ep68 – John Mosley

I’m excited to welcome to Headcases an ambassador for Andis, SalonCentric, Feather, Vagaro, and for L’Oreal Texture of Change. He is a barber extraordinaire and a celebrity hairdresser. He won NAHA Educator of the Year. He started the “Popular Nobody” brand to mentor hair artists, musicians, and people in the movie industry. He’s been published in GQ, New York Times, Style, British Vogue, and the cover of Billboard Magazine. I’m thankful for the opportunity to chat with my guest John Mosley.

Find him online at ThePopularNobody.com

  • John got started in the hair industry after realizing that he didn’t want to be a football player. His mom was a hair educator and his sister went to Vidal Sassoon in London and was doing hair for the large and small screens. John followed in their footsteps, leaning into both sides, doing education and working on TV shows and movies with top celebrities.
  • John believes that the hair industry has so many options for new graduates. They can be product managers, product creators, salon owners, school owners, teachers, education directors, and so much more.
  • “If it ain’t beneficial, it’s artificial.”

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 0:00
How great would it be to get up close and personal with the beauty industry heroes? We love and admire and to ask them how did you learn to do what you do? I’m Chris Baran, a hairstylist and educator for 40 plus years and I’m inviting all our heroes to chat and share the secrets of their success

Well, welcome to this week’s Headcases and I’m particularly excited because I think I’ve got a new buddy a new friend out of this. And I wanted to give you a little bit of information about him first off, he is an ambassador for Andis, SalonCentric, Feather and Vagaro. He is a L’Oreal textured texture of change ambassador, a in my mind and in the industry. He is a barber extraordinaire. He is a celebrity artist as well a does the hair for Kendrick Lamar, Eminem and Idris Elba ladies Eat your heart out. He is a fellow podcaster he has one called “nobody listens”. He has been published in GQ, New York Times, Style, British Vogue, cover of Billboard. I’m running out of breath here, Black Enterprise, Ebony and Rolling Stone, Who can believe that one person does all of that. And he’s been named the top 100 industry game changers by Modern Salon magazine. He has started the Popular Nobody brand that includes mentoring hair artists, musicians and people in the movie industry. So let’s get into this week’s head case. My new good buddy, John Mosley.

John Mosley 1:54
Thank you. It’s an honor. When I seen that email come through in the DM come through. I was like, I have to do this. Like I’m super excited about it.

Chris Baran 2:03
Well, listen, I you know, as I tell a lot of people that I have on here, and this has been the same with you, we’ve been how would I say we’ve been friends that haven’t connected yet? And, and I I’ve been a big admirer of you and your work? And particularly I mean, come on Educator of the Year with nah, ha. And I think that pretty much proves it. You know what I and I want to just talk to that for just a second. Because I mean, I think that when people see people get up with NAHA. And they see people get to deliver their speech and thanking their people etc. They don’t really realize what it does and what’s get to there. But I think the other side of it that I’ve heard from so many people in our industry about you because quite frankly, this is our first time really connecting is how humble you are. And that you don’t take yourself so seriously. But what does that Educator of the Year do for? John Mosley?

John Mosley 3:02
That’s a great question, Chris. Um, for me, it just says that I’ve been, I’ve impacted a lot of lives. It says that you can never judge a book by its cover, because I’m not your typical looking educator that I don’t run around with the flash, I don’t run around with the flare, I get right. And so I and I also give other people an opportunity that may look like me, that may not look like me, but come from backgrounds that may be of less fortunate, or, you know, some kids that want to be more than what their story is, you know, written about? Yeah. And so for me, it means the world to me, because it shows that I did more with my brain than I ever could do with my hands.

Chris Baran 3:51
Yeah. What so? I mean, you often hear from you know, like people that that finally get to the point where they want in life and then they want to give back did was that part of your background as well. What did you have? Did you come from there and where nobody gave you a chance? Is that what that would spark that what sparked that

John Mosley 4:11
was sparked it was honestly, my family gave me a chance my mother and father put me in a position my sisters believed in me. And that’s why when you see me now, I always have like family around me because that’s, that’s who I could trust and if I use them, but doesn’t always make you family. So I got a lot of people around me that are called family. That’s not blood. But you know, they they’re there. They’re there with me. They’ve been in the trenches with me. Just a few minutes ago, I got off of a call with somebody I’ve been around me for 15 years and they’re not blood but yeah, I call him or he called me and the first word we say is what’s up family. You know? Not think for me, that’s what it’s always been and even when you look at how I put you know, the popular nobody family around me a collective group of artists, they we all treat each other like for him?

Chris Baran 5:00
Yeah. And you know, and I want to go back to what you said, because I think that’s so profound is blood sometimes well, I’m paraphrasing blood, sometimes mean family and blood sometimes doesn’t mean family, meaning that you can have people around you that are family, but it’s not set necessarily by blood. I just think that I think that resonates so deeply. To me, because family is huge in my life, and we have people, and like, my, my, I’m not the only person that had the Papa Bear tag that came on me. But I think you gather people around you, that you consider family, and some people are allowed to call us, you know, family, and some people aren’t. And sometimes the, you know, I have family, not my not my immediate family, but I have family around me that I haven’t seen that are blood family that I haven’t seen in, you know, 30 years, you know, and while they are family by blood, they’re not necessarily as much a part of my life anymore. So I thought that was truly profound. Because it’s the people you affect, correct. Correct.

