ep61- Stephen Moody

This week’s guest is a NAHA Haircutter of the Year winner, spent 31 years with the Sassoon organization, and is currently John Paul Mitchell’s artistic director: Stephen Moody.

Join me as Stephen shares his hairdressing journey from a small English town to Intercoiffure Hair Cutting Icon and NAHA winner.

• Stephen shares his time at Sassoon’s in London
• One of the many nuggets of wisdom that Stephen talks about is “Don’t listen with your mouth, or your eyes. Really listen with your ears.”
• Stephens entered NAHA for the first time as Educator of the Year (finalist) and Hair Cutter of the Year (Winner). He outlines his process for that entry, and everything he did to prepare.
• Chris and Stephen discuss his most memorable hair show stories.
• “Failure is a bruise, not a tattoo”
• Everything comes back to dynamic consultations. This is Stephen’s outlook on Step One of success.
• Words of wisdom: Invest in yourself. Invest in continuing education. It will raise your game creatively and financially.

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:09
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes We love and admire and to ask them how did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years, and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success

You’re gonna love this week’s guest. This gentleman has been with the Sassoon organization for about 31 years where he launched and developed Sassoon’s academies in the US, Canada and Shanghai. He was well as Global Education Dean, and the education director for North America. This gentleman is educated in almost every country and on every continent. He is was awarded the cutting icon and the knight award for his contribution and hereby intercoiffure with NAHA he was educator educator year, the finalist and the hair cutter of the year. This week is none other than my good buddy, John Paul Mitchell’s artistic director, Mr. Stephen Moody. Now let’s get into this week’s headcase.

Stephen, I can’t tell you how excited that I am on here. And I have to say this that that it’s often you know, when a you’re looking at doing podcasts, etc. There’s always that little niggle in the back of your brain that goes well what if? What if I invite them? And they say no. Because, you know, I’ve got to meet you a few times in the past, but you know, still, but before that it was as in other people’s eyes, you are one of the icons that are up there. I mean, you know, with your Sassoon history and probably one of the people that know, new Videl. And it’s just such a pleasure and honor to have you on here. Just to you know, talk stuff, you know, so welcome. And it is absolutely an honor to have you on here.

Stephen Moody 2:26
Well, Chris, thank you. It’s an honor for me to be here. Thank you for inviting me. And probably most importantly of all I want to thank everybody for listening and participating in this and I think you and I chatted about this kind of prior this conversation is going to be very kind of fireside and

I just hope that people listening in they can get some good value takeaways. Yeah, a

Chris Baran 2:53
few minutes. That’s That’s exactly kind of where we want to go with this. So I you know, I always think that it’s really important for people to know how we got into this. So but I have a little bird that told me because I always like to find out. Did you have another job or where did this come from? But I I understand a little bird told me that was it a tractor company that you worked for prior to get into hair was that I have my sources correct here and my digging? You are not far from the truth per se and I know who the bird is that you’re referring to.

Stephen Moody 3:33
The long and short of it is I don’t know I got into hair. I think hair got into me

in the sense that I was born and raised in and around a hair salon. My mom was a Sassoon-a-holic and educational Holic when it came to floating her boat. And, you know, my friends at school, you know, obviously, when you’re 15,16, you’re incredibly impressionable when it comes to your peers. And, you know, everybody kind of assumed that, you know, I would go into the hair business and I just had this, this kind of notion that I wanted to prove everybody wrong. And I went and got a job working in a company that made steel parts, industrial parts as far away from hair as you could possibly possibly get. And I wanted to do that for one reason, one reason only, and that was that I could get a job be successful qualify. And then do something outside of hair and outside of the umbrella and the shadow of this incredible mother and father that that I had. And I did that I hated and the day I qualified I quit. Well, so

Chris Baran 4:56
our source that we have said that

Stephen Moody 5:00
You wanted to quit the forehand was that is that my little birdie told me correct on that. Yeah, I did. I wanted to quit before I completed and I, I didn’t do that because I wanted to see it through and it was just a matter of proving myself most importantly of all that I could see this through to the end. Yeah.

So but that was, it was an engineering background. Is that what that was an engineering? Yeah, it was an engineering job. I mean, I won’t get into the details because it’ll bore the socks off everybody. But yeah, I literally the day I qualified I quit and I thought I checked that box. Now I can move on.

Chris Baran 5:43
Yeah, so the the, but to take it back to that year, I want to go back to that where so it was the hook did was there an overlap in there while you were in that engineer engineering firm their engineering place that you went partway in and then went okay, good. Now I want to do here was there you got you finish that you quit?

Was it then you just said, Okay, I’m gonna quit and his hair. Was there a transition? What happened there?

Stephen Moody 6:13
Well, the people that are listening from Europe, you kind of might get this but people that are listening from the USA, I’ll explain. In Europe, that was a system called Saturday boys or Saturday girls. So if you’re in high school, and you were 14, 15, 16, whatever. And you were thinking of a career in x, y Z, fill in the blanks. You could go on Saturday, and you could work in a shop or a store or profession. And you could help and get an insight into is this something that I really want to do. So you didn’t have to wait to qualify from high school to kind of explore avenues of where you want to go with your life with your career with your craft, whatever that might be.

Chris Baran 8:09
you both got influenced in it. But I’m curious as your mom was one of the first people that really got if I got the story, right, they got Videl to travel outside and do training outside. Was that is that cotton? Do I have somewhat of that story? Correct there?

Stephen Moody 8:24
No, it’s absolutely correct. I you know, I think, you know, in the early 60s, you know, Mom entered the hairdressing industry in the era of roller sets, but teasing hair of Jackie Onassis here. And, you know, I think she really wanted to move on from that both creatively and financially but didn’t know what moving on look like. So, you know, like most smart people, she reached out to people who did know. And she eventually connected with a man in London, who was really revolutionising the way we approach hair. And rather than doing a one week, roller set service on a customer, he was doing a six week five week haircut service that obviously connected to color on clients and all of a sudden the hair is getting smaller and flatter and more compacted compared to So basically she went and hung out in a salon and said, hey, you know, I really want to learn this new thing. And it was a phrase at that particular time Chris and people of a certain age remember this phrase, it was called precision haircutting which kind of got away from the roller sets really. And she was bitten by this precision haircut bug and realized it was the next new thing. It was the thing coming over the horizon and again, like most smart people, you know, she really wanted to be on the front of the wave rather than the back of the wave. So I think, you know, it’s fair to say that she disproportionately invested in herself, and her craft and our business and our successes,and took ongoing education, to, you know, raise her awareness and raise a skill set and raise a confidence in this new thing and kind of moved away from the whole roll of set thing. Now, this is bearing in mind, Chris, that, you know, she’s in a tiny one,one horse town in the north of England in an industrial park, she’s not in a major city, she’s not in London, or Manchester, or Birmingham, or any of those huge financial hubs of commerce and fashion, you know, she was in a small village, really. So again, that was a massive move to be able to do that. And

