ep137 – Stephen Gomez

Show Notes

Welcome to another episode of Headcases! Today’s guest used a word that really stuck with me: flourish. Not just to survive… not even just to succeed… but to truly flourish–both financially and artistically.

With over 30 years coaching to the spa and salon industry, he brings deep expertise in marketing, communication, and business operations. He has delivered more than 900 trainings to over 40,000 professionals worldwide, and is widely recognized as an expert in beauty systems and the wellness industry. With a NAHA nomination as Educator of the Year, he has created content for Milady, L’ANZA, DMK International, and the Professional Beauty Association, and he has authored books on financial fitness, interdependent leadership, and the service cycle.

If you’re a salon owner, thinking about becoming one, or you’re a stylist looking to strengthen your financial future, this conversation is for you. We talk about helping salons increase sales, streamline operations, boost profits, and build strong leadership from within.

So let’s get into this week’s Headcase, my new good friend, Mr. Steven Gomez.

3:23 Stephen Gomez background

8:16 Coaching Journey

12:15 Addressing Comparison and Team Dynamics

36:20 Building a strong Financial Foundation

42:18 Importance of Core Values

54:00 Rapid Fire Questions

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes we love and admire and to ask them, How did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hair stylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success. Hi,
well, welcome to another episode of head cases, and my guest in the interview used an amazing word today, and he said the word flourish. How to flourish financially as well as artistically. Now listen up, because he has 30 plus years as a spa and salon business coach. His background is in marketing, communication and business operations. He’s delivered over 900 Salon and Spa trainings to over 40,000 people from all across the globe. He’s recognized as one of the top experts on beauty systems and in the beauty and wellness industry. And Naha proved that when he was nominated as Educator of the Year. Subject Matter Expert is what he is. And he has created content for Milady Lanza, DMK International and PBA, the Professional Beauty Association. And his books are written on the on financial fitness and interdependent leadership, as well as this service cycle. And if you’re a salon owner, you’re thinking about owning or a stylist who has just wants financial advice, you’ll love this. He helps to increase salons sales, streamline operations, expand profits and develop leadership skills. So let’s get into this week’s head case, my new good friend, Mr. Steven Gomez,

Chris Baran 2:09
Steven, you know I, if we meet anymore, I’m going to have to send you flowers. I just have to congratulate you. Well, first of all, welcome. It is a pleasure to have you on head cases. So welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here. Well, thanks for being had, by the way.

Chris Baran 2:27
Listen, we were on just the other day, you know, and you and I have to say congratulations, because not only are you an amazing coach, but you give back. And that’s what I think impresses me so much about you, is you took and I have to tell for people listening and watching, is that not only did he do a charity event for somebody for a salon that had a tragic mishap, I’ll just say in the in the salon, however, but you gave up your whole daytime, literally from nine o’clock till after five o’clock in the evening, you stayed on, and you had some of the industry leaders come on there and just donate time so that we you could raise money for this salon. So if you want to get again, just give a plug. Because I think the more we can help and the more money that we can raise for that salon. But tell us just, just give us a top line, what it is if people want to donate something, and so they can sure.

Stephen Gomez 3:19
I mean, we closed the Eventbrite portal, but if anybody needs to get a hold of me that wants to make a direct donation to the salon, then at the end, they could grab my instagram handle and my email address, but basically one of my coaching clients in Texas, in a little town north of Austin, in November, one of the CO owners was tragically killed, shot and killed

Stephen Gomez 3:45
in the salon. So basically,

Stephen Gomez 3:49
it’s, it’s, it’s a devastating loss to the business, obviously to the team, to the community, but also financially, because she was an expert in what she did, and

Stephen Gomez 4:02
she was the only one that did some of the treatments that she did. So there’s a financial loss that’s attached to that clients having to find other places to go. So I did a instead of doing a GoFundMe, my my goal was to do a day of education to give back to people that were willing to donate so they could learn from some of the best in the business. So, yeah, I mean, other than that, full day, it was around the clock work for a good month and a half just to put everything on and get everything organized. But I do it 1000 times over.

Stephen Gomez 4:37
If I had to, I don’t want to. I don’t ever want to have to be in a situation. None of us do. But you know, are you going to be situational based? Are you going to be values based? Are you going to how are you going to meet moments, you know? And to me, it was a real easy ask, and thank you for being part of that.

Chris Baran 4:54
Yeah, you’re welcome. And you know, my heart goes out to Janae, and particularly my heart is. Full because of what you did. So just thank you for that. I just, I think that shows you kind of person that you are, appreciate you. So you know, you know, first of all, and every this, I always start at the same way, because, you know, I don’t know, you know, like, sometimes people just don’t know who the heck we are. You know what industry is so big? So just top line, what’s your hair story? What you know, what got you into the business, and how did that all transpire?

Stephen Gomez 5:23
Sure, I grew up around it. I’m a Chicago guy, although I live out in Southern California now. So I grew up around the business. I grew up around the restaurant business. I thought that would be my life path. I went to school for it, worked in my uncle’s chain of pizzas, and got burnt out on 90 hour weeks left that came over to our side, also

Chris Baran 5:46
dark side, right? Yeah,

Stephen Gomez 5:49
well, yeah, the fun side, let’s just say that. And was helping run the family biz and launched my own marketing company, marketed over 100 salons and spas over about an eight year stretch. I love what I did, but when it came to money management, I was horrific at it. I barely got past dollars Baran High School. Never thought I’d understand it, avoided it. My idea of profit was as long as the books are full of money’s coming in and bills are paid, and I got cash in my pocket, I’m good. I got audited. And this was way back in the day before we were as technologically savvy as we are or as digital as we are. So this was back in the day when we were a cash check. And if we took credit cards, we take the little slips, put the card under it, rub the pen, and that’s how we take credit cards. You know, that’s kind

Chris Baran 6:37
of how it was. I remember that well.