John Mosley 6:05
And the people that affect you, you know, some some of us need family, some of us. And I’m just glad that the people that searched and believed in my leadership count me as family. And that’s like I said, that’s why I keep my family around me.

Chris Baran 6:23
Yeah. Well, your sister is also high up in our industry as well as well. Your mom came you did you want to tell us your story? Where did tell us your hair story? And, and I always ask that at the beginning, how the heck did you get into hair? And then? And what’s that whole family relationship? How did that get you into it? It’s

John Mosley 6:45
funny, Chris, I never wanted to do hair. I bingo

Chris Baran 6:49
me either. That wasn’t my goal. I want to be a mechanic.

John Mosley 6:52
I didn’t know what I wanted to, of course, like, I’m an African American kid, I’m 663 100 pounds. I was like, Yo, I want to be an athlete. And that’s the majority of what the story is for most African Americans. And so, but I got to college, and I was playing college football. And I decided, You know what, this ain’t for me. So I lied. I told my mother like, Hey, Mom, I want to go to barber school, three days when I was enrolled

Chris Baran 7:17
in barber school. Moms don’t, don’t lie to moms, because they’ll make it happen. Right.

John Mosley 7:25
And so I’ve already my sister Lilly, who’s in the industry, she’s part of the Union. She does a lot of TV shows and a lot of movies, and stuff like that. And so I had that kind of element in the house where she studied at Vidal Sassoon in London at the age of 18. My mom’s sintered air. And so I kind of seen different elements of the industry, my mom, of course, Doris mostly been in the industry for forever. And so I got the educator element from my mother. And then I see my sister doing the Hollywood element. And so I kind of mirrored my career in the middle of both of them. Instead, I could go either way, I can lean on both sides. And that’s exactly what I did. I was delivering education while working on TV shows and movies and working with the top of the top a list celebrities, and literally how I gotten there. It was a total accident. So mothers also fathers, if your kid like some time, find the truth and like find the Destiny within that life sometime. Yeah,

Chris Baran 8:24
well, what would you say? First of all, I want to before I forget this, I want, you know, don’t send it out right now over the air. But I want personally to get your mom’s email or contact, just so on behalf of the industry. I can thank her for everything that she did. That’s number one.

John Mosley 8:44
But definitely Rob. But

Chris Baran 8:47
number two is you said something really important there. But when you’re when a parent is out there, and a kid come says I want to go to beauty school, your mom jumped at the chance. And yet we have this stigma in our industry that you’re not going to be you’re not going to earn you’re not going to be anything just because you’re picking hair. What would you say? What would you John Mosley say to that parent? If that parent said, What the heck are you picking here for?

John Mosley 9:17
I would say simple. I’ll just tell the parent go read some of our textbooks. In our textbooks, we cover everything from finances, to management, to leadership to carpentry to electricity, the nerves, like we learned so much. And we have the most diverse textbook in any education program. And and then I go back and say okay, well, if you want your kid to be a doctor or lawyer, we all know that a lawyer is on a retainer for 2500 maker only do so much into that 2500 is up when I’ve been on set, I don’t make $10,000 In two days without a retainer. So instead of instead of finding the Negative in our industry and tuck telling the kid not to do something that they could be happy in and I pick a flourish and go support that, go push that. And not even just that, look at the opportunities that your kid may have coming into the beauty industry, you could walk into this door of one cosmetology school, one barber school nail tech St. But once you get in that door, you have one piece of paper that says what your specialty is that you went to school for? When really, I always said this, and I’m on record saying that I think that paper should never say what our specialty is. And it should say entrepreneur, because you have an opportunity to now be a product manager, product creator, marketing director, education director, the school owner, like salon owner, you have so many different opportunities, where once you go into a four year college, higher education, you pay two $300,000, and you graduate with this bill that you got for the rest of your life. Now you’re stuck, and who’s to say I want to do that. But the parent forced you to sit back and say, I got to do this to make my parents happy. I’m gonna tell the parents allow your kid to find out what makes them happy, so that they could be the best version of themselves and just support it.