Chris Baran 10:59
yeah, you know, you hit on a point there, though, because I think this is really important for the people watching and listening this, that sometimes we can really pigeonhole ourselves by thinking we’re not in a metropolis. Whereas you can be in a smaller area and still be a visionary, still be intelligent and creative. You know, a lot of people will go from those areas and try to go to a larger center so that they can develop it. But your mom was the kind of person that went, No, I can do that here too. Because the people if they want that there, and they have to travel to do it, they’ll have it here too. So I have just so much respect for your mom for wanting what she wanted, bucking the conventional system and doing it in her area, which your guys’s salon is there that Chris works at is still there.

Stephen Moody 11:53
Absolutely. And then this was the this was the home that I was raised in. Yeah. And you know, the style really was the front living room. And that salon grew and eventually took over the whole ground floor. And then it kind of worked his way upstairs and basically the salon evicted us. So we go and live someplace else. Because you know, the salon grew and grew.

Chris Baran 12:21
It’s funny how a parallel my mom was in Humboldt, Saskatchewan, freshly divorced.widowed, didn’t parallel there. But the my mom were above Sears like it wasn’t Simpson Sears in Canada, way back then. And I was in school and we had the front of our second floor apartment was mom’s salon upstairs. And in the back of there was our kitchen, kitchen bedroom. And we really had no living room at in the evening. When the salon was closed, we’d go in the TV was in thewas in the salon. So we’d go and sit in the salon and watch TV in the in, in the evening. So it’s really, really interesting how, you know, our parents learned to provide for us and make adjustments now but I want to hit on note did you start then now? So you got the bug. You got out of there? You got you did your your Saturday boy thing. What happened there? Fill us In the blank that Where Did did you work in mom’s salon, and then transfer over to Sassoon’s? How did that transpire? I kind of there’s a light bulb moment. It’s a snow shovel moment. I think it was 1973 1974 You were formed. I was I was Yeah, four at the time. And my mum took me to something cost Salon International. Which, again, for people who have not been it’s arguably one of the biggest trade shows. Yeah.It’s in London. And I kind of had this thing in the back of my mind. You know, this is something that I should go into. But there was a nagging thing. You know what, that’s the obvious thing to do, Stephen, because you come from a family of hairdressers. But going to salon international really was the snow shovel Bob, where it kind of I thought, Yes, I want to be part of it. And I think that that triggered that. And I just remember, you know, the cool factor of going to that actually, I remember seeing several events, one of which was Anthony Mascola. From Toni & Guy and I sat in the audience. I think Anthony is a year older than me, maybe.

Stephen Moody 14:43
And I just remember this young kid and he was just this young, upstart kid on stage, you know, amongst adults. And he just stood on stage and he put some gel through this girl’s hair. He pulled it into a ponytail. He reached into his pocket and blew up us sausage balloon about this long. And he rolled a set this girl’s hair on top of her head with this fast drying gel. And then he took a cigarette out of his other pocket, he lit it, it pulled pulled on the cigarette, and then he just popped balloon, pop the balloon, and I’m sure this this light gel that you’ve used was 95%. Alcohol is rolling perfectly, like sat into play. But he just walked off the stage with a cigarette and you’re done. Yeah, how freaking cool is Anthony? Wow, how cool is that.

And just to be there, and again, bear in mind, I’m from like, a small place in the north of England. And I’m just hearing people speak German and French and Spanish and Italian and Japanese. And there’s all the people there, you know, buzzing around in the audience and on the stage. And the one common denominator, Chris, is all of these people this event all over the world have one common denominator. And that is that their educationalholics. Right. You know, they really want to raise their game. And that’s why they traveled halfway around the world to go to this trade show call. This particular one was called smile on international. And I thought, wow, that is so exciting. This is so cool. And I think there’s two light bulbs, there’s not one, but why not first light bulb was I really want to do how, yeah, I want to be someone who can be in a position to make people feel good about what’s on top of their head, feel good about themselves. And then the other light bulb that went off was I wanted to be part of the process of learning, helping. And basically I watched my mother, you know, go from not a real good financial situation, certainly not a real good business situation, financial situation, to raising her game. And she done that through education. And I thought to myself, Chris, wow, wouldn’t it be cool if not only could I do hair. But I could do hair and make hairdressers smile and make her help addresses go on the same journey that my family really had been on? And that who is those two lightbulb moments? Yeah. And that was age 13. Now that’s 13

Chris Baran 17:37
Yeah, I just you have to step up on me because I, you know, you know, I had my light bulb moments later. And I think people have heard enough about that about me before. But my one thing that I remember is when you think about, you know, we always talk about the in America the shot that was heard around the world. But the influence that Salon International had on, on everybody throughout the world, because people went there to watch what went on first. And then they would copy evolve change. And and I think it’s that creativity that went on there like with Anthony does. I don’t know if he would I know. I think Anthony did it first that I know that Trevor did it. He came to America and he copied that I think I’m like be speaking out of turn. But I remember after that I saw that. And I went I was just starting off on the road. And I went oh, I’m going to do that too. So no, not that I did it successfully. Not that I did it anywhere near what he did. But I remember Trevor saying he couldn’t get gel that at the time manufacturers didn’t make a gel that worked really well. Yeah. Drive fast enough to drive fast enough. So he said you use KY jelly. And yeah. And so I went I figured we’re doing this show, small show I’m doing in Canada when I was I was in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan at the time and we had our salon right across the street was a pharmacy. And so I sent my apprentice across the way and I said look, we’re going to do the hair show. I just want you to go and and here’s some money I want you to pick up a dozen tubes of of KY jelly. So you know you have to imagine first of all he runs over and he’s got hair clips all over his kind of vest thing that he has on. He runs in there because it’s just like it’s in between clients. He runs down gets a dozen bottles of KY jelly sits on the counter and this young girl probably 16,17 years old is at the counter what 18 Whatever very young and she looks down and she looks down they have to imagine like you Be eye level like this, but he’s standing like this and the the clerk moves from looking at the counter moves over. And her eyes get really big when she sees this big stack of KY jelly. For anybody who doesn’t know what that is, look it up. And but then she won’t make eye contact, she won’t come up.