Stephen Gomez 6:39
So, you know, they looked at my bank statements and my sales receipts, they saw the cash discrepancy, because what do we do with the tips? And they went five years back on me. I owe them 80 grand. I didn’t have I had to go through bankruptcy. I lost my home. I was couch surfing at my mom’s and my brother’s trying to keep everything together. And it was at that time, a buddy of mine who’s in the industry. Introduced me to his coach. I couldn’t afford her. Couldn’t afford not to went back to the bank of mom. We’ve all hit that bank up at some point in our life, got some money to hire my coach, and I wanted to learn how to be financially organized. I wanted to get my shit together. I wanted to not give up on my business. I wanted to recover from it, so I started working with my coach, and I knew I needed to learn about Salon and Spa finance. But the biggest thing that I got out of working with my coach all those decades back was I had to shift my thinking first before I did anything else. Yeah, and that’s what I teach in one of my books. Thinking creates action or inaction, shifting your perception, looking at things a different way, changing your context, and then going about doing different things. That’s where the real power is. So the ability for my coach to help me realize that I was smart enough and that I could learn it that was a domino that tipped me in a completely different direction, and I went on to get everything organized. I rescaled and grew the business the right way. I was able to sell it for a profit. I was able to join the company. They gave me a chance to join them, and off I went. And I haven’t looked back. I’ve coached over 750 salon spas and clinics all over United States and North America. I’ve trained all over the world, Russia, Ireland, Italy, England, France, down to Bogota, Colombia, Mexico, Canada, Puerto Rico. I mean, I’ve been all over the place. And if you had asked me, this was my journey, I would have told you, you know, what are you what are you growing in your backyard and selling, you know,

Chris Baran 8:52
the same thing that they are in Bogota, exactly,

Stephen Gomez 8:57
you know. So I’m very blessed to have gone down the path that I’ve been on. I work with a company that got bought by Milady, and I worked with them as a subject matter expert and writer for nine years, and I left them in 2016 to launch my own brand. I’m going to celebrate on April 1, my 10 years of doing my own thing written two books. One is financial fitness systems that create Salon and Spa profitability. So if you think about it, I’m a guy that barely got past algebra and hated the math, and now I teach it, and I help people overcome their anxieties around it and become more confident while being more organized and data driven. And I also wrote a book called interdependent leadership, creating a culture of inclusive growth. I believe we can have the right data Chris and be data driven. But if I’ve got myself in a team of six people, and I’m the only one that’s looking at the data and then telling everybody what to do there, it’s like. You taught in my session, Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, they’re just going to do the basics because they’re being told. So my philosophy is, let’s get organized and be data driven, but let’s also lean into the six other minds that are in the business, because I’d rather have seven hearts and minds looking at things and coming up with plans, as opposed to one. So I wrote a book about creating an interdependent culture where you help people grow and confidently become autonomous, while inspired to continue to collaborate and contribute to the collective, to the whole and that as we’re all involved at the beginning of things that creates more buy in, that creates more execution. And as a leader, you only have to coach on habit and follow through, as opposed to perception and values. I’m working on my third book called the service cycle that’ll be coming out later this year, and I’m I was nominated for Naha Educator of the Year Two years ago. I see your hardware back there. That was a big honor for me. And I was honored that they created a category where somebody like myself could be acknowledged because, you know, usually US business coaches, we’re, you know, we’re kind of over here in our own little nerdy world. And, you know, I think the work that we do is vital to the success of a business and to the long term sustainability of it and the industry. So I was just honored to have been nominated so we can shine a light on the good work that we do over here. So, you know, nowadays, my wife and I, we spend our days training and developing people. We’re going to be launching another arm of our company this year. She’s going to be she’s going to school, and we’ll finish up, and later in the year, she’ll be a full time bookkeeper for salons and spas, because that’s a massive need that we find. So, you know, that’s a little bit about our journey,

Chris Baran 12:05
you know. Well, thank you. You know, you said something really interesting there you because you were talking about sooner, having seven minds, collaborating, you know. And I find it interesting because sometimes in the salon, there’s this comparison mentality. And I was just as a matter of fact, yesterday, I got an email from someone that was talking to me just about how, what can I do when you have somebody that is constantly comparing themselves against somebody else? And we know that’s a whole different dynamic right now with the social media, etc, where somebody else is thinner, taller, more bookings, makes more money, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And there’s this constant comparison against yourself, where it used to be your tribe was 30 or 40 people. Now it’s 7 billion people, and you can’t win on that, and so. But there was a quote that I that I started researching this and I and it was from Franklin Roosevelt, and he said, he said that, and I have to try to get this right in my brain. He said, Comparison is the thief of joy. And I found that so imprint interesting, and I want to bring that back to what you said and how it’s so profound when, if you have seven people working together collaboratively, rather than everybody working about what can I do versus and how does that compare against what you’re doing, etc, and make it more about The Beast, meaning the salon and the individuals working within within Can you just expand a little bit more on some of that so profound for stylists and owners,

Stephen Gomez 13:49
I think it’s inherent in all of us as humans to compare ourselves. We always have, we always will. It is, it’ll never stop. So I think if you come across anybody that you find that is trapping themselves by that. I think the first thing to do is realize that is to be empathetic about it, be understanding of it. It’s their humanity. There’s nothing wrong with it. And I think there’s, there’s two avenues to take as a leader. When you’re when you’re seeing somebody being comparative, ask yourself, when’s the last time you did the same thing and what you got out of it? So that way, you have a story to share that’s going to make that person feel related to the more relatable you are, the better. It’s not about me as a leader, having all the answers, as much as it’s about me having the wisdom of life, lived and experienced, is good and bad that I can convey to you, that can help you grow, and that can help you keep learning and moving through things and then asking that person the same question you just asked yourself. So you’re comparing yourself to XYZ. Tell me what you’re getting out of that. How does. Make you feel, if you were to continue to do that, what would be the long term impact of that for you? Questions, questions, questions, questions. Yes, I was taught by somebody that whenever you’re going to coach someone, prepare with at least three questions to ask. You might not get to them all, but at least you’re going in ready, and you’re putting yourself in their world, and somebody who is comparing themselves to somebody else and is sharing that with you, first of all, they respect you enough to share a vulnerability. So the best way to appreciate it is to empathize and share a time that you were, and then ask what they’re getting out of it. And that’s going to lead to more transparency and the more real you can get with somebody quicker and help them see there’s nothing wrong with comparing in any way, shape or form, as long as you’re conscious enough to ask yourself what you’re getting out of it, because then, if you ask yourself what you’re getting out of it, that opens the door for you to pivot in an empowered way out of it.

