how it made your life.

Lionel Kearse 19:36
I don’t care what it was if it was positive reinforcement, that’s what I did. I didn’t have a favorite program. I didn’t have a favorite movie. Now, of course, I watch news, I watch sports, but have other inmates sit there and they have a special saying movie on, and you see everybody running to the movie room, being comfortable. And I said to myself, I sat in the. Back, and I watched people in the front. I said, the same way you come in, if you don’t let your mind grow, is the same way you’re going to go out. Yeah, yeah. And I said to myself, I seen so many individuals who did 15, who did 20 years, and they have maybe a month or two before release, and you just see them walking around the track and field in a days because they don’t know what they’re going to do. Yeah, they’ve been watching TV for 1520, years. They didn’t prepare themselves. They didn’t take no programs. I took roofing. I took computers, any program, even though I didn’t want to be a roofer, I took it to escape my mind, out of the prison I didn’t want to be a computer expert. I took the computers to escape my mind because I knew if I shut my brain down that chances are when I come home, I’m going to have the same behavior.

Chris Baran 20:52
Yeah, I love when we when we chatted a while back we I remember that you saying something to the effect of about the mind and the way your mind, and they said you, and I think you said you, they could lock up, you could lock they could lock up your body,

Lionel Kearse 21:06
but they can’t lock up your mind. There

Chris Baran 21:09
you go. And I think that’s so, I mean, if you got to be there, because you got to be there, right? You can make decisions and choices just in life, you know? And I think that was, that’s so brilliant, just the way that you could, you shifted your mind the way other people didn’t, you know,

Lionel Kearse 21:24
see the barber shop. The barber shop helped me out tremendously, because it gave me something to live for in my worst moments, it gave me something to feel free. I was sitting the barber shop by myself and just sit there and say, This is my barber shop. Yeah, I’m gonna take care of it. I didn’t, and I didn’t know how to cut, but I was sitting at barbershop. I’d rather sit in that barber shop and sit in a housing unit, and I would have slept in that barber shop my whole 10 years if they would allow me to, because I knew I had to fall in love with this craft in order for me to survive the right way when I come home.

Chris Baran 22:05
Yeah, what was it so, when in in jail, when you were cutting in jail, what was there difference between? Like, does you find there’s any difference between the because there’s still about an experience, right? Somebody’s got to trust in you. With the clippers, right there, they’re telling you what they want or what they don’t want, or do anything, whatever. And what is there? Was there any difference when you were in prison cutting versus, like, if you had to say, compare yesterday when you were in the when you’re in level, it’s levels, the name of the song, right? Yeah, there’s the barber shop. And then, and then, then is there? Tell us about the difference in the experience that it was for them having a haircut and for you doing it.

Lionel Kearse 22:49
Oh, it’s a big difference between prison and the free world, because in prison, you could lose your

Chris Baran 22:54
life over a haircut. Oh, you could lose your life. Yeah, they’ll kill you