And so finally, you know, she looks like this and then he’s got the money ready and, and she never said a word just looked up at him very kind of with this bewilderment in his eyes as he passed the money. Wayne looked at and went, it’s gonna be a big weekend. He wasn’t lying. But it wasn’t the big weekend that she thought it was gonna be. But it just isn’t funny. The things that we have had to do at the time in order to make some of the creative things work. But anyway, buddy’s story on that. And but so tell me now I want to go back into So let’s kind of skip ahead. And and I understand. You went not because you were as far as I got you were the youngest creative director at Sassoon’s as am I correct on that? I’m on my off on m stuff.

Stephen Moody 21:18
I think I was the youngest principal, I don’t know is the youngest, Chris. Yeah. So in joining Sassoon, Chris, but basically what I had an eye on was really a career in the Sassoon academies. So again, for people that are not familiar, there was a number of Sassoon academies in London at that particular time. And the majority of the education at Sassoon academies was the people who liked the people that are listening to this podcast. We’re licensed hairdressers, and that’s really where I wanted to focus. The was as you would call in the US that cosmetology school as well, that I really wanted to focus my career on being around hairdressers and helping and educate and share with hairdressers. So that’s really where I sort of focused my career. I did some time in Sassoon salams, with Manchester, in Munich, and also in Knightsbridge. I worked in a Sassoon men salon, which is a little bit different to traditional classic men’s barber shops that today was cutting hair and fingers. Not with clippers.

So I I worked on Saturdays on and off as a Saturday boy while I was still in high school, and I kind of got the bug for hair and I enjoyed being around our I enjoyed being in the salon. I really enjoyed the whole buzz really see it was in my head long, long before I graduated high school because I’d done the Saturday boy journey and confirmed Hey, this is something that froze my earnings. I think I’d like this know exactly what I wanted to do where I wanted to do it. I wasn’t 100% Sure. But outside this nagging thing in the back of my head, Chris, that I had to prove a point. Like most hard headed teenagers, I had to go off point.

Chris Baran 7:50
The the wizard so Did you know your mom was one of the first people from if I remember this question, because as you well know, the there’s a little birdie that also is my business partner, that your your your brother Chris. And

Stephen Moody 22:34
So I got a real grounding and a real understanding of a clean towel and working with Mrs. Smith or Mr. Smith. But I constantly kept putting in my resume to transfer from the salon division to the academy division. And I was really lucky because in the early 80s That came about, and again, for people who kind of newish to the industry, in the 80s you know, hair was electric, absolutely. Electric. Both with color, both with cutting looks, you know, fashion, I would, I think it’s probably fair to say along with makeup, you know, girls went out and their hair and their makeup was really the starting point for the rest of the wardrobe, you know, for their overall image. And in the in the kind of early 80s Certainly, you know, if you did a client in the salon, and your next client was waiting, and you finished your client, and you repeated her hair on your next client, she typically complaint people wanted to be different, you want to have cookie cutter looks cookie cutter color. So in many ways, you know, it was the epitome of really tailor made or bespoke hair. You know whether that was someone who is incredibly conservative, or it was someone that was, you know, a little edgy and punk was insistency. But it was an exciting time in the craft. And I think the epicenter of the world of that excitement was definitely it was definitely London. And you know, the music scene and the makeup scene and the fashion scene and the clothing and their hair, it all really connected. So I was super fortunate to kind of cut my teeth and be in this epicenter of all of this happening to be in the right place, or the eighties at the right time. Sorry, the eighties in the right place, London. And I think in many ways, you know, with an amazing company so soon. And then within Sassoon, you know the science lab of Sassoon, the petri dish of Sassoon with sysoon Academy.

Chris Baran 24:57
Yeah, what was I mean? It’s You know, there was this word on the street, whether it was legend or whatever, when when Sassoon first started that, you know, there was people just literally lined up down the block, wanting to get in to get this precision, a haircut this architecturally cut methodology that he used. And and it rumoured that when you went in you, it’s not that you didn’t have a say they weren’t always treated with respect, but they would always, it’s not necessarily what you got when you were there. It was something that they said, here’s what you need. And, and I think that if there’s something that hairdressers throughout the world wished for, was that people just coming in and just saying, what do you what would you suggest and then having the Moxie to say you need to cut it to XY and Z links. And I think that I noticed it so much, that people are so afraid to lose a client that they’re afraid to, you know, by cutting hair, because sometimes that has its own mystique. What do you notice difference in from London at that time, or now or as you notice in being over in living in living in America now?