Chris Baran 16:00
Yeah, yeah. What I’m hearing you say, Stephen, is compare yourself with the person, not against the person, or compare your salon with the salon, rather than against it, because they might, you know generally, what happens in and that the response you were talking about a comparison as human nature. And I forget the exact name, but I believe it’s called the inner brains. Over evolution, we have this syndrome that’s in our brain, where it is a relationship syndrome that we have. And I don’t remember the exact name, but I do remember that it’s built into us over evolution. However, what most people do is they look at somebody that is better than them, or more advanced or whatever. And if you feel lesser than your body automatically kicks in cortisol, and then that’s the stress hormone, and that’s why people stress out. Whereas if you can compare yourself with someone you know and understand that, look at here’s where that person was, here’s where I am, here’s what I’ve learned. I can grow. Then all of a sudden you feel better, and then your dopamine is kicked in, and you think of it as a reward as opposed to a punishment. And then you can actually flourish, because now your brain wants more of that dopamine, and it’s going to actually kick in and you you see it as a reward, not a punishment.

Stephen Gomez 17:23
I love that. That’s really, really great. Yeah.

Chris Baran 17:26
Flourish, yeah. Flourish, with a with a special assault. Ish, I love it. I love it. School, that’s great. I want one more thing, because, you know, I know that your area of expertise is obviously finance, and it’s obviously anything about finance is profiting. So for the people that are listening out there, whether you’re a salon owner or even a stylist within what do you think is some of the key, if you like, 123, whatever mistakes that salon owners or people in our industry make when it comes to regarding profit.

Stephen Gomez 18:05
Okay, so I think the best way to answer that, I’m going to back up, I’m about myself. I am known for finance, but if anybody’s listening to this and they like the way I jam, just know that anything business related is my specialty, but you have to create a niche that creates attraction. And this is one of those hot button topics, so that’s why I’m constantly putting myself out there. But if you’re listening to me and you’re like, Well, it’s great, he’s talking about finance, but I have a recruiting issue or any help with marketing, or I need to implement systems and get my team involved. I need to grow sales. You know, how do I buy? How do I sell? How do I do evaluation? I’m this. This is where I’ve been living for 33 years now, pivoting into this conversation around finance, I think the the biggest challenge that I see is mindset just like the mindset I had. I’m not going to be smart enough to learn this and understand it. So the ability for people in our industry to be aware of how they think about the topic, that’s the domino that has to change that. If we don’t address how you’re relating to it, then I’m going to be wasting my time and conversation with you about it, because you’re still going to be stuck wearing these pair of glasses, instead of taking them off and creating a whole new awareness and thought process and shifting your thinking and putting on these pair of glasses. So it’s almost like I have a two day workshop that I take people through called financial fitness. It’s based on my book, and one of the opening exercises I do after that everybody gets to know each other is I ask people to share the first thought or feeling they have when I put an image up on the screen. So I set them up and then. Throw an image of a spreadsheet up, and nine out of the 10 people are writing down, ugh. Throw up. Sick to my stomach. Overwhelm, tedious, not excited. All these things, right? So then I say, okay, so yet you’re here, and you know you need to learn this, but you’re bringing this thinking to the conversation. It’s not the subject matter, and it’s not the facilitator. It’s not going to be me the next two days or what I’m teaching. It’s you choosing to relate to this based on what you just wrote down right now. Overwhelm. Ugh, ick. Not excited. Whatever you wrote, you are in control of the journey. And then I have them draw a line underneath what they wrote, and give me the polar positive opposite of what they wrote, from overwhelmed to excited, from scared and fear to curious and pumped up whatever it is, whatever they come up with. And then at the end of day one, I asked them, and then I asked them to learn that way, because they control how they learn. And very rarely do I have to remind them to get back into that thinking, especially owners, because they just they’re there. They’re hungry. Once they realize, oh my goodness, it’s my I’m relating to it this way. I have to shift. So the opening chapters of my book are all around shifting thinking and mindset and then getting into action. Yes, the other challenge that I see is that they’re not carving out enough time to and, and, and there’s, I’d say, two other things. So it’s thinking, getting the data organized so it’s industry specific. Most P and ls that I come across are way too basic. It says income instead of saying service sales, retail sales, gift card sales, rental income, accessory sales. There’s no separation. And what makes our industry so awesome and so beautiful and unique is that we’re multiple businesses under one roof. We’re a service business, we’re a retail business, we’re a gift card business, we might be a membership business, we might be a rental business. We have all these different income streams, and they must be tracked separately, analyzed separately, they have different systems. They have different languaging, different marketing and positioning. They have different expenses all attached to them. So they’re separate companies. So it starts with the P and L, separating all of it out, so we can start looking at each business in and of itself, as its own business. And then we must separate out expenses like back bar and retail inventory are all lumped together, so nothing’s organized in that P and L, so we don’t really know how the business is performing. So what I do is I help people get everything organized in a very industry specific way, and then we begin to track where your percentages are versus where they should be. And then that leads us down the rabbit holes into into the different businesses so that we can attack and strengthen areas. So it’s shifting your thinking, having you get empowered to want to learn and understand it, getting it organized. And then the next piece is on an ongoing basis, giving yourself the time to look at it, to get reflective and analytical, so that you’re not being busy, exhausted, reactionary and emotional when something occurs, you’re being thoughtful, proactive, analytical and planned, calm and poised. So then that’s the energy you’re bringing to the rest of your team. So then you’re leading instead of managing. To me, those are the biggest challenges that I see owners making and not getting the team involved. We talked about that a minute, 510, minutes ago. Team involvement is critical. I believe everybody is smart and everybody wants to contribute. And if given the chance to put their thinking caps on, people are going to think critically. Which is going to make them be more responsible, which is going to make them feel more included, which is going to make them want to play a bigger part. It’s going to make them want to stay longer, as opposed to leaving and going solo, or leaving and going to another place, because their thoughts, their ideas, matter. It’s collaborative. Those are the to me, those are the four things right there.