Lionel Kearse 22:59
if you mess up their haircut, because they got to go on the visit and, you know, and Jack their hair cut up, they’ll kill you, because I’m gonna tell you a story with me, as I’m learning. You know, I’m shaping up, so I’m taking my little baby steps. Oh, I could line up. So your mind say, if you could line up, you could fade. So, yeah, okay, I’m dibbling dabbling now, this one guy come with straight hair like yours, and he says, Hey, New York, can you can you fade? I’m thinking, hey, at this point, I’m shaping up nice people paying me stamps for shape ups. Yeah, I could do that. And I messed his hair up, and I wouldn’t look. I wouldn’t let him look at the mirror. He kept wanting to see the mirror, and they call us for child. I said, Don’t worry, I’m gonna feed you out my locker, because I knew if I let this guy go to the chow hall and people say his haircut, I’m gonna have problems when he come back. Not that problems where, you know, I’m afraid like he’s gonna kill me, but I just know that we’re gonna have problems. Yeah, right, because I didn’t really know to the full extent what he was locked up for, right? You know, everybody don’t tell you what they locked up for. Oh, no, everybody, don’t tell you. No, I don’t tell you. So what happened was, I’m cutting his hair. I know I’m messing up. I’m like, Man, I can’t get this line. I can’t get this line out. So it’s a guy from DC. I don’t remember his name. He came. He said, what’s wrong? I said, Yo, I can’t get this line out. So he took the cone pop up, about took the line out. So the next day, I see the guy’s name was, I want to I think his name was Panama or something like that. He was with a click called sex, money and murder from out the Bronx. He comes to me, he says, New York, I’m feeling bad because I know I messed his head up. He said, Hey, there’s no doubt in my mind that when you leave this prison, that you’re going to be a great Barber. And I’m like, man, what makes you say that? He said, Because I asked you, can you fade? And you told me. Yeah, I can fade with all the confidence in the world, and you mess my hair up. He said, You got to be lucky that I’m not going on a visit, because if I was going on a visit with my hair messed up me and you have big problems. And I come to find out he had life plus 40. Oh, so you can imagine what the big problem would have been, yeah, yeah. And that’s when I knew that if I was willing to take a chance on my life to be a barber, I knew, when I got out of prison that I was sore like an eagle, yeah, yeah, sure that, yeah. Because inside, you know, you they people got time. They got time on top of time, and they’re going to critique their haircut. Not like somebody on the street. If it’s a piece of hair missing, they’re going to tell you about it might come back two hours later. Amen, you missed the spot it because we have nothing but time, right? So that was I said to myself, if I could defeat this and learn in this environment. Oh, I’m gonna be a monster when I get out.

Chris Baran 26:06
Yeah, you know, it’s interesting. You know, when I when I hear people in schools now, whether it’s in cosmetology or barber shops or whatever, and they’re so afraid of making a mistake and and yet, we look at what the consequence would have been if you would have had that must have made that, if you made that mistake in prison when they’re out, you know it, the worst thing that would possibly happen to them is the client might not come back, right? So, yeah, I can, I can only imagine. I think that’s when, you know, that’s it’s like, when people say, I, I get it. I don’t think you get it unless you, unless you were there.

Lionel Kearse 26:46
And, yeah, can I? Can I add to this? My mindset was this, also in prison, I said, Hey, I want to be a great Barber. Somebody got to be the sacrificial lamb. Yeah, yeah. So my conscience was, if I messed you up, hey, I, you know, I’m not a cut that. Well, I’m still learning. And then you had guys who knew that you were still learning and didn’t mind a mess up, yeah, you know. So now, when I hit the streets, I didn’t have that pressure on me, because I know I wouldn’t get stabbed for a haircut. So if I messed up in the beginning, it was like, Oh, well, you know, come see me three years from now. I’ll fix it, you know, I’ll be a better person. So, you know, I’d say just to up and coming stylists and Bob and barbers. You cannot be scared to make a mistake. That’s the only way you’re going to learn. Yeah, and my trick was when I was cutting in a barber shop in prison, I wouldn’t let you look in the mirror. When I seen you looking in the mirror, I turned the shit all the way.

Chris Baran 27:52
You know that now, but there was there. There has the time. Can you remember when it all clicked, like, how far in did it when you know you were, you weren’t having to turn the chair or you, if you’re in for 10 years and cutting for 10 years, and I don’t know how many you cut per day, etc, but what was it like? When did, when did that light bulb finally go off, or that, that confidence ring in your brain that you went, I can do most of anything that I need to do now?

Lionel Kearse 28:19
Well, it wasn’t in prison. Prison was this because you don’t have the before I got into the barbershop, you don’t have the basic tools. You will buy a pair of bed trimmings off of a commissary, and you would shave down the guard a little bit, and you could just do a little touch up like that. But it really clicked for me. Far as I knew, I was on the right track when the inmate started paying me stamps for shapes, that’s when I knew I got I got skills like I just gotta just keep practicing and learning and learning and learning and learning. And I will walk around, oh, I shaped that guy. I will analyze my work, and I will let other guys rid of kill me about, oh, you can’t cut New York. And I will let them teach me. Let’s show me where I messed up at instead of being mad, yeah, I said I’m I’m flip it. Yeah, you show me why I messed up at. So you’re teaching me, but you think you laughing at me, but I’m laughing at you.

