ep50 – Drew Schaefering

headcases

This week’s guest is a long time friend of mine. He is a New York City-based session artist, a world-traveling brand educator, and a truly passionate editorial artist. Please welcome Drew Schaefering!

• Drew went to college for finance and marketing and his future looked set when his dad told him to let the finance job go and go to cosmetology school

• Listen to Drew’s approach to the unique challenges of editorial work

• How does Drew work with his team on editorial fashion shoots?

• How does he keep the avenues of creativity flowing when he is considering his next hair project?

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes? We love and admire and to ask them how did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success

Well, welcome to head cases and this is going to be a good one this week. We have a gentleman that is a L’Oreal Professionnel artist. He is a New York City based session artist is an internationally known and super well traveled educator. He is a consistent player on the Fashion Week scene and in my mind is probably one of the finest and true and passionate editorial artists that are out there. So let’s get into this week’s head case. Drew Schaefering, Drew Schaefering it is such a pleasure to have you on here so welcome to Head Cases. Thanks

Drew Schaefering 1:08
Chris. I was really excited when Yeah, when I heard saw read everything that you reached out you’re doing this and I was like well this is a blast from the past because a long time since we talked Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:19
I think we were just talking about that earlier just so that people are listening or watching right now. The thing five years ago I think was the last time that you when I had quality time together just sitting and chatting and doing hair and that was at NAHA when we were doing we were doing the presentation for the opening or whatever session it was in the middle of it and it was just really fun to get out and hang and do hair. So yeah, always a pleasure always a pleasure my friend so this is I want to just was started off with and pretty much every time we do this people that I don’t know who wouldn’t know you but for the people that may not I think it’s always interesting to find out that we’ve got such a people in our industry that are you know, our our legends are icons of people that have moved up the ladder how they got into the industry. So I know a little bit about us and you and yours and how you got in but is it true that you came from like a destined for a corporate life and then just made 180 degree turn?

Drew Schaefering 2:30
Yeah, you know, I I growing up I was always fascinated with money and I I wanted to be the person that could basically have freedom and make all the money and probably over glamorize the romanticize kind of the good parts of that side of a lifestyle and I went to college and during high school, I actually started cutting my own hair and I went to a private Boys School, men school young men school and it basically I’m sure you remember the styles everyone looked like Sonic the Hedgehog animate characters. It was just it was easy to cut to cut my own hair and make it look as the perfect amount of messed up. And I kind of kept doing that through college, I got a business degree working double minor in finance and marketing and came out of school and I kind of was left with these two, these two options on the table. All of my good friends and family were sitting here telling me dude, you have this creative side of you. You don’t look like a buttoned up tie Wall Street kind of guy, although that’s kind of what I what I romanticized with. And it actually came down to I was really struggling with this decision. And my dad worked from home it at the time still does. But I went to his office, and he’s like, so are you going to take that finance job? And I actually told him Yeah, I was like, you know, it’s It took me an extra year to graduate from transferring playing soccer. And thankfully, school was taken care of through that. But I felt like I was a year behind already. And he just like kind of has this like moment of movie. He took his glasses off and he looks up and he says don’t don’t take that job. And I was shocked because what father of a you know, 22 year old kid get out of school is going to tell him to go back into hair School of all things. I kind of looked at him and he’s like you, you’ve got something else about you that I’ve seen since you were young. That job will always be there. You’ve got the degree, go try her school, give it a full go. You know, you will never you’re never going to leave that job to go pursue hair if you if you get into it. So how can money so I reached out to some family friends. I have a very dear mentor of mine in St. Louis, and they kind of put me on the path and I really haven’t looked back since.

Chris Baran 4:42
It’s really that drew I find that so remarkable. And you know, I haven’t met your dad, but I already love them. Because, you know, I’m a part of a group that we have like 30 beauty schools as well and there’s tons of beauty schools out throughout The the US and so on and, and everything that we always hear is when somebody says, I want to go, I want to become a hairdresser, Esthetician nail art, do something creative. The first thing that you always hear is no, you got to go to college. No, you got to do this. Now, understandably, you did that, but I have a funny feeling that your, your dad would have pushed you into just being new no matter what he did. So for those of you watching, I’m taking off my metaphoric hat and tipping it to him right now. But tell me what your what was that? Like, what was your relationship with your dad?

Drew Schaefering 5:36
You know, my, my dad is one of the most sensitive, sweet loving parents, I’m very, very blessed and fortunate. You know, he was our he was our coach for all of our sports, and really just had full support of his and any anything we wanted to do, he and he and my mother sacrifice, sacrificed and continue to do what they can, everything for us to play sports. And up until the day I graduated college, playing soccer and playing other sports was was my life. It was kind of my and my identity. So he, I was not surprised to have his support with that. And, you know, it warms my heart to see everyone else’s response and reaction to that story. Because it’s it’s such an outlier, I think to what a norm would be. And if I would have told them after school Dad, I want to go train to be a bowl writer or join the circus, he would have been like, Well, should go be the best one you can be, you know, yeah,

Chris Baran 6:33
yeah. You know, it’s, I mean, that’s, I think, God, he said that, and because that’s what I’ve told my kids their whole life is that is just just do whatever you want to do, because you can just be the best at it, and you can be happy. And that’s what I kind of picked up on. That I don’t always hear. I think that there’s this thing that that parents equate money to happiness, and you’ve got to get on a trajectory, that doctors, lawyers, whatever that might be, so that you’re creating money, therefore providing happiness. And especially because we’ve got so many people in our industry that are of that creative ilk, that they’ve got to be doing something that they feel creative in that that would just destroy them. If they had to do something that and don’t get me wrong, I’m not taking anything away from doctors, lawyers, etc. That that there’s definitely the creative side of that as well. However, there’s a really people, people are destined to become great at something. And the fact that your dad saw that in you, I think was is remarkable. I want you said something else that that I find is interesting when I went to interview some of the people and talk to people about this is that you mentioned sports. Now give them give us a little bit more about what was that like in your growing up? And and what did that lead to?