Chris Baran 24:39
Yeah, think, and you know what I what I’m again, I’m taking away from this. I’m trying. I have a tendency of going down rabbit holes, and I’m not trying. That’s why I’m thinking. I’m trying not to do that right now, but I’m what I what I’ve learned along the way. I had a conversation with a with a longtime owner and very successful owner. Of several businesses, several salons. And he made the comment, they said that it’s it’s the wild been it used to be the wild, wild west out there when it came to everything. And then all of a sudden everything calmed down. Probably some of the some of the professional product lines helped to smooth out everything, make it more professional environment. And his comment the other day was that it we’re going back to the wild wild west again. What’s sparking This is where everybody is well, I’m just going to go and work with you till I get the training and I’m going to go on my own. And that’s not necessarily where I want to go. But what I am saying is, what I like you’re saying, is, if everybody is involved and knows what the company is going financially as well. And they start to for all of us, visual people that understand that, that it’s it’s easy and good in order to have the numbers, but if you’re think of it, just as those dollar signs do the picture of the all the dollar bills and and that profit is exactly that. And I know what we and what we’ve instituted with our company, is that we have a certain amount of percentage points that we take from our profit as bonuses that are given out. And if everybody knows what that is, it starts to send back when they understand and they’ve got a vested interest and know they can get a reward when there is that, it creates loyalty. Is because more, the more vulnerable, not vulnerable, the more what’s the word I’m looking for, open book that you are about everything transparent. Thank you. It’s one of them that had more than four letters, so I thank you for the big word. But the more transparent that you are, the more that they’ll get involved. And the more that they’re involved, the more it creates loyalty, and the less, the more loyalty is, the less likelihood they’re

Stephen Gomez 26:43
going to want to leave Absolutely and you know, if I’d add to once we get everybody shifting these things, getting the basics and the foundations in there, you know, and where everything is organized and laid out, and they’re being fastidious about what they’re Looking at on a regular basis, then the next step is getting further organized to make that money work for you. Most owners are just taking what’s left over, which is another challenge. So I want them included in their goal setting to pay for to pay themselves as an expense of the business, and then we set a goal for what’s going to be left over, and that profit then becomes operating capital that we start to save. So so that way, we’re not just hoping there’s something left over, if there is, they just pay themselves. So there’s, there’s no nest egg that being made for the salon or spa, and the business needs operating capital to function and work from some of them will get excited when there’s leftover money. Okay, I’m going to pay myself, and I’m going to chunk down this bill. Okay, great. Well, pay yourself, you know, as an expense. First and foremost, you’ll never need to take extra, because you’re paying yourself as an expense. So if it’s costing you $5,000 a month to run your life, or to contribute 5000 into you and your significant others managing your household life, then let’s grow the business so that you pay yourself 5000 and you are now an expense. You’re a bill to pay. Then let’s say we got 6000 left over. So let’s take half of that if you know you want to chunk down debt. Or let’s take two grand to chunk down debt, two grand because you know you need to do immediate leasehold improvements and fix something or buy a new computer, and the other two grand we’re saving and just socking away for two purposes, a rainy day, money. So if a water heater breaks, you’re not putting it on a credit card, so it’s there and it’s operating capital, and then b We’re saving and planning for retirement. And then every 90 days, take half of that money and then sock that into the IRAs, plug that money in where you can’t touch it anymore, so that you’re or a money market account or whatever you’re doing, so that way, you’re working the short term game by paying yourself. You’re not worried about being behind the chair or everybody doing stuff to make a buck, to pay a bill to get by. You’re handling that. You’re alleviating that anxiety, and then you’re focusing on the rest of the money and profit that’s left over. You’re managing it in a way that’s going to support and continue to spur growth and saving for the future. And if we’re talking to any stylists that are out there that might be listening to this, here’s my recommendation to you, save your tips. Save your retail commission if you get it, and if you add on a treatment that wasn’t scheduled and you get how, let’s say you get 50% commission you add on $100 cover, $100 color, ooh, you just made an extra 50 bucks this week. Save that too. It wasn’t on your books to be. In with it. You made the money. Don’t blow the money. And when it’ll take you 90 days to feel uncomfortable about saving your tips and not spending it, but after 90 days, you’re going to fall into a rhythm where it’s going to be fine and you’re going to be used to it. So when you’re saving your tips, you’re saving that 10, 15% whatever your owner’s paying you commission off of retail, and you’re saving add on money that is your financial future. That’s your nest egg that you’re building so that you can go and and create that retirement for yourself. Yeah, let’s begin to get disciplined. Let’s lean in because it is uncomfortable. Let’s grow our wings on the way down. But you got to take the leap and make some changes. If not, you’re just going to be doing it the same way, and you’re going to be forced to be behind a chair to make a buck, to pay a bill, to get by for 30 to 40 years. Don’t do that.

Chris Baran 31:02
I bet we have something in common. I have this love hate relationship. I hate paying for something that I’m not using. I hate working in a small, cramped box, yet I love working in a cool salon that impresses my clients, and I love the culture and synergy of a team while enjoying the freedom of being my own boss. You too. What if all that was available to you at the salon you rent from meet artist on go, a game changing way to rent salon space with artist on go, you only pay for the time you’re behind the chair. You can choose a salon that fits your vibe, location and amenities with artist on go, you’re a part of a stylist community, not hustling alone. Plus, you get to enjoy perks like clean towels and back bar supplies. Check out artist on go, built for stylists serious about their clients and growing their brand without the hassles of managing a space. Here’s the kicker, you can save more than 50% on your rent to find out more. Go to B, I T, dot L y slash. Artist on go, C, B, that’s B, I T, dot L, Y, slash, artist on go, CB. And there’s so many people that do that, whether they’re owners or or or stylists, where it’s just okay, what do I do to my end game? Because now I still have to be doing hair behind the chair, because I still got bills to pay, and I’ve got anything my account. And if they can do that and understand the magic of compound interest, then that’s what that’s where they get. That’s where

Stephen Gomez 32:44
their retirement lies, the whole nine yards. Then that’s what I’m working towards so I can have a cool room like you, with all that lighting. Look at that logo, all the hardware. You know, I’m not going to ever be as good looking as you, man. But hey, oh,

Chris Baran 32:58
please, but I’ll talk to tell you. You know, that sign up there that was a birthday present from my team, my son, and the team that was, and it was, and so I love it up there with pride. I want to, I want to throw this because you, you said something that was truly profound out there. And you, you talked about, you know, first of all, what? And this is the point I want to get to when a when the salon owner finally seeks help, and they this might be a two parter, so I’m gonna try to break it up into one at a time. First point I get it, I get a coach. It’s a business coach, and the both the business coach is gonna have to give me some love punches, and I’ve got to, I’m going to have to make some changes, yep, and, and I’m going to institute those changes, and all of a sudden, the stylists, the other people that are working within there, they’re saying, This isn’t going to work, or it doesn’t happen immediately, and they don’t immediately see the glory that happens in that change, and they’re not willing to, and they go to the they go to the owner, and they’re saying, This isn’t working. This isn’t working. This isn’t working. What do you say to them? What do you say to those stylists? I have a