Chris Baran 29:17
Oh, wow, that’s amazing. So now I want to talk to you. There’s now when you okay? So we went through that you a year. We got through prison. I want to talk about just what was it like, number one, when you got out. And then I want to go into how, how was getting a job and getting into back into barbering on the street?

Lionel Kearse 29:39
Okay? Like I said when I was in prison, all I did was read positive stuff, magazines, whatever. And I’m just telling you, like everything in my life, it seemed like it’s always a part A, A, Part b1. Thing leads to another. I’m in a housing unit, and I’m reading a magazine, and in the back of the magazine, it has levels of. Advertisement inside, and then one of the barbers is saying where he came from, the amount of money he’s making. And I read the article, and I ran to another inmate, I said, Look, I told you, it’s money involved, because everybody was telling me, man, you’re gonna be a barber. There’s no money involved. I said, I’m telling you it’s money. So that only solidified what I was thinking about having this article. So now I get out of prison, November 1, 2011 so everybody in prison works out. You know, I work out, so I wear glasses. So this day I don’t have my glasses on, and I’m walking to Atlantic mall to buy me some workout gloves, so I don’t have my glasses on. So I get off to stop before I supposed to get off on the bus. What I walked by a levels barbershop. I said, Oh, wow. This is the same barbershop. I knew they had him in Harlem, but I didn’t know they had him in Brooklyn. So I walked past and I see a levels and I was like, wow, this is what I read about when I was in prison. So I go inside, tell the guy, Hey, I’m looking for a barber shop to work in because I was going to work in another barber shop in Bushwick, secondary, Brooklyn, but the guy chair was messed up, and I was so desperate to be a barber, I told him I was willing to buy my chair and bring my chair inside the shop, because the chair he had was broken. So my friend said, No, you don’t want to work in this area. I want you to be downtown. You gotta find somewhere downtown to work, right? So I happen to walk past levels. I went inside. What I did like it was the owner cutting in the first chair. So I’m telling him. I said, Listen, I just came home. I’m a good guy. I just want to be a barber. He never tells me to own and I respect that. So he says, Hey, you wouldn’t you really want to learn how to cut hair? I said, Yeah. He said, goes to to a location in Harlem, which is another levels you’re going to cut the homeless. Let the guy see how you cut, and if you cut decent, we’ll give you a job. So I go that Tuesday, I buy all this equipment. I go to Tuesday. I go that Tuesday to Harlem, 117 for Lexington Avenue, and I’m as I’m cutting a guy, the same guy who gave me the card walks in the shop. So the other bar that’s in the shop says, hey, that’s the owner levels. And I was like, wow. And it blew me away, because most people, when they own something, they gloated, oh, this is mine’s, you know, I got a shop. He just treated it like he was a regular Barber. And to this day, our relationship is 100 because I told him, if you give me a job, I’m going to be an asset. I said, You don’t know me, but I’m a hustler. I’m gonna be an asset to your business, and you’re never gonna forget about me. And he has told me, maybe five, six years until me working at levels he has never, ever seen him. He said he wouldn’t repeat this because he would hurt people’s feelings. Hurt people’s feelings. He has never met a barber like me in his life, and he’s been cutting for 25 years.

Chris Baran 32:48
I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using. I hate working in a small, cramped box, yet I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space with artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities. With artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out. Artist on, go, built for stylists serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50% on your rent. To find out more, go to B, i, t, dot, l y slash artist on go. CB, that’s B, I T, dot L y slash artist on go. CB, yeah, yeah. I guess you have to take stuff away from people that maybe and then you just realize how good you’ve got it out there. So, yeah, so tell me about that you were involved also, and tell me a little bit about Be Your Own Boss campaign.