Drew Schaefering 7:57
So I you know, I think my brothers and I have an older brother and younger brother all three years apart, and we all were very middle and totally mid middle child. Guilty, guilty as charged. And, you know, we all were very gifted in sports and talented, but it kind of in our own area. And I think one of the things that I adopted, and it was it was through different phases of my youth was work ethic. And that got me a lot farther than just my talents. He coached most of our sports and with the exception of ice hockey and lacrosse and Taekwondo, we’ve coached our baseball and coach soccer and was always the we rallied around him, there came a time to kind of cut the umbilical cord a little bit and my dad was the coach that he would not tell the kid Hey, you’re not good enough to play in our team, he would find ways to make it work. But the result of that was we were not champions of every tournament. And that started become frustrating for me. You know, I was the captain and the best player on most of these teams and he sat me down one day, he’s like, it’s time for you to level up and you’re getting ready to go into college or to high school. You need to surround yourself with players that are going to elevate you more in that transition was really tough for me, but in like way out. I the only person that had ever demanded more from me and my absolute best was myself. You know, my dad would suggest he but he would kind of like support and embrace with a gentle but firm love. I went on a team and had a guy screaming every expletive at me and telling me to get better because I was no longer the best person on the team. I literally went from B or C leagues up to the double A and kind of that term. And it really it took everything I had and that transition the two or three Your transition into my senior junior year of high school, I really became 10 times better. And it was, you know, I, I think my therapist and I have had a lot of different conversations about that demanding more from yourself mentality but what it what it really did in me is it took the the support and the confidence I had as a younger athlete or younger man, and elevated it, but then crushed it and made me rebuild it on my own back versus from my, from my father.

Chris Baran 10:35
What was it? I mean, we come from an industry that the very touchy feely and and I even one of my business partners, who is a Harvard grad said that his first experience with hairdressers was first of all, going to an event and they were hugging him and then having a hairdresser look at him and said, Hey, I could trim your eyebrows if you want. And so but we’re a very connected group. And and, and I think you found in being a L’Oreal Professionnel educator, and that often we have to it, you can’t go yelling and screaming at people. Because you know, they’ll just tell you to, you know, whatever the words that you would say to you, and then it would just leave. So we have to be a bit more. I’m not saying delicate, but we have to better be a different coach or leader in order to get them to improve. And I’m sure you’d agree with that. What was that like for you when you came from an environment where your dad would give you suggestions? And then you went and I from if I’ve got right there was this soccer this was your big and soccer was that? Is that correct? Soccer

Drew Schaefering 11:44
was soccer was my mind main love. Yes. Yeah. And

Chris Baran 11:47
football in every other country in the world. But soccer here. Yes. The, what was that? Like for you? What, like did that? Did that harden you? Did it help you? Did it discourage you? What was that, like when you’ve got a coach constantly yelling at you.

Drew Schaefering 12:07
I mean, I think at first it just totally paralyzed and broke me down. Because I hadn’t had it before. I didn’t know how to deal with it. And you know, up until that point, it was really, you know, your whole life, you’re told that you’re great, excellent. And everyone kind of adores you. And then all of a sudden, you’re the bottom of the barrel. And so it was really tough for me emotionally and, and I hadn’t really encountered that. In my personal life. Internal family, but also external personal life. And but what it what it did is by the time I got to college, nothing could break me. There, it was almost like the harder you yelled at me or the throw nastier things you said at me discouraging me, I had already told myself those things to get through up until that point in that transition period. So it was the negative self talk that pushes you think you can’t do this. Oh, watch me, you kind of build that. And you know, I think that it’s two faced, you know that that type of internal dialogue can you know, what is it we have 60 to 80,000 thoughts a day and 80% of them are negative. So I don’t I don’t know if it’s not enough. It’s a good thing all the time. But I learned to use that as fuel to prove people wrong.

Chris Baran 13:24
Yeah. Do you still have that there’s still come up like negative thoughts. Sometimes. Yeah. Human if it doesn’t happen, you know,

Drew Schaefering 13:35
it’s it’s a challenge. And I think especially as I’ve created that habit to use that as fuel. I don’t think of a blue elephant anymore. So, yeah, it’s subconsciously, I think it still resonates a lot.

Chris Baran 13:55
Yeah. And it’s interesting, and I think it’s really important that people listening and watching right now, kind of get that that it’s okay. I can remember having a conversation with someone and it was a leader in our industry. And and they talked about how and I want to throw this out to you for maybe I’ll throw this as your question first as now okay, that that that soccer element that rising playing on the double A teams and, and having people yell at you to get better, and obviously there’s method and their madness, they want to push you hard. That’s what happens at really elite training. Did you ever find that, that when there’s there’s sometimes I think, an element of jealousy, that that infiltrates our industry, you know, they see DREW Come on, came on board and all of a sudden he’s he’s, he’s playing at the top. And do you ever find that that people are, are either jealous or are sometimes that comes into it. Does that that replay into what you see?

Drew Schaefering 15:05
Yeah, I think it doesn’t a lot of ways. And one of the best ways that I kind of try to remind myself of is people are never gonna hate from the top. Right? So it’s all, you know, haters are gonna be there. And I think that if if you have haters, unless you’re doing something is that that’s outlining the really wrong or going against something that people stand for, you know, that shows that you have their attention, and that they want what you want. I think it also, yeah, I mean, there. I was very fortunate in my transition with hairdressing, I got involved with L’Oreal professionnel really early, and six months out of school, I’d become an artist on the fast track to an elevated artist, and I didn’t really know what I was doing. It was all innate, and I was green, but I had the support of this brand and all these people. And next thing, you know, there’s this young kid that I was so motivated taking all of that work ethic I had had from sports, focusing everything and had such an intense desire to really do well. And I’m sure that there was plenty of people and I’ve heard it from many people, you know, saying Who the hell is this kid? He’s Yeah, he’s kind of he’s got the the right look for the brand and the this and that. But I just had to say, Hey, I somehow found myself in this opportunity, and the doors open. If you’re gonna tell me that you wouldn’t take the opportunity. If you were me, like, You’re full of shit, this is I’m doing what I’m doing. And if you haven’t found your way to get here, then try a different door, do something different. But don’t hate don’t hate on me.