Stephen Gomez 34:14
complete Well, I’m not going to say completely different, but I’ll just share my approach, and I believe that my approach lessens that from happening consistently. A lot of times people will like, when I met you, was last year at the premier Orlando show. I was teaching a class, you came by, you and Lee came by, you know, and that’s what, that’s when we met. And anybody can see me do a keynote, or hear me on something like this and or see me speak, and you know it’s sexy, and you get enamored, you’re like, oh my goodness, I think I found somebody that can help me that’s emotional. So to me, if you’re interested in working with a coach, there better be a vetting process. So let’s say I meet you because you come. To my class, and at the end of the class, and, you know, like in Anaheim, coming up in a couple of weeks, you come out and say, Okay, I want to find out how I can work with you as a coach. Great. Here’s a questionnaire. You got to fill this out and give me your financial statements in whatever shape they’re in, and I’m going to need it by next Monday. You don’t get that to me by next Monday, I’m not engaging. You know, that tells me that you weren’t serious. Yeah, that tells me you’re all over the place. So my first signal is, am I getting the information on point? If I’m getting it a few days later, there’s the interest there. People are still there, you know? But some people will will walk away and never get me that stuff, right? So if I get it back, that tells me I have somebody who’s serious, and considering then I do my analysis, because I’m not just going to hire somebody because I need to make a buck, you know, or have them hire me. I’m not just going to work with anybody unless I know that a the business is has cash flow to afford having me around, or based on the volume of client base, we can rev up those income producing engines in 60 to 90 days and pay to have me around. It’s something I pride myself on doing. You’re going to feel the investment of Steve the first two to three months, but by the time we get to the end of the third month, you’re growing behind the scenes with our work, but we’re making more top line cash flow to pay for me, so that way, I don’t want anybody getting into the program with me coming from what they lack, worried about a bill that’s a barrier to educating yourself. You’re creating anxiety right from the get go, worrying about something. So I’m very particular, and I’m listening for in, in my vetting process, I’m asking lots of questions to really understand somebody’s thinking, somebody’s confidence level or not, are they iffing? Maybe in I don’t know. I’m looking for people that are confident, that are hungry, that are urgent, that are clear they need to get to work. And I let people know right away, this is not sexy. It’s not fun. You’re gonna, you’re gonna, you’re gonna like me, you’re gonna love me. You’re gonna hate me, you’re gonna want to quit. It’s the nature of this. I am here to turn the mirror this way and have you look. You’ll love some of the things you see, you won’t like some of the things you see. But I’m not here on behalf of how you feel. I’m here, first and foremost, on behalf of every guest, getting the very best from you and your team for their hard earned money. You’re lucky they’re spending at your business. Number one. Number two, I’m here on behalf of everybody that works with you, that’s trusting you with their livelihood, putting their career in your hands, getting the very best environment to be in to have that happen for themselves. I’m then here on behalf of the business being solvent, financially, culturally and systematically. I’m then here on behalf of what you want. I’m then here on behalf of what I get out of it. You and I are at the bottom of this thing. If you’re looking to get help from me so that you get something out of it. I’m not your guy, because we’re here for everybody else, right? You know? And typically, when I go through and I vet, I then am getting somebody into my program who’s ready to walk with me. I’m responsible to create the path. They’re responsible to walk the path. Now, that being said, Chris, getting to your other part the resistance, anything that I’m coaching you on that you then are going to go introduce to the team, because they’re going to have to do it. You will not introduce that to them until you do it yourself. And I know that you’ve got it nailed, because here’s what happens. People go to hair shares. And they go to classes, especially like a business class, where you get this idea, and you bring it home, and you just spew it all over the team. Oh, my God, I just got this great idea. We’re going to do this. We’re going to do that, you know, and the team’s like, holy shit. And they become resistant, and they do it again. Maslow’s hierarchy of leadership needs, because they have to, and they’re being told, as opposed to creating, buy in. To me, the best pathway to buy in is if you found something you want to introduce to the team, you don’t introduce it until you go through your journey and you know it backwards and forwards. So a, you can be an expert on it. B, you’re then going to be able to have that empathy and understanding of what you’re asking them to do, because you experienced it yourself. Leadership should be experiential. Managing is conceptual. There is a difference, and it’s a fine line. I help people be aware of them, and then I don’t care if it takes four or five coaching sessions for three months until you got it nailed, we’re just simply not going to introduce something to a team member until you’re the expert. Another thing for me is I don’t like my clients, telling people that they’re working with me until we need to, because then it’s the coach said, and you take your power away. I want I train you. You to go lead your team. Now, if you have a team of seven or eight or more, then I am going to come into the business and do an on site training, but not for four to six months until, like, not for four to six months in I’m we’re going to work together. I’m going to transform you. You’re going to have grown as a leader before I’m even in there, you know, so to me, those are the ways that I handle that. And by doing those things, we lessen people coming back and saying, I don’t want to do blah, blah, blah. But even if we get met with that, I don’t necessarily even relate to it as resistance. I become curious. Okay, this is cool. Let me know what you like. Share with me what your thinking is. Where are you coming from? And see, that’s the thing that I see a lot of owners struggle with. Where we come up with the word, like you said, they resist. Why can’t somebody have another opinion. Why can’t they come from their lens of experience and share how they’re seeing and relating to things? What? There’s nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. You know, it’s the ability of a leader is to is seeking to understand, Okay, tell me what you’re thinking. Tell me where that’s coming from, you know. Let’s work through this together. I’ve actually had some breakthroughs implementing this thing, so let’s talk through it so that, so that I can understand where you are, and so that we can meet in the middle, you know. I think that has to be the launch point, you know, and now and then listening for at that point, if you’re acknowledging where somebody’s coming from, and you’re acknowledging that, I’m glad you have a differing way of thinking, let’s talk together like what I did There was create an opening for real conversation, not my way versus your way, but let’s dance around this thing together. If at that point I’m still being met with resistance, then it’s not what I’m asking you to implement or adopt take on. It’s more than likely a breakdown in values between us, and that’s what owners have to be listening for. In my book interdependent leadership, I teach about how to lead and and, and I have a chapter that gets into how to coach when you have a breakdown, and typically, breakdowns are going to be either values based, and I have a little pyramid, it’s values based perceptual or behavioral. And the usually people just look at the behavior and they coach on the behavior, as opposed to stopping and saying, okay, is this a breakdown in thinking, Okay, well, no, we’re thinking the same way, you know, or you know, he understands my why, you know. And I just created that opening that I did a second ago with you so that you can share honestly, but if I still get resistance out of you and edge, then it’s values based. And if it’s a values based issue. Now we’re not even talking about dancing around this thing anymore. We’re talking about, okay, I feel like there’s something deeper here, because I’m giving you an opening for us to talk together on the same level. However, I’m still feeling resistance, so that makes I don’t want to make something up, because I could be making up that you’re not happy with me, or something going on in the salon. So what’s the rub? What’s going on here? What gives to me when we’re coaching somebody who is challenged by something, be curious about the why? Don’t be upset that they might have a differing point of view, or that they’re struggling to see the way you see things. Our commitment must be as leaders, to ask questions, to not be triggered by