Lionel Kearse 34:29
Yeah, I cut a few professionals. Ryan cloth from ESPN. I was cutting him for three years. Jim Jackson, nice guy. I was cutting them when he come and do the NBA games and the college games. I was cutting Emmanuel ocho Walter Mosley is the state’s Assemblyman for the state of New York. I was cutting him when he was Assemblyman in our district in Brooklyn. I was cutting his son. And I just built relationships with individuals. You know, people could tell upfront. Whether you’re a fraud or whether you’re real. Yeah, right. So I always just been genuine, because I love Baran so much. With meeting new people, you never know who you gonna meet next. So I just wanted to be a great barber along with a great being a great person. And he said, Hey, I got something for you. We have been a campaign called being your own boss, and I think you’re the perfect candidate to represent what we putting out in New York City. And they came through, and they I told my story. They had me on NBC News. They had me on WPIX. And I say it was the worst ethic that got me recognized through all the people that I’ve cut, because I’ve been at levels going on 14 years. Besides the pandemic and vacation, I’ve missed no more than 30 days in 14 years. Wow. And I start as early as five o’clock, 430 in the morning. And when you come in, 430 morning, I usually have a, 430 a, five A, 530 a, six. Like before the pandemic, I was cutting like 30 people a day,

Chris Baran 36:03
wow, wow. And this is I love that, and I keep reverting back to his. You know, the having a conversation with you was truly meaningful for to get to understanding not only where to go in this podcast, but just to get know you as a person, and I loved how you said that you love to hustle cuts more than you did. I think you put it I want to, I love to hustle cuts more than drugs. So there had to be something really profound that happened to change your mindset to the point we can always talk about when you’re you’re in jail, and that’s what you have to do, like when you get out in the real world as well. You know it’s nobody’s going to be killing you over the over doing, making a mistake in your haircut. But when I see so many people that are so afraid to make a mistake or no trying different things or new things, and yet you’re out there just hustling away, starting at 430 in the morning. I go, good lord, there’s got to be something about ambition that goes along with that.

Lionel Kearse 37:14
Yeah, I mean, because if you don’t put as a barber, and I tell other fellow barbers, if you don’t put the work in, how you going to succeed? So so many people, they don’t know how to stay solid. Don’t come to work early for two weeks. Come to work early for a whole year. Yeah, then you see your results. Nothing is going to happen overnight. See a lot of people, unfortunately, now, as I grew up, you know, they don’t have that that, that stay power. If they don’t make money in two or three days, two or three weeks, they out of there. No, when I first worked at levels, my whole first week, I made just $80 but know what I said to myself, it’s money here because I made $80 in my first week. I just had to build up my clientele. Yeah, and I did whatever it take. I stood outside the shop. I stopped cars the red light. I’m tapping on bus windows. I’m giving car calls to everybody I walk around the neighborhood. I mean, I was relentless. My motto on my car to this day is, if you don’t like my cut, you don’t pay. So who’s not going to try you with a model like that?

Chris Baran 38:21
You know, and I think that when you kind of answered this already, but I’m still going to put it into a question, because this comes up to me as a coach, as a trainer, as somebody who talks to salon owners all the time, and I hear this in and in, particularly on my side of the business, which more on the cosmetology side, when I hear people say, Well, I don’t have a client, and it’s three o’clock in the afternoon or noon or whatever, I just want to go home, you know. And when I hear that you’re out there and you you might leave the salon, but you’re out there, you know, hustling, getting business, stopping people and saying, look at I can do you. I can do your hair. What would you say to that person when you say to them, if they, if you, if somebody in your establishment said, I’m not busy and I’m still gonna supposed to be here for a while, but I want to go home. What do you say to them? You don’t

Lionel Kearse 39:16
want to make no money. You don’t want to make no money, because if you want to make money, you’re not going to sit down and waste your time. Even before I became a barber, a lot of clientele, I felt that if I come outside every day and give forth the effort to build what I’m trying to get to if I gave out 50 cards, that’s just like working. Yeah, you know, if I hit the neighborhood, like, I stop people. You constantly politicking. See, a lot of people just want to just sit there and think that the money gonna hit him in the head. Like, we, honestly, I don’t get along with lazy people. If you’re not motivated and you’re not trying to, you know, jump, stop your own, uh. Business, we really don’t have nothing to talk about because it’s so easy. It’s just that people fear fear rejection. When I first was handing out cards, you think everybody took my card? You know what I said? Don’t worry, you’ll sit in my chair one day long as I’m staying busy, your name spreads and the same people that wouldn’t take my cars. I’ve been my customer for the last 10 years, because all it took this one time to sit you in my chair, to show you what I was working with, and now I got you hook, line and sinker. Yeah, you know they