Chris Baran 16:43
Yeah, yeah, nothing went as you and that’s one thing, I want to get that help to the young kids that are listening or watching or whatever it is just to, don’t let those people drag you down. Because I loved what you said, you said hate never comes from the top, it’s always bottom up because of the jealousy or that they they won’t try and you did or whatever. You know, and I think that what I heard you say is, is that it’s the level that you play at. And I know one of my teachers have talked about the four levels that we play at. And if you think about implied to sports, and you apply it to what we do, there’s four levels, you you’re you participate, you’re an amateur, then you play kind of on an international level. And then in the elite level, the participates, like when you’re in school, and everybody played and everybody got a participation award, the amateur was where you started to compete, you know, and you had some competitions, you might get the blue ribbon or whatever. But if the international level, or when the next level up, or whatever you want to label that. One is that you’re actually going to compete, and you’re doing whatever it takes to compete. But the elite level that you’re going to play at, is when you’re not playing to compete, your complaint, you’re competing to win, and you’re going to practice harder, you’re going to practice when you’re tired, you’re going to practice longer than you would ever and practice harder than you would ever have to do in that single environment. That’s one thing I I think that elite coaches playing to elite athletes, performers, artists, will make you practice harder in the practice than you’ll ever have to have to practice in real life. And kind of that’s what I you know, some people can do it by yelling and screaming at you. Some people can do it with you know, more of a velvet glove. And so you want to do it and you push yourself through it, but I, I think you were one of those. I’m not gonna say lucky. But one of those people who the universe force focused you into that group, and you’ve got something you’ve got a higher level of understanding of that, that some of us, me included. You know, my I can remember when I was a really topstar in sports. Oh, no, that wasn’t me. I start I started school when I was four, and I was always the smallest kid. I was always the most insecure kid because everybody in school is one or two years older than me. And it wasn’t until I got out and actually in hair that I got around people that I actually didn’t think I was stupid. You know, it was interesting. I always thought because of my grades in school I was thought I was stupid. But it wasn’t until then that I and I’ve told this a couple of times and other ones we have but I only say it because it’s true. It’s when you get a teacher that will play to your needs that will help you to feel feel like you’re you’ve got worth and your your intelligent or smart Are you you know you can grow you know you push yourself further. So I take my hat off to all of the teachers that are out there that do that so that so you do you really field that, that and my long tirade was that that really helped you like what was the biggest takeaway that you got from your professional or your semi professional sports? That took you into the hairdressing what, what what still stays with you the most.

Drew Schaefering 20:20
I think you know, I’m going to lean back on something that you said that I really liked is it’s you know, you practice the way you want to perform, and it kind of goes back to practice doesn’t make perfect it makes permanent and how you do anything is how you do everything. And I had my high school coach who is one of the most he’s the winningest soccer high school coach in the country and is going to hold that record for a long time, I believe was one of the worst coaches I could have ever had for me, because I was not I was not mature enough mentally. And I was not confident enough to to basically handle the the head games and the way he manipulated and maneuvered. You know, he is I has all my respect for what he does. I think he belongs practicing a much higher level, but he’s had wild success. Yeah, yes, forward to might, you know, my club coach, which for those of you listening are not familiar with club sports versus high school, I was playing soccer a year round at one time during high school for the school team. And then the rest of the time of the year for club. And my club coach was the one that kind of had this balance of that tough, that tough love and that support. And the biggest thing that my biggest takeaway was that I could get it done. But I didn’t have to that somewhere, whatever he started saying to me, and the support mixed with that tough love started instilling something in me, that was like a fire that I allowed to burn. That gave me confidence and gave me that kind of shit, I could do this, that whatever it is, I can get through it. And by the time I was in college, leading my teams, and having the success I had, I was the ringleader carrying the shield, you know, full of vigor and energy and was if you if someone was slacking off in practice, I remember being a freshman, my first year, I was yelling at one of the seniors on the team, because he was just goofing around. And I was like, Yo, you know, we’re here, we’re here to play. We’re not here to mess around play. And so it’s just this, this wild confidence, and sometimes it’s, you know, probably idealistic and delusional, at times, but it’s just that it’s just a confidence. And, you know, I think that, I say that, while probably not being the most self confident person, but I have this experience of overcoming these obstacles and becoming this stronger, better, more, just more competitive version of myself, that I didn’t have before. And that translates to anything that I do in life. So I think everything that I do goes back to self discipline, and just being like, okay, look in the mirror. Okay, what did you do before this, you can kind of you can keep going, keep, keep doing whatever you want to do?

Chris Baran 23:33
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s, I’m gonna put it back on your dad that probably helped you with that confidence issue, because I think that’s something you have to you have to get a certain way along the line from someone that gives you the confidence to move forward. Now, you know, to me, confidence doesn’t mean that you’re the smartest confidence doesn’t mean that you’re the best, but it means that you have that self belief that you can move, move the needle forward. And I think that’s the biggest thing that I see from people is that it’s the quip is you’ve either got confidence or you’ve got to quit and you and it’s, it’s way easier to quit. And so for people listening and listening and watching right now, just always think about that, because I’m gonna ask you the question, because I have it all the time I get. Pardon my language. For those of you who don’t like cussing, I’m gonna say a word here if you want to put it on mute or whatever, but I’ll look at something like what the fuck are you doing? You know, is it why why do you continue doing this if you don’t feel good about it? But you know, everybody has those moments and every it’s the difference between emotions hitting you, and obsession hitting you. And I was talking about that earlier with a person in our industry said something to me, at one time that there’s a difference between emotion and being obsessive. Emotions are normal. You’re always going to go through that you’re going to always feel like what the hell? Why am I doing this? But it’s, it’s it’s the confidence just to get past that and not let the quit take you out of the game. And I think that’s that was, that was a really big one for me. And I think when I, when I hear people say, you know, like when you said, I’m, I’m this young rookie on the team, and yet I’m dressing down one of the seniors. And some people might see that as cocky. And other people will say, Look, I know my position. I know, my position on the team. And leaders are leaders, I think are are made and grown from the ground up. And if you got that position, you’re willing, Michael Jordan did that all the time, right from the first time that he was on on the basketball teams, he was dressing down people that if they weren’t playing, right, and I think that’s the way you get a championship team, so good on you.

Drew Schaefering 25:53
Thank you. I mean, it’s, you know, something that you said is, you know, just the way the difference between emotion and obsession, and I think that it’s, it’s easy to become obsessed in the moment. And it’s hard to control that obsession when your emotions start to get in the way. And I don’t think there’s any, any person successful or even, you know, having mediocre success. That still doesn’t struggle with that emotional side. It’s just you have to allow something to overcome it. Yeah.

Chris Baran 26:23
Well, when you and when you obsess on something, like, you know, is when if I’ll give you the example, if I get mad, and that mad happens today, and it lasts 20 minutes, or it’s really, I’m really P owed about something. And that means tomorrow, I’m still mad about it. That’s okay, because that’s just the length of time. But if I’m still mad about that, six weeks from now, that’s obsessive, that that’s an obsession that that’s that’s sickening. I mean, I don’t mean from that. I’m that person. I’m sick of that person. I mean, it’s just it can it can destroy you. That’s that’s an illness. So I’m going to my psychobabble, I think is gone. Now I want to talk about you and how you went from. What was it like with that? You went into school, young kid plucked out of school thrown into education? What was it like at the beginning? What was the Tell me a little bit about your first educational experience? Everyone Drew? Hey, you’re an educator out there.