Stephen Moody 26:25
Well, I think what you’re touching on here, Chris is really strengthened consultation of you know, being able to listen to a customer hear their wishes, you know, look at their hair, look at the lifestyle, you know, look at what’s on top of their head, what’s this material that you’re working on? And obviously, the material is hair curly, straight long fill in the blanks? What’s the platform? Because there’s two elements involved. One is the actual material. The other is the platform, the platform is their head. You know, the head shape, you know, are the four foot two or the seven foot three, you know, and then adding to the the material on the platform. What is the essence of this person? What is the spirit? Who is this person? Are they shy? Are they loud? You know, what, what do they do for a living. So it’s really, we I think he in many ways it’s having in that consultation is having the ability to have a great big wooden spoon, and throw all of those elements into a big old pot and stir them around and cook up a dish that really can have entails the material you’re working with the platform you’re working on, and the spirit, the lifestyle, the life type of who is this person and coming up with a cocktail that works to them as an individual. And then obviously, then positioning that to them as an offering as an option. And that offering and that option they might bite on right there. And then that might be a journey that you take someone on over six, seven visits, it might take a year, it may take two years to get this person from being this blonde, for example, that doesn’t suit their skin type that’s kind of frying their hair, down to perhaps a beautiful butter blonde, soft cruise. You know, and that is a journey because we all well know, you know, when we’re working with customers, only half of what goes on is in the outside of their head. The other 50% is what’s going on inside their head. And for some tell someone to have a massive color change, or a massive length change or a massive texture change. Sometimes with some people that take it takes trust that to answer your question, I think, you know, back in, in that era of of you know, the 80s 70s 80s and probably into the 90s as well. It was much more of an approach of me going to see my dentist. Steve on what on earth does that mean? I have a dental appointment this Friday. I’m not going to sit in my dentist’s chair and tell my dentist what to do is to be truthful. I don’t know what the hell I’m talking about. He might make some suggestions to me and I might make some decisions based on those suggestions. But I’m gonna sit there happy to listen to my dentist. Why? Because he knows what he’s doing. Chris is an expert in his field. And, you know, I often sit next to people as you do on aeroplanes. And you know, someone, you get chatting to a complete stranger next to you. And, you know, they say what do you do for a living? And my first choice is I work for the IRS, and it shuts them right up. And yet, you have a peaceful, quiet journey. On the occasion where I do you know, fess up to what do I do for a living? I’m a hairdresser. You know, I’m an educator. People often turn around to me and say, you know, what, what advice would you have? Going into a salon with my type of hair? And I give it to barrels straight between the eyes, I say, find the most expensive hairdresser you can have in your city. Go visit that person. Don’t say anything? Yeah. Listen, listen to what they’ve got to say. And if you sold me a consultation, get lost nothing. Right? Get up and walk away. If you don’t like that, but don’t go and say anything. Listen to what they’ve got to say about any good hairdressers going to study, the material they’re working with? This is the material going out of top of our head, they’re going to study the platform. What is that material sitting on? The platform is the head, the cheekbones, the eyes, the shoulders, you know? And then the other thing is, they’re going to really dig into who are you? What’s your lifestyle? What are you all about? So again, that’s, that’s something that I teach. It’s something that I’m really, really passionate about. And obviously, the other element to this is, you know, you can do the best consultation in the world. But if you’re going to suggest, and I’m making this up Chris butter blonde, you damn well better be able to deliver butter blonde, or whatever it might be, yeah, Bob, or whatever it is, you know. So there’s two elements to this, there’s having the eye to be able to make a suggestion, the confidence to make a suggestion, but also the other element is executing it, and making it sit just right, because we all know, there’s 100 Different versions on butter blonde, and I’m just gonna keep using the word blonde fill in the blanks, guys.

Chris Baran 32:30
Yeah, yeah. You know, the, it’s interesting. And I, I took this from one of my teachers, I always say that, you know, I think what we have and what makes us as the, as our teachers that we had before us, and how we, how we pass that information on. And I’ll never forget this, that when they were talking about during the consultation process, sort of tag on to what you said about just listen. Because whenever I go to teach something I get people say, Well, how do I get them to take them down into hair cuts above their shoulders? Or how do I get them to change from one look to the other? And, and, and this, my teacher said this one time, and it stuck with me forever. And I wish I could remember who it was because I’d love to give them credit. But they he looked at me and he said, Okay, now I want you to think of it this way. I’m gonna get here’s $10,000. And, and he got me to accept that $10,000, metaphorically, but yeah, not even in my hands. And then he said to me, if you if you could go to your favorite designer. And if you could say to that designer, that you wanted to get them to make you something. And he said to me, what would you say to that designer? And what do you mean? And he said, Well, if I gave you the $10,000, and you could only get one outfit, you can’t have mix and match, do all these different ads, just get one outfit? What would you say to that designer? And I had to think about for a second and I finally said to him, well probably just say, what would you suggest? And he said exactly. He said, so if you can set that up with your clients, that if they come in with one thing in mind, and that just said look at I I love that idea. Let’s let’s just go down this road as a designer and so his message to me that always stuck with me. And I think it helped to change me from an order taker. To a designer was to be able to say look at everybody is going to come in with one thing like you said earlier that they don’t necessarily know what they know they only know what they’ve had. And only the designer is going to have the art I have the skill to be able to create that, but the finesse, to be able to get them to do it. And that because, you know, what you said is so powerful. Because what I heard you say earlier that there’s only two ways to get to that end result. And it’s either with the scissors or with patients, you know, when it comes to cutting, so you’re either going to cut it, but not all the hair might be there yet. So you need the patience. So you’ve got to be able to cut to a degree grow to a degree and eventually get to it if you can’t, because we don’t get that perfect canvas.

Stephen Moody 35:37
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things too, Chris, that’s super important that I would like to share is is, is, you know, through the consultation process, my mind is working so fast. And I sometimes end up listening with my mouth. Rather than listening with my ears, and I can just, I’m kind of listening to what they’re saying. But am I? Yeah, because in my mind, my design a mind, my creative mind, my haircut is mind. I’m already putting things on my head. Right. And I barely got through. Hi, I’m Steven, what’s your name?

Chris Baran 36:22
Yeah.

Stephen Moody 36:25
You know, someone said to me the other day, you know, I can’t remember where the heck I was now. And I flown to fill in the blanks. And I said, you know, on the plane on the way over here, I did 258 haircuts on the plane. And this person said, get it, what? How many haircuts? On the airplane? You’re allowed to take scissors on there? No, no, no, metaphorically? Yeah, I look at someone and within seconds, I thought, you know, I’d love to see more weight here. Or I’d love to see that a bit more often things. I’d love to see that, you know, without a center party or whatever. So my brain, my consultation brain is constantly doing that. But in many ways that can be a detriment. Because when you’re doing that, you’re listening with your eyes. And you’re listening with your mouth. You’re not listening with your ears?

Chris Baran 37:23
Yeah, I think it was. There’s this book, that it’s really tiny book, it only had like, maybe 50 or 60 pages. And the name of the book was called winners and losers. I believe the author was Sidney J. Harris. And I turned one of the pages and everything was winners, do this losers do this? Yeah, turn the page on. And this one stood out in my brain, it said. Winners, listen, losers wait for their turn to talk. And I think it hit me so hard. While I was the loser. That was just waiting for my turn to talk. Yeah, rather than doing active listening. It’s hard to do because it is our brains are racing, we’ve got something to add. I mean, I’ve already had 10 questions that I wanted to ask you just what coming up in my brain, but by listening, I forgot them. But I think it’s that attentiveness that you have to have. That one stuck with me forever. So I think that if you’re actively listening, sometimes you have to listen to what they’re saying. But then the trick is, listened to what they mean. Yeah, because we, they might say it in words, but they mean something else. And so you’ve got to dig a bit deeper. So that’s what I find is really fun. And you know, who’s, as you well know, I know your brother super well. But he is terrific at that is trying to find what’s the meaning behind what that question was. And he’s terrific at that. He’s got an incredible mind. It’s a smart guy. Well, he is. And so being is that smart guy. And I alluded I think we both know, he’s a little birdie that I got some information from. I told him and I told him, we were having our GPS meeting this morning, and we were both on together. And I I said, here’s one question that I want to ask. Stephen is, he says, because I was talking to him one time, I guess you get you had been home. And I was talking to him shortly after that. He said, You know, because he’s a he’s a tremendous hair cutter as well. And he said, you know, what freaks me out is when Stephen asked me to cut his hair, so somebody says, like, often takes me like, two hours and I’m I’m sure he views you as who you are, professionally as well. But he said if it stresses me out, you know, I’m taking two hours I gotta gotta get Where do you think that comes from?