Chris Baran 40:27
say, they say in sales that people will say no 12 times before they’ll say yes. So nobody’s going to just say yes, and not every person is going to say yes the first time, and the moment that you can get used to the word no and no doesn’t mean I don’t like you. No just means I don’t have enough information. There was a story about this. Is no old book that I read 100 years ago like you. I always read, you know, positive books and things on on transforming your life. And there was a book by Hank tristler. Was the guy’s name, the author, and he was in sales. And he he was the guy that they would call to come in and save companies when their sales weren’t good. And I don’t remember the the kind of company that he went into to help to save, but because their sales people weren’t good and, and, and what he would do to them is he would do two things. Number one is he would say, Okay, today, you got to learn how to sell. But, and so you’ve got to sell today. 12 cemetery plots. And he and the people would say, well, we don’t sell cemetery plots. And he said, Yeah, but you’re going to sell them, and you’re going to get used to people saying no, and it was just the fact that they could, they became so immune to the word no that they would keep selling, even though they couldn’t. They did nothing to sell. They just got over then had learned. Had to learn how to handle those objections that came up.

Lionel Kearse 42:07
Right, right? But see, it all boils down to this too. When you selling yourself, you just have, you have to have a great approach, yeah, yeah. You have to have a confidence. People want to see that you confident. Yeah, you approach me and you’re shaky about your product. You’re gonna make me shaky about even listening to the information. But if you approach me on guarantee me like, Hey, I guarantee you your cut gonna be nice. I’m gonna give you a shot. And I can stand in front of the shop and people don’t tell me, people, strangers don’t tell me no, when I’m out there grinding, you know, which I don’t have really, I don’t grind like I used to, because all my cuts now are word of mouth, but when I was grinding, when I was grinding, it was nothing for me to go outside, snatch four or five customers and cut their hair. That’s that wasn’t a problem. You just have to have a confident approach. A lot of people, they don’t if they, if somebody shuts them down, they’re not going to talk to the next five people. I’m like, Oh, well, you don’t know. You don’t know what you’re working with. I’m gonna go talk to this next person. You just have to person. You just have to have confidence in yourself. I figured like this me, I’m not saying this. This applies to everybody with me. If I was able to sell you a drug that wasn’t good for you, you think I can’t convince you to let me cut your hair? Come on now. It’s a no brainer. Yeah, and I’m not tearing down the neighborhood no more, and feeling bad about myself, I’m uplifting the neighborhood and maybe help helping somebody else feel better about they self, because you give me creative control over your look. And I take that serious,

Chris Baran 43:33
you know, and I have to, I want to bring it back, just to and this, what I hear you saying, is so applicable to the when I met you the first time, because I was doing it that, doing the seminar at 718, and I guess you just happened to be walking by and and as soon as Michaela told me about you, said, I want to have him on my podcast, and you happen to be walking by and she said, Hey, come in. Chris wants to meet you, and we’re right in the middle of the class. I remember introducing you there. But here’s the reason why I’m bringing that up. Some of us, some of us, you in particular, got that lesson on your own. Some of us had to pay business people to talk about how big that the they would call it your aura. How big are you? And like, how do you fill a room when you walk in? And that’s what I want to talk to is just about what you said there when you walked in to salon, 718, and there was whatever 20 of us packed around in there, and you walked in there. And when I say you were big, I don’t mean that just that you’re tall person. I mean you filled the room when you walked in and and just the way you said hello, and the way that you shook hands, I got that feeling about you right away, and it came from a feeling of not overconfidence, but just of that. It self worth. That’s kind of what came to me. And I think that if you have that in your life, it’s that much easier just to be authentic around people, right?