Drew Schaefering 27:26
Yeah. I didn’t, I had no idea what I was signing up for honestly. I mean, I went to school, I went to one of The Salon Professional Academies in St. Charles, Missouri, outside of St. Louis, and get involved with L’Oreal. And you know, I’m always relating things to being an athlete. And I get asked to try out for L’Oreal professionnel and I think they’re just going to be a sponsor of mine. I’m thinking like, oh, cool, you’re gonna send me stuff. I’m gonna be on like a magazine. I had no idea. And then I go in, I think I teach some regional product class some more of the things that you stood start to do to get your feet wet and PK class.

Chris Baran 28:08
PK. Oh, Product knowledge classes.

Drew Schaefering 28:11
I just it I can’t I can’t believe that it was anything other than, you know, a fumble, and it was probably memorable for them in the in the worst sense. I certainly think it’s probably traumatizing for me. Because I, I did not know how to communicate, I did not know how you know how to be be confident and stand in front of people. Because I wasn’t even confident in myself yet. As you know, I think always growing to be a more confident person. But at that time of my life, you put me on the soccer field, I was great here. I’m like, Whoa, I’m in an industry full of people who’ve been doing this light years ahead of me. And all of a sudden I’m put here and I just remember being absolutely terrified. And I think it really made me question Is this is this for me? Is this what I want to do? And, you know, thankfully, I had had good support, and had some mentors that kind of said, hey, look, this is normal. You’re gonna get there we see it. So I fumbled through a handful of them. But I think the most terrifying one was a an artistic Summit, L’Oreal Professionnel had up in Las Vegas. And it was when I joined the kind of the elite team. And I just remember looking around at all of the people and the names I’d seen, you know, at the shows on the billboards, and on this and I’m like, What the eff am I doing here? Like I am, I’m the black sheep of all the golden geese here and but somehow, somehow it worked out and I kind of just stuck through it. And I had a lot of people saying very complimentary things that helped me get over any issues just saying, hey, like, you know, yeah, you’re young. Just stick with it. And so I think that, at that moment, had those people been yelling at me that way my previous soccer coaches would have, I probably would have ducked out the back door and did an Irish goodbye. But thankfully, it didn’t happen.

Chris Baran 30:05
You know, I remember my, this is the first one when I went, oh my OMG being on stage or doing the show or a classroom is way different than the salon. Because I remember in the salon we you know, you do hands on with your with your apprentices, etc. And I remember going I believe I was in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and and they said, Okay, we want you to stay over another day, I went, Oh, yes, more money. And, and they said we want you to do, you’re gonna do a hands on class and there was my classroom. And then like you said, all the other big names had their classrooms. And I remember we had, I don’t remember what it was, I think it was like, three, a three hour class, you do have to do a hands on meaning. You know, here’s the hair cut. By the end, you’ve got to show them and they’ve got to finish it. And I went kind of on the path that way, I would have done it to an apprentice in the salon. And I remember they caught they came and said time, everybody’s out time for break time to switch classrooms. And I watched all my people pick up their mannequin that had maybe if they’re lucky, half of it done. And the other side was still long, and I walked out, everybody else is walking out with their men and all the way complete, etc. And I went, Yeah, I need to I need to learn how to be able to teach and communicate and get the stuff out in an organized way. But that was just it’s sometimes the failures that you had there make you stronger. Even though that night, I wanted to go back to the hotel room and curl up in my fetal position with my thumb and my mouth and my wahbi wrapped around my body. But that makes a I’m with you. But now we know the level that you teach at now. And but the other part and where I take my hat off to because it it’s really different than most of what we do on stage and at seminars, etc. And I want to jump into your career that you had as an editorial artist. So I think most people listening watching right now will they know what what Naha is they know what hair competitions are? But can you help us to understand what’s the difference? Or in your mind? What’s the difference between somebody doing a photo shoot for a competition and a photo shoot in an editorial setting?

Drew Schaefering 32:18
Yeah, that’s a good question. And I think the best way to to kind of separate these things, and I had a friend of mine, who I’ve worked with closely for years, explained it to me like this, that makes sense. It’s kind of like different tribes. And the hairdressing community, and if we think of like a hairdresser, who works in the salon. Also, there are hairdressers who do NAHA that also worked in the salon. And so there’s not always crossover. And you don’t always get to play in the same sandboxes. And when you’re when you’re going for an editorial focus there are, there’s so many other components that come into play that the hair is not always the focus, you are creating a story that is usually used to either romanticize and fantasize and create something that’s a different kind of ethos, not of the everyday life. But it’s different from na in the sense that there’s a different type of cohesion. The hair that I see, because I yet to participate in an AHA events, but I’ve seen countless images is there’s so much more of a hair focus. And a lot of it is based on technique and kind of what is the craziest yet still beautiful thing we can do with hair and create an image of that. And when it comes to call it more fashion focused, whether it’s commercial editorial, any of that, it’s sometimes it’s the simplest thing that you can do with the hair. But it’s the exact right thing at that moment makes the most beautiful image for that. And I think for me, that is the biggest difference between the two, because I’ve seen some of the most wildly talented techniques on either side. And if you talk about like, taste, not that one is better, they’re just all different. Sometimes it takes a certain recognition of the taste that is needed to complete this image for this story, and the makeup is more of the focus. And so I think that it’s just a different beast, and it might not. I hope that makes some some type of sense because for me, it’s a little challenging to decipher, but I think hair focused versus project and group focused is a big Yeah.

Chris Baran 34:47
And this might be just telling me this is a stupid question if it is, but I just formed like because I’ve been on that background too. And I mean, you do it way better. I choose not to do that side, simply because has it’s a you have to have a really strong skin, when you’re when you’re out there as an editorial stylist as well. But can you take us just a little bit deeper, so that the average person that doesn’t do either one would understand if he said that I want a ponytail in the hair for the shoot, because I don’t want, I want the hair to be the star but not the star. I want a ponytail, but I don’t want it to be a ponytail. And you know, there’s all these little nuances of the way that an editorial stylists can really make that photograph based on how they can think of something that isn’t just a ponytail. So I don’t know if that was its fair question or not.