Stephen Gomez 44:07
the negative response, to not be triggered by it, but to be curious of it, to seek to understand, to respect that person as a human being. And when you have them feel respected, and when you ask questions to create openings, nine out of 10 times, if there’s no values based disconnect, you’re going to get right after it. You’re going to come to a meeting of the minds, and you’re going to solve and work through, you know, but, but what I see is ego gets in there. Oh my god, Chris is resisting what I need him to take on. And I need Chris to take this on because we have to increase our retail to service percentage by blah, blah, blah. It’s very me driven, very egoistic thinking. And again, that’s humanity. There’s nothing wrong with it. Any owners listening to this, if you’re resonating with what I’m sharing, there’s nothing wrong with if you’ve reacted that way, just notice that you’re coming from me, not we. And the best thing to do. Constantly be looking at how conversations can be collaborative, and we based, yeah.

Chris Baran 45:06
And I love though you’re talking about the understanding, you know. And I think there’s that, that saying that see, and it’s seek to understand, and then seek, Seek first to understand, then be understood, yep. So you’re always looking at the other side of what, you know, what is it do I need to understand about what you’re saying versus you understanding me, you know? And I think that that kind of, that kind of leads us into when, when you are going to get some confront, confrontation and confront. Just mean, the simple term and meaning of confront is a meeting of minds, you know. And if you can just meet that together and just to find out, okay, I need to understand where your problems are, you can understand where I’m at. That’s when everything works out, and you shouldn’t be afraid of confrontation. Yeah, you know, it’s there. It’s not and nobody wakes up in the morning, has a little cup of coffee, stretch and go. Can’t wait to have some confrontation today. But the reality is, it’s life. You know that is

Stephen Gomez 46:06
unless, for me, being a White Sox fan from the south side of Chicago is cub fans, I’m all about those confrontations.

Chris Baran 46:12
Anyway, as long as you can do that and have a beer after another

Stephen Gomez 46:19
thing, Chris is, um, my commitment is to help people cultivate and curate like heartedness before like mindedness. And that’s been

Chris Baran 46:29
again. Say that again. Say that one

Stephen Gomez 46:31
more time. Being values based is being like hearted, H, E, A, R, T, heart. Like hearted, then like minded. You know, we’re always trying to make sure people are you on the same page with me. We got to think and see things the same way to me, the more we can continue to get back to what are your inherent values? What are the things that get you up and drive you and have you feel that you’re operating at the optimum? What does that look like? Because maybe when I hired you, you resonated with my values and where you were, I resonated with yours. But it doesn’t mean a year from now or two years from now, or five years from now, or even five months from now, that your values haven’t shifted, and what you look for and what you want and what you’re driven by hasn’t. And I think that’s another massive issue in any industry, is a business will be clear about their values and create their vision and mission statements, and then you know, all right, well, that worked for you five years ago when you launched and it was just you and 10 people. Now there’s 25 of you. Completely different iteration here, completely different business. So in my book, I have an exercise where I have owners go through and recreate, or if they’ve never done it, really choose and then create their core values, and then define what the values mean to you personally, not Webster’s version. And then also what’s a specific action, a step, something you can actually do in the here and now in the world, something tangible that has that value be lived into. So it’s not just something fluffy and fun that’s that’s on your website under vision statement. So to me, once you, once you do that exercise, as an owner, you have to allow your team to do the same. And then get everybody together and get a bunch of flip chart paper up there, have everybody write their top five core values, and then start circling the common ones. And the common ones, those are the businesses core values moving forward. Owners, don’t be attached that everybody must follow your four or five values. If, as the collective 10 of you resonate collectively with these four or five values, they must be integrated into your business. If not, you’re gonna have people skimming the surface and never, never really stick in the landing.

Chris Baran 48:56
Yeah, yeah. And I think you hit what I love that you were saying about. Write them down, because I’m sure you could ask everybody, do you have values? Now? Because they’re going to say, of course, yes, I have values. But I’ll bet you, as you asked them the next question was, what are they they couldn’t tell you sure unless they’ve thought them through, sat with their team and said, what are our values? I mean, our our team has been through that and and I’ll give you one more, one quick thing on this, and I want to jump you into our rapid fires. But I can recall when we were doing ours, our coach was putting us through the ringer, I’m going to say about coming up with our own values and and we told him we got all this big list of values. And then, and he did something with this says, I want to, I want you to put down your bee hag. We said, What’s a bee hag? And they said, your big, hairy, audacious goals, yeah. And we said, well, we want to have, we want to have an island of our own, that, that, that we can have to, we can have of our own. And we go to and have our vacations on and. I I said, Yeah, and then we could discuss business. My wife said, well, then we better have two islands, because on my island there will be no business talk. But you know, it was interesting when we established that and we put down our goals, and our coach looked at us and went, I’m really interested. You have these big, hairy, audacious goals, and yet you don’t have abundance as a value. And we said, abundance is a value. And he said, Of course, it’s a value. You can have abundance of love, you can have abundance of finance, you can have abundance of relationships, you can have abundance of kindness. And we went abundance went on, on our core values. And I think that that, that that my point is, if you don’t have them, you got to have those right now, because if you, if, when you’re you and your people get together, and you have somebody else that you’re hiring, you can’t change your core values there based on somebody else’s core values. You can integrate them maybe later, but integrate you’ve got to say, here’s our values. Are they your values? And if they’re not your values, then you you should not be working here.