Stephen Moody 39:59
I have absolutely No idea other than people that have seen me up close they know that I have my hairline defies gravity. Yeah, hair grows all over the place. I have cowlicks on top of cowlicks on top of cowlicks that they had does listen to the scissors. Yeah, he does pay attention to a pair of scissors. And, and typically, you know, when I say to someone, Hey, I’d like this, I’d like that. I’d prefer to be this way, that way or that way. And then I sit down and I usually shut up. And the main reason is what’s I’ve taken my glasses off, because I can’t see anyway. So until wait till the end,

Chris Baran 40:42
I’ll leave. Wait till I leave to put them on.

Stephen Moody 40:45
Yeah. And I, you know, like yourself, you know, you’ve cut 1000s of people, you, Chris Baran you do the best haircuts when someone sits there. And they just go with the flow. Relax, and I’m coming back to that person. I’m sitting next to on the aeroplane. What advice would you give me? And, you know, I always think that the best hair cutters the best colorist in the world. You know, I think they do their finest work. When the left to a certain degree. Yeah, for their own means. Yeah. And it’s something really that underpins everything that we do. It’s called trust.

Chris Baran 41:25
Yeah, there’s the magic word says the magic words. Yeah. Because it takes a while to build it. Sure. It’s second to lose it. Sure it does. Yeah, no, that’s I, I I really believe that if as hairdressers if we could make it more about the experience. But that’s I think that’s a whole nother Hour segment, etc. I want to we talked about this in your opening. I don’t think that there’s a continent that you haven’t been on. That you haven’t done here on oh one which that I’ve talked about? Oh, well, yeah, I’m sure not many penguins really want to have their hair cut above their shoulders?

Stephen Moody 42:11
Not many penguins were in? Yeah, no,

Chris Baran 42:13
I’ve been to a few but not as many as you. I know, you, you. You are all over literally the world doing seminars. And I think that’s what I love about what your discipline. I mean, you’ve you’ve it’s always been pure education. If I’m on stage, it’s pure education. If I’m teaching one on one, it’s pure education. And but what was just give me a hint of if you had to say, traveling the world, doing seminars, shows in salon, whatever that might have been. I just want to get first off best of what was the not necessarily best of for me, but if the one that the one that you went, this was this was actually brilliant. Love this one. It was just the vibe, the feeling the best of times, if you had to put it down to one that comes to your brain, because I know there’s many, but an instance that come to your brain. What was that?

Stephen Moody 43:11
I think you’re asking me to pick my favorite child currently.

Chris Baran 43:14
Yeah, no, no, I’m asking that. I’m just saying if you had to talk about that favorite child, on the one thing that they did, what would that be?

Stephen Moody 43:23
I think I’m gonna dodge the question because it for me, any time an individual, a hairdresser, a salon owner, an educator, anytime they got that trust in time, and money, anytime they invest that in me, I am so proud of them. I’m so thankful to them. Because, you know, a little bit like flying on an aeroplane, we’ve got choices, you know, and I’m just really, really thankful anytime I can have that trust from an organization from maintec or fewer from an individual from a salon or whatever. They, you know, turn around and say, Hey, Stephen, you know, we trust in you, here’s our goals, here’s what we’d like to do for themselves. And in my vision for me, that is

Chris Baran 44:23
the end goal. And I want to go there, because I think it’s something that our industry is really in need of right now. And I know that well first of all, I want to just talk about the you’ve got a couple of awards and I from intercoiffure. Were at and I’ve got this written down here. you just got the hair cutting Icon Award, which they just gave to you in New York and and also about the Knight award, and I’m just going oh my god, like do we have to go? Is this going to be addressed You as you know, like, ceremony when they

Stephen Moody 45:03
put sword on my shoulder Yes.

Chris Baran 45:05
Yeah. And I don’t know if I’m kissing or bowing or we’re not allowed to talk until we’re spoken to by you. But first of all, I want to talk about that. And then I want to talk about your involvement with the mission that you have with intercoiffure. So, first of all, what was it like? Because if anybody who knows, I don’t think there’s any more, any person more deserving of that then you, but what was it, like, tell me about the experience when what that was like when, when they said, I want to give to this because I’m sure you’re like so many people. I’m just, I’m just Stephen. Whereas, but when you get acknowledged like that, sometimes for the whole lifetime that you’ve put into it, what what was the feeling like when when they they must have told you about it first, and then you have to accept it in front of all these amazing peers?

Stephen Moody 45:58
I think I think you hit the nail on the head there about the peers, I just think it’s always it’s always a good feeling to have people who, you know, you’ve admired and you’ve worked alongside, turn around and say, Well done, you know, that that is a real feel good moment. But to be honest with you, you know, it’s kind of a fleeting for me, I can’t speak for anybody else. But for me, that’s kind of a fleeting moment, because I’m not judged on that. That’s not how I miss says, I’m assessed on the last class that I taught, right? You know, I did something in Denver with a small group of eight people in a salon. I mean, that, to me, is my latest award. That’s my latest achievement, my latest thing, because at the end of the day, I’m only as good as the last group of people that I stood in front of, you know, did they reach their objectives? You know, were they able to take what I shared with them, and elevate their game creatively? And technically, and most importantly, of all, financially, did it make an impact? So, yeah, it’s great to go to Paris. And it’s great for all these people in the audience to clap. And so you know, well done, Steven. But for me, it’s kind of quickly moving on to my next measurement. My next award. Is this group of people that have put their trust in me. Yeah. And I mean, it’s a little bit like, you know, a lot of people listening to this will kind of, probably already know this. But as of July 1, I moved to an organization called John Paul Mitchell systems. And, you know, I become one of six artistic directors. And I’m so thrilled again, it’s trust. This thing is about trust. They’re trusted, and empowered me to head up the artistic side when it comes to cutting hair. Yeah. And I’m just so thrilled with that. But at the same time, I’m very conscious of what can I do, what do I need to do to help people around me, you know, raise their game. And John Paul Mitchell system is very good, obviously, to selling John Paul Mitchell system products, but at the same time, having that balance of delivering product education, with craft, education, and again, that trust is really aligning with my other co artistic directors in Colin Caruso heads off the color side, your Noogie Thai, who’s a red carpet award winning hair stylist, you know, aligning with him, Paula Peralta, who’s just a wizard when it comes to texture, curly hair. John Mosley, who’s a NAHA winning award winning Barber, an amazing talent in the barber educator, an educator, amazing educator. And the ringmaster himself, you know, the guy at the center of it all, who really kind of makes everybody shine on that big stage. And that’s Robert. Robert Cromeans. Yeah. So each person coming together with a different a different sort of skill set element.