Drew Schaefering 35:45
But so I think, you know, if we take what is a ponytail, great. It’s something where the hair is pulled back? Well, what does the texture of the hair have? What you know, is it wet or dry? Is it fuzzy? Is there a product? Is there a part? Is it pulled tight back? Is it loose? Are there any little face frame? Where? Where is the accent on the clothing? What’s the models features that are strongest? Is that a high ponytail? Is it really, really low? So it’s almost invisible? You know, all of these little things? Does the model even have enough hair for a ponytail? Do we need to create that too, we need to basically make hair disappear so that the ponytail is skinnier. And so it’s kind of like asking someone to make their version of a hamburger or cheeseburger? Like what are all of the elements that you’re putting together to make that the best version of that. And sometimes it’s, you know, all of those things. And then I think a challenge is also as we’re hairstylist and we I think we all have, you know, everyone has an ego, but I think a lot of us have a bit of an ego in a way to kind of I want to make mine. What is it that someone’s gonna look at that and say, that is Chris Behrens ponytail, like no, yeah. And if we look at one of one of the most impactful hairdressers of certainly my time is Guido, you can tell when Guido does hair. And it’s everything he does is just remarkable. And it always is on point. So if you’re listening to this, and you know, this is a new conversation for you, Guido is one of one of you know, certainly my top hairstylist in that area at the moment still, he’s pretty remarkable at doing those little nuances.

Chris Baran 37:30
You know, you know, when, when the when the Met Gala, or when I’m sorry, the museums have His work of the hair in, in the museum, you know, and that’s featured not the clothing, then you know that it’s the you know, you’ve made it this episode is sponsored by the salon associate accelerator from trainers playbook.com. Are you struggling with the time and cost of associate training? Do you feel like your salon is running you will get your associates on the floor, all with 90% Less time from you. So you can get back to building your business. Get them world class design, finishing color, and client care skills they’ll use every day for the rest of their career. While you focus on realizing your vision, go to trainers playbook.com and get the salon associate accelerator. And now back to the show. The what’s it like? And I’ve talked about the thin skin you have to have as an editorial stylist. What is it like when you when you go in there, because here’s the way that was kind of put to me when you’re doing a shoot for nah Ha, a photograph for your salon, a photograph for your portfolio, something that you want to show off your hair. You’re the you’re the creative director. And I remember I remember, as I remember very well at all those s words that I have a hard time with. But I remember that we were at a shoot. And I remember one of the artists that were with, they told that person to change the hair. And this person was just throwing, throwing a hissy fit that no I won’t do that because that’s not my work, etc. And I remember that sort of leading the team, I had to pull that person aside and say, Listen, when you do your stuff, normally you have that advantage because you’re the creative director and you can say no, that’s not my style. No, I won’t do that. No, whatever. But you’re not the creative director here. You’re the you’re the stylist and you’re the there’s a kind of thing stylist usually on terms means your wardrobe. But I mean, you’re the hairstylist, and if they want something different, you better damn well get out there and do something different and you’re never you’re not gonna get hired by them again. So what what’s it like? And you’re in that all the time What’s it like? For you? When that happens? What do you do? What do you feel like inside? It’s so long?

Drew Schaefering 40:09
I think what it’s like for me now is is wildly different from what it was. I think before it used to bring up. Oh, my work is not good enough. Oh, they don’t like me anymore. Oh, how do I save face. And what I’ve really learned is, hey, this is a, this is a group, this is a team, and we are part of a team to get the right. Objective done. So then it becomes a question of, okay, cool, we want a different ponytail. What do we not like? How do we go this direction, and the more you include the team that also has a sounding voice on it, you’re gonna get input and dots to connect so that it’s not only on you. So it is a it is a definitely a challenge. You know, I think anytime someone says something’s not right, as an artist, it makes us feel inferior, or a lack or a void there, when in reality, it’s just how do we find different creative solution? And how do I be the the hands that the group can make a decision on it, because it’s the most successful shoots that I’ve been a part of whether it was assisting or on the lead? It is a group discussion, and whether it’s just you and the makeup artist at the at the hair and makeup, you know, area be like, Hey, how do we feel? Yeah, or no. And I think there’s also something that’s different for editorial and fashion, outside of, you know, salon work for for photo shoots, or navajas, you kind of have a vision board. And that vision board gives you a texture and little details to focus on. So kind of when in doubt, you just kind of go back to that vision board. And that’s usually put together by the photographer and the stylist or any creative direction. And if you kind of lean into that, and then just speak to everybody and have that kind of teammate team mentality, that really is helpful, because it takes the pressure off of yourself.

Chris Baran 42:11
Yeah, and what I love about when I look at editorial work, the hair generally looks not like the I’m being if I say it looks like they did it themselves in a very fashionable way. But that is such a talent in and of itself. You know, especially if you’re a hairdresser wanting perfection in your work, and then you’ve got to make look some something look fashionable, beautiful, sexy, and, and make it look like there was no work that went into it. And it takes 10 times more work to do that than it does to make it look perfect. So that’s where I went, I went, you know, that I’m gonna leave this to other people, because you do that way better than I that I can. So I take my hat off to you in that regard. And maybe I’m a little more thin skinned and a little more insecure than you are. But well,

Drew Schaefering 43:10
I think you know, one of the things that hairdressing teaches by nature, systems consistency, reproducibility. And that is one of the things that I find in the editorial professional world is very positive. And it’s also challenging. Because if you do the, let’s say, you’re curling hair, and we are taught behind the chair, curl the hair this direction away from the face, and it starts to become consistent, but kind of uniform. You don’t you lose nuances. And a lot of times that the biggest difference between something looking more editorial versus more uniform for maybe a more perfect sense, is the little nuances of breaking those systems of right, I’m going to do this because it’s then going to look perfect. And so I think there has to be a playfulness with being creative with it that relies on the experience or the knowledge of what it’s going to do. Yeah.

Chris Baran 44:14
Yeah. So would you say, how would you say that you are as a person? When you get into photography or anytime that you’re doing a project? Are you more you find that you’re more in your head? And here’s what I conceptualize myself and then put it out? Are you are you a collaborator?