Lionel Kearse 45:09
You got to know how value you you got to know how value, how value you are to yourself and to the things that you doing. Because long as you know your value, you can never be short changed, yeah. See, a lot of people don’t know their value. I know my value. I know what I bring to the table, you know, and I don’t walk around with an air supremacy about it. It’s just that I know my value. I’m gonna treat you real. I want you to treat me real. Listen, we could be great or we could be nothing, yeah,

Chris Baran 45:39
that’s it, yeah, and I want to, I want to kind of just do a little shift in here, because I remember when we when Michaela and I were having dinner, and we were talking about you, and then the way it actually started out was she was talking about when she was doing an event for her people, and she had to take them someplace, and and she said that I, I rented. She said she, I rented these vans. And you told me they were called sprinters, but they, she’s they were rent. He rented to take to all of her staff, because she has, like, what, just shy of 100 staff, and she wanted to take them to this place. And then, so she rented these sprinters, these vans from you. So I want to talk to you about not only that you because you know what to me always hustling is, is sometimes could be a negative word and sometimes a positive word. What I love how you spin that to positive is you not only do what you do as a barber, but I want you to tell the story about how you got started in your private transportation business.

Lionel Kearse 46:46
Okay, I had, since I’ve been home from prison, I don’t, had Cadillac paid that off, three Benzes paid that off, two Porsches paid that off. So on the last Porsche. I was like, You know what? This car is depreciating. I had a Porsche pan around, but nice, you know, 6000 miles on it. I said, this car is depreciating. And that always stuck in my mind. So I have grandkids. I’m about to be 59, years old Sunday. So I have grandkids, one of my daughters, a doctor. Well, my my kids are doing wonderful. And I wanted to take my grandkids on a road trip, and I wanted to use a sprinter. Yeah, right. So a friend of mine was in the Sprinter business, so I said, hey, send me some pictures of your sprinter, because I want to use it on a road trip or take my kids on a week road trip. So when he sends me a picture to spread her, the outside is nice, but when I look at the inside, I’m like, Nah, I ain’t put my grandkids in there because I wanted my grandkids to have a good experience, you know, like, you know, just, just this, you know, I love my grandkids, so I want them to have the good life. You know, I’m, you know, I’m doing right? You know grandpa? You know grandpa loved his kids. So what happened was I said, You know what I added up for the week, how much it was going to cost me, because we was going to hit like three major parks, gas, fast passes, food, buy them, stuff, the rental of the sprinter. So it came to, like, $10,000 for a week. So I said, light bulb went off. I was like, You know what? My Porsche is paid off. I could take this Porsche, buy me a sprinter, and have it for every summer. I could take my kids on a road trip. I don’t have to spend $10,000 and I could take it and make me some money too. So what I did was I started researching the insides of sprinters. So a year passed and it was on my mind. A year passed so I’m sitting in front of levels barbershop. So one of my clients, he is into sports management. So I said, Hey, man, what you think about this idea? I would think about buying a sprinter because me, my kids, was going to Paris for a vacation. So I said, what you think about this idea? He said, Tell me about I said, Man, I think I want to get a sprinter and start doing some transportation, because my clientele, I could run the idea to my clientele, and I think it’d be a hit. And he said to me, exact words was say, word, you’re going to get a sprinter. I said, word, I’m gonna get a sprinter. He gets right on the phone. He calls Nike. His connect from Mike. He said, hey, if I get a sprinter, would you give me work? And whoever he talked to said, yes. So I said, Okay, people say things and that don’t mean they’re going to follow through. So I was supposed to buy the Sprinter when I came back from Paris, but I bought the Sprinter before I went to Paris. So maybe a week later, he walked by again. I said, Yo, I got the sprinter and the relationship my second job. My first job was a lady. She was a doctor. She took her son to the Poconos. So I said, okay, cool. I got a job. My second job was night. So they wanted two sprinters going to a high school for an event. So the light bulb went off. I said, Wow, this thing might be hitting on something, and it just took off from there. And then when I drove for night for that summer, that first summer, one of the high school coaches that I drove for for the tournament, he happened to win the championship for three years in a row for the girls at South Shore High School. And he made him gelled. He said, Man, I like you. Man, you know, you’re on time, you’re nice. I had waters for them, you know, in the spring I had the refrigerator. He says, Are you a department education vendor? I said, I don’t know what that is. He said, Come see me when school start. I bring my business information to him. They made me a vendor for cutting for Baran in nine days. And when he made me a vendor, he said, we’re going to use you, but I’m going to turn you on to a school that’s really going to use you. And he turned me on to Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson won the championship last year, so it’s just, I meet the coaching Thomas Jefferson. We go out of town to Philly, wherever we go. He points me, go talk to that coach over there. They need transportation. I talked to that coach. He used me, hey, go talk to that coach over there. And then one of my clients was an assistant to the Chancellor of the department education. He made me a vendor for barbering. So now I got a contract at Brooklyn Collegiate High School to mentor and cut the student, because a lot of gang activity there. Yeah, they made me a vendor for for cutting hair. So I go into school on Mondays and I mentor the kids and I cut there at the same time.