Chris Baran 49:38
You’re, there’s That’s it right there. I remember. As you know, like Sam Villa and I are really close friends. And we would do a lot of we would always debate things, you know, we’d get into a haircut and we’d, we’d never come to blows but would we argue about the way that it was what it should be? And we went I remember But we went to the bar and there’s a bar I meant the coffee shop with, with the education director at that time. And and we voiced our concerns said, Well, should it be like this? Should it be like that? What’s going on here? And then I remember the words that that, that she said to us was, if both of you always agreed on everything, one of you wouldn’t be necessary. And that is stuck with me. And I think that’s where you really hit it there. Because when you have Robert and John, and you and all those people that are creative, like minded in wanting to advance and help the hairdresser, that you’re going to have to give, take push, pull on, on all of those things to get the best result.

Stephen Moody 50:51
Yeah, yeah. And I think to add to what you’ve just said to, you know, I know for sure that Sam has so much respect for you and what you do, and vice versa. And it’s having that respect with each other, or in my case with five people to where that magic really, really comes together.

Chris Baran 51:15
Yeah, that’s, that is so true. Because I don’t think without respect, without trust, it just all falls apart. And then you get all this back fighting. And that’s which none of us like I don’t want to be a part of. So I want to go because we hit on towards there. And I, I don’t know why I’m bringing this up right now. But I remember that Chris moody, and your brother, and I had you on our GPS format, global peak performance systems. And we had you on there talking about that. And in you shared at that time, your collection that you are going to put into NAHA. And I saw that collection upgrade away. And I said, Look at I’m withdrawing mine, I said that will win hands down. And it was I have to say your work is magical. You know, when I just look at how it fits on the head. And I just that one collection that you had a look at this, I must really enjoyed it, I’m drooling. The reality was that work was hands down. The most beautiful work that I had seen that year, I mean, for a long time. And I’d have to say even now, that was just gorgeous work. What was I mean, before that you were never allowed with the soons to enter competitions, etc. What? Or as long as I have my memory right here, though, what was that? Like when you finally got to? And I know you’re a humble human being and you’re gonna say it’s all it was all fine, and so on. But that had to give you some props where you went? I don’t know. Give us what like when, when that all happened. Tell us about when you got that award and what that felt like.

Stephen Moody 53:07
Yeah. So So Well, thank you for the compliment there, Chris. But I have to give everybody a little bit of a backstory here in the sense that I had an email that came across and said, Hey, look, you know, entries are open for NAHA. So for people that are listening, NAHA is the North American hairstylist awards. It’s the Academy Awards, basically for addresses from the US and Canada. And entries are open blardy blardy blar. And because of COVID. You can enter with looks that have previously been published, looks to have previously been put together, which is not always the case with any competition. Typically when we enter a competition, that has to be a closed entry, and it’s only revealed when you enter the competition. But obviously, because of COVID we couldn’t get with photographers we couldn’t get with models we couldn’t get with makeup artists. So the collection that you’re referring to was actually not a collection. I just had it in my head that I wanted to enter. NAHA I wanted to enter the cutting category because that’s my happy place. But I really wanted to enter it with African American hair or highly, highly textured hair. And when I did my research, what I realized was most entries that had gone into NAHA haircutting before it being either white girls ethnic hair, or there were black girls that had their hair blow dried straight to make them look like they had Straight ethnic hair. And I thought well hang on a minute, there’s a missing piece there. And I routed through all of my work and came up with about 50 Looks Chris, from Brazil, from South Africa from all over the place where I’d worked on naturally curly hair. Now remember, I’m not putting together a collection, because I can’t do that it’s COVID. After use existing work, then I quickly realized, oh my god, you need to have signatures, you need to get the makeup artist to sign up for the photographer, model. And dun dun, dun dun. So this, you know, 12 to 15. Pictures slowly, slowly, slowly came down to quite a narrow field. And the three looks that I ended up entering, just by coincidence, all been photographed by a man called Nick Bharati, who’s my ex. My ex colleague from Sassoon, who’s now an amazing photographer, videographer check out his work on Instagram. So luckily, one common denominator when it came to the photographer, there was a seven year span Criss between the first photograph, and the last photograph, and the doll been photographed after an event. So all three girls that can’t stay in front of 20 or 100,000 people. And after it was over, we took the picture backstage so that pictures weren’t photographed, or competition, they weren’t photographed, but no harm. And I took that as lemonade made from lemons. And I made a positive out of it. And I really wanted to enter NA cutting category with curly hair that had been cut into shape, rather than iron, right to shape rather than beating to share with electricity and thermal processes, or chemical processes. And luckily, I was able to get these three looks together. Nick made them all gel together, he changed the background and gave me like a concrete background. And he made it look like there were three girls that had been photographed together, when in actual fact, there was a seven year gap between them.