Drew Schaefering 44:36
I think a lot of it depends on who I’m working with. You know, if it’s a group of if it’s a team of photographer stylist that I’ve worked with several times, we have a great rapport. It is very collaborative, but I feel like the first few times I work with somebody, it’s it’s kind of like a first date and you want to show up and you want to be able to prove that you’re worthy of being there in a sense, and that can, that can sometimes come around to bite you, because maybe you might overdo it. And that it’s really, you know, I think that there’s no consistency to it. I’m an over prepper. Most of the time, I will show up with, you know, three suitcases full of stuff and extra wigs and pieces. And I’ve also found that sometimes that over prepping has taken me so far off course, from what we that, then I’m trying to show all of this stuff I prepped. And so I think it’s, you know, it comes back to just now, I show up with feeling confident and what I’ve prepared mentally, physically, but also very open. And I really try to leave my ego at the door and just say, hey, like, I’m here for a reason. And I’m a part of this team. So how can I be the best for this position? Doesn’t matter about me showing off myself? Yeah,

Chris Baran 46:05
I laughed when you said I went over, over prepare, I raised my hand and went, Hi, my name is Chris. And I’m an over prepare, in which everybody would say Hi, Chris. But I know what’s happening. My My son is actually a meta mode proper, the word producer, director, whatever, of these podcasts, but I know he’s sitting there laughing. This took us off here because he knows that’s exactly what I am. I’ll try to spend 20 hours and then only, like even, I’ve got like about 40 questions here to ask, and I’m not going to get to half of them. But that’s just that over prepare. So

Drew Schaefering 46:39
do you ever find like that? Do you find that that helps you as much as you know anything? Or do you ever find that that actually can kind of be almost overkill and take away from something else that could be less prepped? Yeah,

Chris Baran 46:51
no, I, you know, it’s funny when sometimes when I over prepare it, something doesn’t turn out as well, if I just have to do it just on the spur of the moment. And but it’s a fault of mine, you know, maybe call it insecurity, call it whatever that might be. But I just feel that I’ve got a I’ve got to get it right, I would sooner have to have 50 Legos to make that I have to do 10 Make something out of with 10 then not have the right thing there. And that’s just that I don’t know where that came from. I don’t know, whatever kind of psychosis, psychosis I have. I don’t know what kind of therapy I need for that. But I my team is constantly trying to get me just get it to just get it to 80% otherwise, we’re never gonna get this damn thing done. You know, so I wanted to because, you know, there’s I see hairstylist as hairstylists. And I see others as I see as true artists. And, and I don’t mean that as any way of saying that somebody is not but I I’ve always viewed you as that kind of artists. I’ve watched you work. I watched you play. I try to read your mind when I’m watching you work. And but I really truly, truly see the artistic side coming out of that. And I was watching TV this morning, and there was a rapper that was on and they were doing sort of indicative Docu series on it. And it was Tarik Trotter, he was the one of the co founders of the roots. And they call him I think they called him the greatest rap the greatest rappers greatest rapper. Or no the favorite, the greatest rappers favorite rapper and but when in when he when they were talking to him, he said that there was this thing of this angst that happened in his early life and then how that kind of pushed him forward. But it also made him in order he had to reach out to something to more or less save him and that was art. And so he you know art when he put it down with art is what saved him from himself and got him to be where he is do you what do you you feel that that’s like with artists in general or with say with you?

Drew Schaefering 49:07
Well, I mean, first off, thank you for the compliment that’s very high coming from you I think that art is a form of expression and I once heard a friend say that something that is truly art is a result of something that could not be told in any other way write something so unique and say that again. Yeah, it’s something that is truly art could not be communicated told or shown in any other way. So if you think of you know, the right painting, or the right song, like if you were to try to change it and tell it in a different setting or medium it just would not be the same. And that’s always kind of stuck with me and I think that you know Rick Rubin I don’t Speaking of musicians, are you familiar with him, Rick Rubin is

Chris Baran 50:03
refresh me.

Drew Schaefering 50:04
So he’s worked with everybody from Johnny Cash, Lady Gaga, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Eminem, one of the most prolific music producers. And he wrote a book and came up with it earlier this year, it’s called the creative act, the artists way, or creative act in artists way, I don’t remember the title, one of the most profound books I’ve ever read. And it is basically just all of these different excerpts of how artists creatively have output. And it is often just like, Go, what we’re going through, and all of these different things happening in being creative is something as simple as taking a different route home because of traffic, or it could be writing, you know, the most beautiful song. And I think that at any stage, and from my experience, my favorite hair slash art, or anything I’ve ever done has come from a very intense emotion. And I think that, you know, that’s kind of we talked about the tortured artist, there’s so so much to lean on and do. But the challenge comes when you’re doing hair, how, you know, how much of that can you really put out. So that enter chat, the discipline and the work ethic and all these different things. So I think for me, it’s I think art definitely has hair opened up me to being creative. I was always creative, but I found in hair, I found how to be creative for myself. And I, I find that as the deeper I get into hair, the more I’m using other forms of inspiration or other ideas that actually have very little relevance, but somehow in me, I put it in my own personal blender, and something allows me to kind of create more from that. That’s a very long winded answer that I don’t know.

Chris Baran 52:19
Right answer. You know, just but just to push you just a little bit further on that. In the art side, let’s say, if hair couldn’t be your medium for art and expression right now. What would where would you go with it? What would you do? What medium? Would you you take that creativity to?

Drew Schaefering 52:44
Given the skills I have? And if I had to do it tomorrow, I’d paint.

Chris Baran 52:49
Oh, nice.

Drew Schaefering 52:54
I also be interested in doing I have an interest in fashion, but the commercialization of stuff kind of takes away from from that from me. For me, it’s something you know, I think a lot of us have, we want to do something with our hands. It’s that tact feel. I do love the relationship service based relationship side of what we do. But there’s something about just painting and yeah, it’s, it’s a form of expression that there’s no limits, or no bounds to it. I also don’t know if I make enough money to live in New York a lot. That would be a different conversation. But

Chris Baran 53:35
yeah, it’s interesting because I find that I don’t know about you, I’m this is just totally off topic here. But like, I find that as an artist is what what takes my mind and helps me to escape. Like, what do I do? Like when you know, like, I love the avant garde, so when I’m, I can sit in that’s part of what my hand is screwed up right now. But just I can braid for hours and hours and hours. While I’m trying to think of what am I going to do with these braids when I’ve got them done. And I love the intricacy of things. So I But to me, it’s therapy, I can I can just think and it’s almost like meditation, I can just sit and breathe and breathe and I my thoughts go in in 100 different ways. And but it’s all coming to me. And I am whereas I know other artists like my, I work a lot in creating stuff with yours and my good friend Ruth Roche. And Ruth will say, you know, I gotta it’s gotta be fast. I gotta get it done with and over with straightaway. So she Marvels when I can when I can spend hours doing something and I marvel with her because she’ll say no, screw that. And she goes read it and she just puts it into hand moves her magic hands and and it’s it’s done and beautiful. So yeah, I don’t know if that led anywhere or went anything with that but just something that you said sparked that in my brain.