Speaker 1 51:38
That’s awesome. It just grew out of control.

Chris Baran 51:42
Yeah, well, it kind of it’s such a great segue for me right now, because number one is that how you used the money that you got from barbering to bring out another business and make more money for you and your family. That’s number one thing that came up. Well, what I loved is how that I always believe that university, the universe gives you what you need when you need it, and and how you had those, and I and you got now you’ve got a fleet of them, and you it took you to kids that were like you. So it’s almost like full circle that your kid kids that could be in trouble, and you’re mentoring those kids now. So I want, that’s what I really want people to hear right now. Is that how you went from that 15 year old and you transitioned, and you got into drugs, then you got into and, like to say, by the grace of God, got caught. That was the part that helped to transition you and move you forward positively, and then it helped to transform your life. And then you got out you you’re now at the point where you’re actually transitioning the kids that were like you wouldn’t it have been great if there would have been somebody at that 15 year old that that you were at that time, that would have had that spark at that time. Because if you had that hustle and that grind that you have now, and you would have had that somebody could have helped to transform you, like you’re helping those kids now, right? And change that kid, so they’re not hustling grind on drugs, but they’re actually doing it. Think about where, where you are now, and where you would have been if that, if that mentor would have been there for you, but you’re that person now,

Lionel Kearse 53:24
yep, I ran through a lot of money, wow, yeah, a lot of money.

Chris Baran 53:31
I just got to say, because I know that when we talked, you said, you have what, 10 kids.

Lionel Kearse 53:36
10 kids. I got six girls and four boys, or boys or men, all my kids are grown, yeah,

Chris Baran 53:41
what was it like now? Now that I’m not sure, and I normally don’t even need to go into it, when, when, when you were in jail, what was it like? What did those kids think of you?

Lionel Kearse 53:54
Now, what they think of me? Now, I believe that they I showed them, regardless what they believe that time I was locked up, I showed them that no matter what you go through, you can come at it if you want to come out of it, because I believe they might got more respect for me now that they seen that I came home and turned my life around. And it’s not like I got one foot in and one foot out. They seen my total. You gotta, you gotta remember, so many people thought that I would go back to jail. Yeah, when I went to college, I would go back to my homecoming. They would make bets that I would be back in jail within a year. Yeah, because they knew I was a hustler, yeah, and they thought that I couldn’t do nothing else. See, my whole thing was this, I wasn’t a drug dealer. I was a hustler, a drug dealer only could sell drugs. A hustler, no matter what he touched, he’s going to prosper. So I always consider myself a hustler. I never consider myself a drug dealer.

Chris Baran 54:58
Yeah, and I. And this has been so amazing talking to you on here. What there was a I want to kind of ended up on this in here, because when we were talking, and you were talking about the freedom that you had before, and then what it’s like, like taking it away, and I just want to relive that moment. And I don’t know if you remember what you said to me, but that was so profound. I don’t know if you remember that what you said about Yeah, about you.

Lionel Kearse 55:30
You never put your life in in front of freedom.