Chris Baran 57:30
That’s gonna be really, that’s why you want a great photographer, you know? So

Stephen Moody 57:34
again, Nick, Nick is the man I mean, Nick is not blowing his trumpet here. But when he looks through the lens of a camera, he sees shape. He sees hair. Yeah. First one,

Chris Baran 57:48
there’s the keynote. That could, yeah, there’s the key when you got somebody that was an amazing hairdresser. And turns into a photographer, it’s not just about, they know what’s working with the hair, and they know what’s not, and they can tell you look at that’s gonna look like a piece of Koco right now, unless you do something like x, y, z. And so it’s off to him. Hats off to is like, I’ll never forget that when you showed that I just went there was the winner right there. Hands down. And so I want to I want to just take a little jump over to you’ve been traveling all over and I’m not talking about you know, the the audience’s that were great, etcetera. But like I was calling more stories I remember, we’d always go and sit there in the pub or whatever before after model call. And we’d lead to talk about war stories that we had things that were tinged with some we could get just a good laugh out. You know, when you talk about the things that really kind of went weird on you one time and and then you can have a laugh at it when it doesn’t sting so much anymore, you know, but as I remember, I was working for another company that shall remain nameless. And and this was way back in the early 80s. When everything was perms and the there perms that didn’t have that. I’ll put it this way. They had some great color, but they didn’t have great perms at that time. And so we were using another brands color. And that was in the days when you didn’t have a model room. You yours your room was the model room. So you slept there at night and whatever smell was in the room. That’s what you had during what you had to sleep in. So I remember that. We had our whole team was there. We were doing the these perms in our hotel room having to rinse them in the bathtub. And it was just our team in us so we could sneak in these other firms so that we could get the results we wanted and I remembered that all of a sudden there was a knock on the door and I looked through the key Will that not keyhole but the vision, a little thing that you had on your hotel room door. And it was the education manager of that company that we’re representing. So we had to take these these models, there was two models that we still had in perm rods waiting to be rinsed, and we stuffed them in the closet. And while this person came in and was talking to us about the show, and we’re sweating and looking at the look in our clocks, because it’s almost time processing, oh my God, it was so much fun. But anyway, those are, it was panic, we got it, we finally ushered them out the room to get something got the things permed and it went on. But that was a valuable lesson that I got out of that one of Yeah, number one not to do, even if you’re doing something that what you say wasn’t really correct. But yeah, you don’t you never cheat number one. And then number two is, is it makes it a hell of a lot easier. So you’d have to worry about if somebody comes over, is there. Things that happen to you at classes in the road on backstages whatever, weird, Road Warrior stories that you’d share.

Stephen Moody 1:01:17
I have a litany Chris, but I’m gonna go to my favorite and excuse me if you guys have heard this story before, but I have not been teaching at this Sassoon Academy for very long and I got shipped off to do an event in Italy. And it was a decent sized audience maybe like 500 or something. And, again, for people listening to this are not familiar with Italian hairdressers, you know, they will throw roses at you, then tomatoes. Exactly, yeah. So I cut this girl’s hair on stage. And it’s kind of busy, busy, busy and crazy. And you know, we’ve got the prep times just disappeared in a puff of smoke. And next thing I know I’m on stage cutting this girl’s hair. And I don’t remember what I did. It was this little short layered thing. Soft on the edges real pretty. And this girl in her stocking feet is like at least three inches taller than me and I’m almost six foot. So she’s got, you know, five inch heels. And I cut this girl’s hair and she’s done. And I stand her up. And the audience goes wild everybody’s clapping and cheering Bravo. Oh, and again, there’s no middle ground in Italy. It’s either booing or you know, they just go crazy. So for you know, drama, I kind of reach around the front of this girl. And I rip away the velcro from her her gown a kimono that she’s wearing. Rather like a matador in dramatic fashion. I hold this as kimono off her and spin around and walk away. And the volume goes from 100 to 110. And now the audience that and I’m thinking yeah, they really love her hair. And I spin around her. This girl is not flinched, she has not budged and she stood there. And she’s wearing five inch heels, a G string, a bra, and my haircut. And she’s never flinched, and the audience loved it. They thought it was all part of the choreography. They thought it was literally like forgot to dress this girl.

Chris Baran 1:03:40
Oh, no. Yeah. Well, thank God, you had a pro model. I’ll tell you that. Oh, yeah, I used to do that and just not flinch. That’s That’s amazing. And now I also understand why the audience would have went crazy, because it was purely because of the hair Correct? Oh, only the hair. I love

Stephen Moody 1:03:58
it. Yeah. I don’t mean Italy. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:04:01
Well, I hope Yeah. Because Lord knows here if you happen here, we could have got sued. Now, if Stephen, if I was to talk if you were Stephen Moody’s best friend, okay. And I was having a conversation with your best friend. And I wanted to know about Stephen moody. What would that best friend say? What would he do? How would he describe Stephen Moody?

Stephen Moody 1:04:42
Patient in spades.

Chris Baran 1:04:45
Patient in spades. Wow. I’m gonna write that one down. Because that’s one that nobody’s ever said about me. But I I can see that. I can see that. I see that in the way that you talk. I see it Then, because we’ve talked many times along the way, and I see that I can hear it in the, in the way that you said about your persona and dealing with clients behind the chair. That’s amazing.

Stephen Moody 1:05:12
Chris, I’ve not always been that way. That’s something that I had to work on, really. And it’s something that I have to continue to work on.

Chris Baran 1:05:22
What was the what was the catalyst that made you change?

Stephen Moody 1:05:26
I think the catalyst really was over a period of time of being a professional educator. You know, moving away from the mindset of everything has to be perfect. Every haircut has to be perfect. Every person that’s working in your room that you’re teaching, has to go through this level. And I think it’s the realisation that perfection comes in different degrees. And people are going on a path of learning, and a path of improvement goes along in different degrees. So, you know, not everything is created, equal. And I think what I’m trying to say here Chris, is improvement, progress, perfection. Transition to one person is this to another person. It’s this. Yeah, neither one is right or wrong, Chris? Yeah. But I think it’s that that really kind of, you know, I think the thing I have to remember remind myself and remind others is, is this journey that Chris Baran Stephen Moody’s on this journey is a marathon. It’s not a sprint. And the younger Stephen Moody, in his you know, in his early 20s was sprinting away, you know, 10 to the dozen and was of a mindset that the person who finished first was the best. Yeah. And that was the only way to go and that that’s not the case.

Chris Baran 1:07:07
Yeah, it really is about helping people to see progress, not it because they’re nobody’s gonna get to perfection. God was number one, there is no such thing. But personally as even if there was you can’t go from not knowing something to perfection in one goal. So no, I’ve went on that journey to I’m still not the most patient person. But what I do think is I’m not as eloquent as you. And I always think that, that I always call it sometimes throw yourself a bone. You know, like, you know, to the porch, just, you know, give it give the dog a bone, it’s okay. People always they, I think that if we don’t show compassion as a, as an educator, it’s down the toilet because the people won’t show any compassion for themselves. We live in such a judgmental society, that when people are so afraid to make a mistake, that they just don’t do anything. So, you know, the morals.

Stephen Moody 1:08:11
I heard a beauty the other day about mistakes. told me I heard a beauty in it. And it was something along the lines. Did you know, failure? Is a bruise. It’s not a tattoo.

Chris Baran 1:08:26
Oh, wow. I’m gonna write that down.