Drew Schaefering 54:57
I love I love that I think think that anything that you enjoy doing, if you lose sense of time, that’s not a bad thing. It means that you’re in a state where you you know you’re not worried about how long it’s taking and you it’s up to me it says that you enjoy the process. Yeah, the process is the is the journey of it. Yeah.

Chris Baran 55:18
One day when I have more time on my hands, I’ve always wanted to sculpt and I’ve never done it I’ve never done it. I’ve never I don’t I only did one thing and it came up reasonably well and I just said, Wow, I love doing this. So we’ll see we’ll see as that goes on. But okay. big into sports, went into hairdressing, editorial stylist educator. What the hell do you do to whine down when you come home? What is it what when you when you’re done with all of that what’s it like for you when you get back to the house? The apartment

Drew Schaefering 55:57
I think there’s a handful of things you know, I definitely I struggle winding down you know, because I have the the creative elements and all of these things working I see clients in the salon that a creative director that and then I have accompany as well. And I so I think for me, I feel kind of like a shark. If I’m not moving I feel like I’m gonna die. We could there’s a lot of psycho analyst analysis we could dive into it that but I’m starting to learn how to become better at being calm. I’m starting to embrace reading again, I’m starting to embrace writing poetry again. Things that are not worked out in energy based. My my girlfriend’s would say that my love language is to be left alone. So I while that’s not necessarily true, it’s it’s more kind of just being at a peace with myself and not having to think and whether that’s watching a movie. I love cooking that to me, it’s the process. I love how

Chris Baran 57:02
we can be friends. Yeah, yeah.

Drew Schaefering 57:06
It’s so there’s you know that there’s a handful of things but I do operate better. I feel up very better when I’m have more things going on than not. I’m not

Chris Baran 57:17
trying to put words in your mouth with this one. But would you class you’re Phil, are you an introvert or an extrovert? Or normal vert? I don’t know what the middle is. So I just made up a word. Yeah,

Drew Schaefering 57:26
normal. It sounds pretty good. I like it. I would say that I’m an extroverted extroverted introvert introvert that I by nature, I It’s exhausting for me to be around a lot of people. I recharge in my own energy. But obviously, in our, in our industry, and just with the service based relationship based industry, you have to learn how to work with people. And that can be really tiring, but I do like, I like to be in quiet calm settings more than more than before. Yeah, it’s about yourself.

Chris Baran 58:05
I am a true introvert. I’ve just all the way through and through I am a I am a showcase extrovert. I’m had to learn I learned how to get out of my own way when I’m in front of an audience. And then I become an extrovert. I don’t think it’s an act, I think, but I have I’ve had to learn to get over my insecurities that I’m stepping on the stage. And I just there’s just a process that I go through this before I step on stage, just so I can, you know, I always know that if if I care about them, and I love them. And I know my shit I can get on stage. But so I’m always good. And I always love it when I get off stage or in a small group or whether it’s five or 10 people or 1000 I always generally almost always feel good when I get off stage. I know when I blew it. I know when I didn’t do it right and no one I did something wrong. I you know, people always let’s debrief and I went I know I sucked. So they just want to find out what I sucked at so I can improve but the reality is, is I know that I’m an introvert. I like being at home I like a small, like small gatherings. I like my family around few friends. When it gets beyond that, then, you know, that’s when I’ll kind of pull myself back a little bit and just listen. Yeah, you should get your own podcast here. You’re asking me more questions and I’m asking you Well, yeah,

Drew Schaefering 59:27
that’s great. makes for good conversation.

Chris Baran 59:29
Yeah, does. Listen at one thing you know, I always I remember and I don’t know if you ever had to do this. I’ve been involved with people in the and they said based on what your intention is for your life. And what you want to give out to the universe to the world to the people spiritually, you know, financially, emotionally, etcetera. They always did that exercise of what would you want your tombstone to say because I think the whole point was if you want it on your tombstone, Tombstone, you live it and you do it. What would you want your tombstone to say?

Drew Schaefering 1:00:10
I’ve actually never been asked that. And however, in as many or as few words something about unlabeled level, you can’t, can’t put a label on this individual as far as what, what they liked, how they impacted, what they gave back what they were able to achieve, like to put to put me in a box and categorize that, to me is I don’t like that. I like kind of this. How do I put it? Just the the fact that or the idea of, it’s hard to put a label on me. Yeah, I think that that that is that’s where my head goes. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:01:00
I you know, I don’t remember when I had to do that. I don’t remember what I wrote at the time wasn’t even true. But even as we’re doing it right now, I thought about it. I think, to me, I’m the Joker, I would always want to have something that was a little funny, but or maybe when people look and go, What the? And I think maybe right now I’m thinking I’d want on there I just put I want it to say gave a damn. You know? Yeah, just so you know, to me, I always think that’s what it what are we doing to help our industry to help to grow it to help to take away some of the stigma that they that we have, you know, and, and, to me, I use, Chris moody is a good in my business partner in one one venture, and I love the man to death, but he always just says, I want to elevate our industry so that when my friends that live in my area that our doctors and lawyers, they see me in the same light without me having to prove it to them. And to me, I think that’s what our that’s really what our industry is about here. That’s beautiful. Yeah. What, you know, is there been as you went through this is there, you know, and I would I want to make sure we talk about this and hear that because you also have become an entrepreneur, and you’ve got Cruxe Cru X ie your brand. So give us a little bit more about what what prompted you to get into that entrepreneurial side, as well as all the other things that you do.

Drew Schaefering 1:02:32
I think for me, it was the kind of detail of my, my finance side and my business degree kind of catching up with me in meeting at a point in my career where I saw an opportunity, I saw opportunity there, you know, when teaching the classes, you know, this people want to hear what you’re using what clips with homes with this, you know, people love to have been the know of that. And the idea of having something when my hands were working, and that making money and then having something else that would be something larger that would help me when my hands stopped moving, was very appealing to me. So I think the question started to become what does that look like? And so I started products by kind of solving some problems that I had tools, columns and clips that I couldn’t find I started finding a way to make produce those finding suppliers and and then really, it was like, okay, you know, then what does that look like? So up to date, you know, we’ve created a few things. And I probably for for good and bad reasons, have kind of really limited it because it to me, I don’t think that the world needs another company that makes and sells XY and Z. To me, there needed to be a purpose for it and a purpose that was greater than a new gimmicky thing. And I said gimmick with all due respect, but not like a one trick pony and have 30 of these things. So to me, it was a lot about the brand. And I think it also became a way for me to tell an emotional part of the story of a creative person really, kind of leaning into dark and light emotions and how they can be beautiful and kind of redefining what beauty can be and so it’s it’s it’s been a fun journey, I’ll be extremely challenging. That is definitely if I were to restart it and go do it over I would definitely find a counterpart to take care of the business because it is not easy thing to have all of those deals working and really excel at everything at the same time.