Chris Baran 55:34
Wow, yeah. And you probably didn’t know that. You probably learned that the moment that you got

Lionel Kearse 55:40
caught, yeah, because you could be in jail and be a $10 million Man, but you spending the same 290 as somebody that’s broke? Yeah? Yeah, money don’t matter when you’re in jail, because you’re everybody’s the same. Yeah, I

Chris Baran 55:53
just have to say this, my friend, I am so happy. I’ve always was happy anytime that I’m working. I love what I do. I love teaching. I love training with people. But you know, the real, true impact, I think, is when you that, if you really listen to somebody, the fact that we had that conversation with Michaela, and she got me to meet you, and so I really wanted people to see that, you know, life’s not rosy for everybody, right? You know, and sometimes the freedom gets taken away, and yet you could get real pissy and upset and then blame the world and so on. But you didn’t. You said, look, here’s my chance, and here’s how you turned your life around. And Lionel, I just want to say, as it’s a pleasure knowing you. I think most people would you know if they I’m hoping that out of this, that people will say, look at every person that goes to jail is not a bad person. You know, there’s so many good people that can still come out and have a good life after that, regardless of what they did when they choose to turn their life around. So I just want to say, thank you for being on here. Is there any any last words that like? What? Anything you’d say to those kids and that youth that you’d be out there, somebody that’s out there that might want to be thinking about the life that they could have and making life easier with drugs, etc? What? What would you say to them?

Lionel Kearse 57:17
I’ll, I’ll say this. You want to be a boss right the right way. Pick up a pair of clippers and learn how to cut some hair. You’ll be your boss. You don’t have to worry about running from the police or warrants or going to jail. Baran has opened up my life. I have met people that I know I would never have met if I wasn’t Baran. Michaela Brian, you countless individuals that’s helped me along the way. So if you want to change, you could change. You just have to love yourself, give yourself a chance and put your best foot forward. Don’t let nobody tell you you can’t do it.

Chris Baran 57:53
Yeah, Lionel, if anybody wants, I mean, people are out there and they want to get in touch with you, or they want to know more about you, or you know even speaking help speaking to people, just to know what this is like. Like you do with those kids. How can they, if they want to get a hold of you? How would they get a hold of you?

Lionel Kearse 58:11
Well, they can get my number. You might put my number out there. They can give me a call. My number is 347-435-6534, my email is P, H, A, T, C, U, T, S, spell fat cuts with a, p, yeah. 1980 five@gmail.com I’ll answer any question. You have any questions you want, you need any advice on the Baran game? That’s what I’m here for. Somebody had to help me to get to where I’m at, so I’m willing to help somebody else. And trust me, I know it’s great jobs out here, but I feel there’s no greater job than being a barber or a beautician or dealing with hair, you know, your own boss

Chris Baran 58:52
and and give, let’s give levels a shout out. Which levels are you at and

Lionel Kearse 58:56
levels in Brooklyn, but I’m gonna shout all levels out, but levels in Brooklyn is where I

Chris Baran 59:01
work at Yeah, yeah. Because they give you, they give you the chance. So yeah, God bless God bless you. And, and to all, and to that. I forgot the gentleman’s name. That was the owner that

Lionel Kearse 59:11
levels, yeah, come on, new rule, yeah, yeah. That’s my guy. That’s my God. We have a, we have an impeccable Baran, we man, we should have been brothers. We’d have 100 more shops.

Chris Baran 59:24
There you go. Well, Lionel, I just want to say thank you so much for sharing. And you know, like you said when I talked to you originally, you said, because it’s kind of weird talking to people about about jail time and so on, because you don’t know if it’s taboo and what to talk about. And you just said, I have no fear of the truth, so I just thank you so much, and it was a pleasure having you on change.

Lionel Kearse 59:47
You could change if you want to change, and you don’t have to go to jail to change. You could change your mindset as a free person too.

Chris Baran 59:54
Now it’s you don’t

Lionel Kearse 59:57
want to go my route. So many people might not. Survive,

Chris Baran 1:00:00
yeah, and it’s all about the right decisions, right? Yeah. Lionel, thank you so much. You’re welcome.

Lionel Kearse 1:00:07
Thanks for having me. Chris,

Chris Baran 1:00:08
absolutely pleasure. Okay,

Chris Baran 1:00:16
thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow head case. Head cases is produced by cut action media with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.