Stephen Moody 1:08:30
One more time for everybody. Yeah, failure is a bruise. It’s not a tattoo.

Chris Baran 1:08:40
Yeah. Oh, that’s. That’s brilliant. I’m going to use that. And I will pass that on. i This is what I got from my friend Steven moody. That’s Now listen up just one more thing, and then I’ve got something I want to really kind of wrap wrap this up on is if you could grab one wish. To the industry, not no, not not for ourselves. Not for me, not for you. But things that you see in the industry. If you had one wish for industry. What would that be? You could go like this, and that would change. Yeah. Can I have three? You can have three.

Stephen Moody 1:09:33
I think the first one would have to be something that’s quite current. And please take what I’m about to say with a pinch of salt. That I think one way would be for all of us, myself included. To be more judicious with irons. Use irons to polish hair. Make use irons to make hair looked great and polished and refined here is what I’m trying to say. As opposed to using irons to build shape. So Stephen, what on earth does that mean? It means that we’ve got to remember that, you know, when we send a customer out of the door, and what we’re really looking at a shape created with irons, that’s really a roller set. Bingo, is only as good as the next time she gets in the shower. Underneath, there has to be something that’s structural, there has to be something that she can work with. He can manage. And yeah, she can also polish. And I think it kind of leads me on to my second thing. And, again, please pinch of salt, everybody. Be kind to hair. Be kind to hair. Stephen, what on earth does that mean? It means we’ve been through a decade, a decade and a half of really being hard on hair. And I think coming out of the the C word and coming out of this lockdown that we’ve had and moving forward, I think there’s an era of being gentle, being kind, being respectful with hair, whether it’s the way we blow dry, or it’s the way we color it. Or it’s the way we iron it, or it’s the products we choose and treatments, shampoos, you know, planet friendly kinds of animals, whatever, be kind to hair because I think when we’re kind to hair, and we’re respectful fair with hai, I think the hair gives us back. It’s kind to us. If that makes sense.

Chris Baran 1:11:57
No, that perfect sense. Perfect.

Stephen Moody 1:12:01
And then the next thing can it comes back to money. Because I always want to come back to money. We’re here for money, none of us work for a charity. Right. The other thing I’d love to see is is people really studying and really embracing shoulder length. And above hair, shoulder length and a hair above hair that connects the color. And maybe that colors, two colors, three colors, maybe that colors in foil, you know, maybe that colors placed. So that color speaks to the haircut, the haircut speaks to the color. But it also speaks to the texture. It connects back to texture. In hair, whether that textures with product, that texture isn’t her own god given texture, that texture is enhanced with irons not created with irons, enhanced with irons. You mentioned the P word earlier on, you know, maybe that’s coming down the track to Chris, maybe that’s not too far away. But most importantly, of all, all of the above shoulder length and above, you know two three colors that complement that shape, products that complement all of that, that connected texture. But most importantly of all, I think all of the above comes back to what I started this podcast with. And that is the word bespoke bespoke is a really fancy English word. And what it really means guys is tailor made tailored spa and the two analogies there is you know, you can go to Nordstroms you can buy a perfectly good suit off the rack. And if you’re lucky, it’ll fit you fairly well. Or you can go to an expert tailor and they can cut that cloth to fit you and you only and you’re gonna look like a million dollars that’s bespoke all of the above. I think all of the above does two things. I think it fires us because hairdressers, it fires ignites and it Stokes our creative inspirations. None of us I don’t think want to stand behind a chair and do 16,17 Blow drives on a woman’s hair down to a robot and act I and all of the above what I just mentioned earlier, it kind of speaks to us as creative individuals with hair. The last thing it speaks to is us as creative individuals making a living paying the mortgage paying A car payment. Because what does that does? It removes us from Groupon. It removes us from the mass it makes us as individuals stand out in the crowd. And again, I’m going back to the beginning of the podcast, Chris, I love to finish. as we as we started, that really comes back to a dynamite consultation, and being able to the tailor make a consultation for the individual, and most importantly of all, deliver on those promises. How do we do that? Chris? We do that by investing in ourselves in quality hands on purposeful education.

Chris Baran 1:15:53
Yeah, they go.

Stephen Moody 1:15:56
Preferably not on a mannequin, preferably not with a massive group of people, something that’s tailored and directed an individual group of people, and maybe that education is focused 100% on men, or ethnic hair, or coloring blondes or and, and, and and I’m not picking on one particular subject, I’m not picking on one particular manufacturer, I’m not picking, it could be any of the above. But please, please, when you’re making your educational selections, and you’re building your educational calendar, which is super important to plan ahead, you know, plan for the future. Really think of your education being in two clearly defined buckets that are equally important. These two buckets are not one more important. The other one bucket product knowledge. How do I get the most from this color line? How do I get the most from retailing this particular product over here? How do I use this computer system? On my front desk? That’s product knowledge? Yeah, the other bucket is craft Education, and craft education spans, styling hair, it spans, coloring hair, it spans consultations, it spans suitability, it spans all of the above. But these two buckets are independent, and at the same time, interconnected. So please, guys, invest in yourself. We talked about my mom, earlier, again, I’m going back to the beginning of this podcast, she invested in herself. And that raised her game, both creatively. And financially. I do that. I know you do that, Chris, all of us do that. And it’s the way to guarantee a prosperous and long career in this wonderful, wonderful craft that we call hair. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:18:18
You know, Steven, I, first of all, I just want to say, thank you for spending this time with us here. And I just want to I don’t think it could be more timely because use that word in investment in yourself. And, you know, you’ve taken all of your education, your craft, the things that you do, the knowledge that you have on how to make somebody beautiful, and you’ve given us that worth, you’ve spent that time with us so that the people listening and watching this can glean from you. So I can’t thank you enough for being on here. As always, it’s a pleasure. I, you know, I look forward to the day when I can be beside you and kiss the ring of Sir Stephen. Yeah, no, but listen, the it’s just a been a pleasure, my friend as always. And I just want to thank you so much for giving up your time with all of our people. So I just want to say thank you so much for helping everybody who is listening and watching.

Stephen Moody 1:19:21
You are very welcome. And thank you for for having me on your wonderful podcast. I really appreciate that Chris, and I want to thank JPMS for allowing me to, to come on here and do this on their time. But most importantly of all, I want to thank all of you who are listening to this podcast, and all of you that are spending time to sit and listen to Chris and myself. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Chris Baran 1:19:53
Thank you again.