Chris Baran 1:04:51
Yeah, yeah, it’s tough. Well, I, I take my hat off to you because entrepreneurship is really an doing everything else that you’re doing is really tough. So I can certainly see how I think it’s wise to keep it tight keep it clean, keep your few products till you get them running then add one more then add one more then add one more so I wish you every bit of luck on that. So listen, I will come to this part right in here now where I we do rapid fire. Okay, so just gonna throw out questions to you first thing that comes to your mind ready? I feel like we should well it feels like we’ve got the championship chess team and we’re gonna throw this out and then click a button I don’t know what they are but what the hell here we go. Okay, good. What turns you on in the creative process?

Drew Schaefering 1:05:40
Isolation

Chris Baran 1:05:42
what stifles it

Drew Schaefering 1:05:45
my overthinking

Chris Baran 1:05:49
an event or show or thing that you did based on your artistry that you love the most first one that comes to your mind and others probably my

Drew Schaefering 1:05:57
most recent did a masterclass on stage in Greece for 2000 people. Wow.

Chris Baran 1:06:04
A thing in life that you dislike the most

Drew Schaefering 1:06:09
getting old.

Chris Baran 1:06:11
A thing that you love the most?

Drew Schaefering 1:06:15
Getting better as you get experience.

Chris Baran 1:06:17
Good, most difficult time in your life.

Drew Schaefering 1:06:23
moving to New York

Chris Baran 1:06:25
Wow. The thing that you dislike the most about our industry

Drew Schaefering 1:06:35
lack of proper education

Chris Baran 1:06:39
and things that you like the most about it?

Drew Schaefering 1:06:43
The newfound easy access to it to education

Chris Baran 1:06:46
wonderful. Proud of small moment of your life

Drew Schaefering 1:06:57
haven’t had it yet. Wow.

Chris Baran 1:06:59
Well, here it comes. I want you to phone me and tell me when it happens. All right. Eliminate a living person that you admire the most my father understandable. A person person living or dead that you wish you could meet

Drew Schaefering 1:07:22
Kobe Bryant

Chris Baran 1:07:26
something that people don’t know about you

Drew Schaefering 1:07:30
that I won a silver medal in the Junior Olympics with taekwondo.

Chris Baran 1:07:34
Wow. I did not know that and Okay, a month off. Where would you go? What would you do?

Drew Schaefering 1:07:45
I would go to a cabin in the woods either upstate here or somewhere isolated and paint and read and just disappear and go inwards.

Chris Baran 1:07:54
Nice. greatest fear

Drew Schaefering 1:08:03
wasted time and opportunity. Okay,

Chris Baran 1:08:06
favorite curse word?

Drew Schaefering 1:08:10
Fuckin fuck fuck.

Chris Baran 1:08:13
favorite comfort food.

Drew Schaefering 1:08:15
Oh. Chicken soup

Chris Baran 1:08:21
if you could change one thing about yourself what would it

Drew Schaefering 1:08:24
be? Fearless?

Chris Baran 1:08:29
Your most treasured possession personal or physical I should say Don’t say books because they see all of those behind you

Drew Schaefering 1:08:37
a jewelry given to me by my late grandparents.

Chris Baran 1:08:42
Oh wow. Something in the industry that you have not done but you want to

Drew Schaefering 1:08:57
do a beautiful campaign on some amazing tropical beach for like a week.

Chris Baran 1:09:02
There. Okay, we’ve manifested it it’s out there now. Yeah, if you had if you had one do over and I know that you know but he said I am who I am because of those but if you could do one thing over what would it be

Drew Schaefering 1:09:16
in life or inherit? Anything

I would have I would have gone and played professional soccer before getting into hair. Wow.

Chris Baran 1:09:33
Okay. Now this is different than what I asked you before about the art side of it. But tomorrow you couldn’t do hair. What would you do?

Drew Schaefering 1:09:48
I would put all my focus and energy into Crux and be creative with the business process of things that have

Chris Baran 1:09:59
okay, then Ha. If you could have one wish for industry, what would it be?

Drew Schaefering 1:10:09
I think for, for individuals to create instead of recreating, to have confidence in themselves enough to know their value, and for it to become a position that is respected among society, aside from just a bunch of partiers.

Chris Baran 1:10:37
Good idea. So, Drew, if, if people want to get a hold of you, how do they get a hold of you if they want to buy and see crux? Where do they go? Sure.

Drew Schaefering 1:10:51
So for crux, it is Krux brand.com. So that c r u x e, br a nd.com. Myself, all socials, it’s my first and last name, Drew chauffeuring. Obviously, I’m not so much on the tick tock game as of yet. So I put more out on Instagram, but basically any social platform, I’m there, and this is something I always say it every class, I teach every workshop and opportunity I have, I really have only been given opportunities by others. And it’s been through reaching out to people. So if there’s anything that you feel like connecting with me I can do to help. Feel free to please reach out, send a message, don’t please don’t be discouraged if I don’t get back to you right away. But even if it’s helping you relocate, or you’re having a problem with something, you know, there’s anything that I can do within reason to really continue to give back as I’ve been given, please don’t hesitate to reach out to me on any platform. Yeah,

Chris Baran 1:11:58
that’s awesome. Drew, you know, I think I’m finding is that all the this platform that I’m on right now affords me the liberty to have the conversations that both of us traveling in different directions could never have. So I just want to thank the universe for allowing that to happen because, you know, I always knew you were a great chap, friend, et cetera. I can’t believe I use the word chap. It did sound kind of cool. It made it sound very Continental, didn’t it? But I just I think that it’s blessed me with being able to have these conversations with people like yourself so drew i for being on head cases. I just want to say thank you know,

Drew Schaefering 1:12:42
Chris, it’s an honor I really appreciate it and I love that you’re doing this because there’s very few people that I know that are as well connected and well liked as you in our industry so proud of and for you and happy that you’re doing it because I can’t wait to listen to all these. Mutual Take care. Thanks, Chris.