Stephen Gomez 51:03
I’m going to be honest with you about something. You know, my philosophy is that a core value is a deeply held driving force in law, in life, and for anybody listening to this, it’s where you draw a line in the sand and say, This is who I am. This is how I operate. I have to have this in my present life on a daily basis. So when you’re creating values for your business, you got to think about, what are those deeply held driving forces that you must be feeling and experiencing on a daily basis to have you feel fully alive, fully empowered, kicking ass and taking names, you know? So those are the values that must drive and fuel you, and you must, then, in your hiring process, create questions around those values, which will then, without even telling somebody, this is one of our core values, Chris, but I’m going to ask two or three questions to see how you answer related to that core value for me, yes, because if I tell you it’s a value, then you know your your conscious, egoistic mind trying to get a job is going to tell me what you think I want to hear. I’m going to tell you it’s one of our deeply held driving forces here. I’m just going to ask a couple questions around it, and I’m going to be listening not only to what you say, but how you say it, and see if, do you sit up. Do you get fired up? Do you get engaged? And are you moved by it? Are you just kind of lazily answering exceeded back, kind of giving me an answer that’s articulate, but not on fire, right? You know, so to me, that’s being values based and incorporating that into what you do. Before we get to rapid fire. You brought up two things that I am compelled to want to share, but I want you to time me. Give me one minute on each we’ll do it. Hold on. We’re gonna All right. So we’re doing a new Rapid Fire here, right? Okay, here we go. Ready? First, you asked me when we were kicking the can around to talk about people that work in a suite, that work for themselves, need to, need to be entrepreneurial in their thinking, not self employed. Look, it’s easy to go choose to work for yourself everybody, but the minute you do that, you have to understand that you are now the cook, Baker and candlestick maker, and if all you’re going to do is get into that suite and and just post pictures on social media of your work or do a paid ad and hoping that that’s going to help you grow. Think again, you run a business, and your business needs your attention. Your business needs you to focus on how you’re marketing it, how you’re serving your guests, the cash flow, and managing your money and running your systems. And if you’re not invested in learning how to run the business aspect of it, you’re wasting your time and spinning your wheels. If you’re going to be a business owner, learn and jump into and engage every aspect of the business. Secondly, we were kicking the can around price increase. So I’m just going to say this to everybody. Why are we one of the only industries that we struggle with this? It’s a it’s a security and confidence thing. We believe we’re going to lose people, and a lot of them, or we don’t want to ruffle feathers, because we think people are going to be mad and not like it. So first of all, let’s say you got 200 clients in your database. If one or two people complain, in my experience, you focus on the one or two that complain, instead of the 198 that didn’t skip a beat. So notice where you’re focusing. Are you being dramatic and being hooked in or are you focused on not skipping a beat, owning your power and charging what you deserve for the work that you’re doing, for the experience that you provide, for the wisdom that you have? You are an expert. You also should be setting your prices based upon your expenses. You getting paid in the business, getting paid. I said before at the top, then divide that into the number of guests you see. That’s going to give you what your price point should be versus where you are now. And if there is a disconnect there, it doesn’t matter how you feel. You have to raise your prices so you can run a solvent business. Raise your prices. Your feelings are valid. But even if you lose 10 people, here’s what everybody else does. I’m going a little bit longer, and I’m sorry, but this is critical. Everybody focuses on what they think they’re going to lose. A lacking conversation. Nothing wrong with it. But let’s get into abundant growth minded thinking everybody. And here’s how track how many new clients a month you’re getting, because if you lost 10 people from the price increase, but you see 30 new clients a month, of which a third of them you retain, then there’s 10 new retain. You’re getting 30 clients in the month at the new price. You lost 10. You retain 10 out of those 30, and you’re broke even in one month. Typically, if you lose significant amounts of clients because you have a more aggressive price increase, I see you making the money back within 60 to 90 days. So let’s get over it. Everybody, charge your worth. Track that new client acquisition and let that empower your price increases, because the new clients coming in had no idea what you were charging anyways, and they’re paying for it.

Chris Baran 56:27
Yeah, and what I like about what you’re what I love, what I loved, by the way, on the first one, you hit it to the second. Okay, good. I would have let you go forever on those because there are two really hot topics. And the one that I what I always say to that when people are talking about when raising your price is, well, I don’t care what you’re doing, whether it’s nails or a haircut or a color or whatever that might be, you know, massage, whatever. Just make sure that if the value, if the cost of it was for easy, figuring $25 the value of it, the experience should be worth 35 or 40. And if you’re going to raise your price to 35 or 40, then the value that you’re giving, the the experience that you’re you’re giving, should be worth at least 60 to 70. People will never complain about the price if the value and the experience equals

Stephen Gomez 57:21
what the price is, amen, Chris and and the last thing I’ll say is you don’t even have to tell people you’re raising your prices. You know, the grocery store doesn’t, the gas station certainly doesn’t, you know, just raise your prices, right? You don’t. You don’t have to explain yourself or justify how brilliant you are to anybody. If they don’t like it, they can kick rocks and go find another place. You can still go have brunch with them on Sunday or happy hour on Friday night. You’re running a business and they’re not up at night worried about paying your bills. You are

Chris Baran 57:50
Own Your Power. Preach, brother. Preach brother, own

Stephen Gomez 57:53
your power. All right, rapid fire, I’m ready. Here we go.

Chris Baran 57:57
All right, things in life that you love the most. My wife

Stephen Gomez 58:02
reading, traveling and seeing the world, golfing and exercise. And I love sports, and I love currently that my Miami Hurricanes are playing for the championship on Monday night. I’m really excited

Chris Baran 58:18
about that. Those are some things and things in life you dislike the most

Stephen Gomez 58:24
rude people, people that don’t listen, people that aren’t willing to engage a differing point of view. So there’s no intellectual discourse. It’s just one sided righteousness that drives me bat shit crazy.

Chris Baran 58:45
Yeah, a person that you admire the most.

Stephen Gomez 58:51
I admire my wife for who she is and for how real she is and for how she continues to show up in the face of no agreement, and a lot of areas in her world. So I’d start with her. One of my biggest heroes was Ben Franklin. There’s an amazing book by Walter Isaacson that he that is a biography of his, of his life, and I invite anybody to read it and not come away inspired. I feel lazy. I felt lazy when I read that book about all the different ways that man just continued to be curious and reinvent himself. He’s one of my biggies. Love Franklin.

Chris Baran 59:27
Love it. The actually, this might be, this something similar, person you wish you could meet.

Stephen Gomez 59:36
Oh, well, I mean, yeah, I’d love to meet him. I would be amazing. I would I would love to meet James Garfield, having just watched his show, and I’m reading the book now. He was very eloquent, one man who got up and made one speech and spoke from his heart, and it changed the whole axis of himself and the nation. I’m a lover of Reverend. Revolutionary and presidential history. So I love all that stuff. I nerd out on it. I would love to go back and meet a lot of those guys, Lincoln. I mean, I’d love to have a conversation with Lincoln. Be Amazing.

Chris Baran 1:00:14
A month off. Where would you go? What would you do?

Stephen Gomez 1:00:16
I’ve had the luxury of being able to do this in my past. My wife and I want to retire to Puglia, which is the southeastern heel of Italy, and we’ve been twice in the last 15 months. And there’s an amazing mass area, mass area potenti. It’s one of our favorite places. It’s like being dipped in butter. It’s just awesome there. Love it. Love to do that. Love always want to go there. But, you know, I guess I’m a top two guy. We just went to Japan last year, and I’d love to do a month over there again. I mean, that’s what a culture to be in.

Chris Baran 1:00:50
Yeah, thing that terrifies you,

Stephen Gomez 1:00:55
thing that terrifies me, is settling for things in my life that I know I can be better at. Having beaten cancer, you know, and lived through that and died on the operating table and come back and all the stuff I went through like I’m very committed to live as fully as I can with my second chance I’ve been given.

Chris Baran 1:01:15
Wow, wow, wow. Okay, you’re gonna love this one favorite curse word.

Stephen Gomez 1:01:25
I’m gonna say it in a few, a few accents. I’ll say it normally, fucker, yeah, and I almost say fucker, and then I’m going to say fucker. That’s right, you fucker, you know, one of my favorites, you know, but sometimes it’s gonna be plural, like I’ll probably when I’m rooting for the hurricanes against the Hoosiers on Monday night and my team that messes up. I’ll probably yelling at the TV with the beer in my hand, saying, fuckers.

Chris Baran 1:01:57
I think I might know. I might have an idea of where this is going. But favorite comfort food, oh,

Stephen Gomez 1:02:02
man, gosh, I can’t just say one, right? I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s a well made, homemade gravy and pasta, right? Gonna get me going anytime my my wife is, is Guatemalan Salvadoran, and when she makes her Albon de gas and her calves, she makes her soups, it drives me out of my mind. It’s one of my faves, but I’m also a hard shell taco guy. It’s weird, you know, but those are some comfort foods I just can’t seem to get away from. And I always want all the time.

Chris Baran 1:02:39
Love it, yeah? One do over, one do over, and I won’t take that at that. What people say, Well, I wouldn’t change anything, but if you had one do over, something, you could have changed from the past. What would that be?

Stephen Gomez 1:02:51
I would definitely have started an IRA way sooner. Bingo, way way sooner. Yeah, it would have been squirreling away and saving at a much younger age because of that compound interest.

Chris Baran 1:03:05
Yeah, boy, I’m with you on that one. And just before I get to the last question on here, if people want to get a hold of you, Steven, how do they do that?

Stephen Gomez 1:03:15
Well, you can follow me on Instagram at Salon coach, s, j, G, those are my initial Stephen James Gomez, so at Salon coach, s, j, G, you can direct message me there. My email is info at Steven gomez.net, that’s S, T, E, P, H, E, N, G, O, M, E, z.net,

Chris Baran 1:03:35
or Zed for Canadians,

Stephen Gomez 1:03:36
listening, yeah. And then my website is www dot Steven gomez.net, those are the ways that you can get a hold of me. And, you know, get out to live events. I know there’s a lot of online education. This is an iteration of it, but come see me. Come meet me. Come shake my hand. You know, go to the premiere show in Anaheim or Orlando, especially Orlando. It’s such a great show to be at. It’s the largest one left in the industry. Come to abs. Be in Chicago. Get out and get get out of your environment and come meet us. Come talk. Get inspired, get educated. Be around your community and enter the competitions. Everybody, the global Image Awards, the Nahas, stretch yourself, get uncomfortable, get into a place where you’re where you’re vulnerable, and you’re having to do something that you’ve never done before. That’s how you grow.

Chris Baran 1:04:32
I love it. Steven. Last question, if you had one wish for our industry, what would it be

Stephen Gomez 1:04:39
that that we embrace change, that we embrace that we’ve never arrived we that we all constantly continue to look to grow in every area. Why are the business classes around the hall, outside the door, over. Over into the other building, snorkel underwater, cross The cross the thing, and they’re down in the dungeon. Are the business classes? And why are we so technically driven? We must be, but your business is a well rounded thing. It’s a business. So embrace technique, embrace being a better thinker, embrace being a better communicator, embrace being financially organized, embrace marketing, embrace technology, embrace and learn everything there is to know about it all, even if you don’t actively do it, you should know it. It’s just going to make you better. If our industry adopted that thinking, My goodness, we would be that much more explosive. Love it, Steven.

Chris Baran 1:05:45
I mean, I’m just, I’m in awe here. I When you said that earlier about going through cancer, I want to just say two things about you that I love is that you talked about a second chance. And I, I’m, I’m hoping that when people, after listening to you, will realize you don’t have to go through cancer to have a second chance or to give yourself a second chance. That’s number one. Number two is what I love that you were talking about is, yes, you talked about a business that’s your area of expertise, but everything you talked about was literally a life skill as well. So for passing on those business and those life skills, Steven, I just want to say thank you. You are an incredible human being, an incredible coach, and I love the fact of how you want to grow our industry. So Stephen, from the bottom of my heart, I want to say thank you for giving up your time energy to be here and share with our audience.

Stephen Gomez 1:06:36
Thank you, brother. It was my honor to be with you. You are a trailblazer. You were one of those people that until I met you last year, and thank you, Jason, effort. Thank you, man. You know, until I met you last year, you were somebody I was hoping to meet one day. You have you continue to reinvent yourself, and you set a great example for our industry and for people in the future that that want to be in this industry. So my on. My humbled honor to be with you today, and thank you for having me. I look forward to kicking many cans around the campfire with you down the road my

Chris Baran 1:07:13
brother and a couple beers as well into that. Let’s hoist them, Steven. Thank you so much, my friend.

Stephen Gomez 1:07:19
Awesome. Have a good rest of your day. Thank you, and thank you, and thank you to anybody who listened.

Chris Baran 1:07:25
Thanks again for watching this episode, and if you liked what you heard, remember to smash that like or follow button, depending on your preferred platform, and make sure to share it with anyone you know that might be a fellow head case. Head cases is produced by cut action media, with Marjorie Phillips doing the planning parts, Lee Baran on the video bits, and Adrian Taverner mixing the audio jazz you.