Chris Baran 11:23
Yeah, I think that, uh, first of all, that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to have you on here, because you have all this, these incredible nuggets that you give, I mean, there’s more, there’s more to hair, art than hair, you know, because there’s, you know, I think people that are in our position in, in the standing of the beauty industry has so much bigger responsibility than just teaching somebody how to cut color, finish, etcetera. You know, there’s more to it than that. There’s no one I have a very strong thing about I’m very finicky when people call people, mentors, etc. I mean, my stance is, you know, you don’t, you know, your football. So you know, you pick a coach, right? You’re, I’m sorry, you pick your mentors, but your coach is assigned to you, you know, your coach was there. And your coach can eventually be a mentor. But he’s got to earn that right. And so when people talk about I’m starting a mentoring program, no, you don’t you start a coaching program. It’s that person that can choose you as a mentor. But the point is, is that whatever you want to call that, we have the ability to inspire, as fire, or destroy, just by the words that we use. And I think that no, and I’ve been I’m always listening to the stuff that you say, and I, what I love is, is while I would never put you as a preacher, as in, and I’m not talking in a bad way, because there’s always when they say you got to tell and give with love. And then you can preach where you’re teaching as a preacher. But you have that more of that. That preacher style where you say that if you want this, you can get it and I’m your supporter, and I can do that. Where did that come from? And how did how is that was that always in the back of your mind? Was it? Is that what you were you’ve always been telling us a little bit about where that came from.

John Mosley 13:34
It just come from being a natural leader. I was born. I was born a leader when I when I came out the womb, my mom nicknamed me King. And so, you know, I don’t know, the power of the tongue is really, really strong. And so when my mom called me King, I just, I think every situation I get into I have the ability to lead but also have the ability to follow. And for me, I followed so much and I understand so much. And I know when to step in and lead and I know when to ask cannot lead and if to be able to have that in your back pocket to know like, you know, I’ve dug through the trenches, I dug deep you know, I’ve been in a position where the industry tried people in the industry or you know, situation to try to blackballed me. And, and I fought through that. And I’ve been in situations where I wasn’t respected because I don’t always go with the grain. And if somebody comes to me with an agenda, you better tell me your agenda before I find it out. Because once I find, then I’m not you know, so is and

Chris Baran 14:41
to be sorry, just to back that up a second to be clear. When you’re talking to agenda you’re not talking about at nine o’clock at 10 o’clock, etc. You’re talking about what’s the real reason what’s the what’s the questions behind the question, What’s the reason behind the reason why you’re talking to me? Of course, is it better be? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

John Mosley 14:58
It’s some Originally, because a lot of artists go through that, but they, they don’t have the awareness, our sense of knowing that’s what’s happening, where for me, it’s like, no, I’m looking for that. And when I find it, I would have much rather you told me what it was, and work or do something different. And so just by going through all of that, I think I found my voice. I found my voice in leadership. And that’s why I always say, Now, I don’t want to be a motivational speaker, because motivation come and go, and motivation to leave you broke. But if being impactful speaker impact lasts forever, named McCarthy, think about a car crash where you got whiplash next to her, that was hesitant, the force and impact that that collision made. So anytime I opened my mouth, I want to make an impact. I want this to live with you. I don’t want you to get sucked into motivation. Because, you know, everybody went to the gym January one. But how many people are still in the gym?

Chris Baran 15:57
Yeah. Yeah, motivation is, as we all know, is it’s very short lived. It’s mended can do something, but it’s very short lived. I want to I want to jump back to here because you say so many things that I’ve already got notes here that I want to talk about. But I’m gonna go back to you had that nickname from the beginning of King. And, you know, I’m telling some people you can would that mean? Well, what’s that going to do to your attitude, etc. But yet you have this moniker. I don’t even know what that word means. But let’s just say nickname that that says the the know the popular nobody. So how now? So tell me the revelant? Or how did the the king to popular nobody? What how did that shift happen in there? What was that?

John Mosley 16:52
The king was just how my family treated me. My mom wouldn’t let people touch me, she wouldn’t let like, you know, it was just she treated me like a king. And she wanted everybody else to respect me as such. And that was just me growing up as a kid. But then the whole popular nobody thinks started because I got in this industry. And I was like, You know what, I’m gonna be the barber, JM. And that’s the first thing I started with. And then that back in, and I said, I can’t grow. If I’m just a barber. Nobody will look past me as a barber. And I said, I gotta come up with something else. So I just set quiet for a little bit. And then I started doing a lot of work on some celebrity stuff. photoshoots and things like that. And I never opened my mouth about it. The people closest to me, the family closest to me, knew when and so one day one of my family members, it was like, Hey, I’m at the mall. And you know, your work is everywhere. You kind of like a popular nobody. And I was like, That’s it. Because that’s my true character. Even still, to this day. You don’t know what I’m doing until it’s already done. And I think that’s the another thing that I got in my back pocket. That’s super power to me. And so it just became the brand popular nobody. And if you look at everybody that I have around me, we all kind of carry that same mindset. It’s like, I posted a video yesterday where I said, I don’t harbor feelings. I harbor success.

Chris Baran 18:17
Interesting, expand on that a little. Because

John Mosley 18:19
people get caught up in their feelings. That’s where you know, you make emotional decisions, your rational decisions, and that’s all driven inland. And so for me, I don’t want to harbor no feelings good or bad. Or not. Hmm, yeah, I do I have, you know, things that I love about it. Of course. Am I satisfied with one? No, I want to do it again. I want to be one of the people that they said you know, he went one educator year he went barber the year maybe he’s gonna do educator to year again, because that’s just how I think, you know. So for me, I harbor success. I’m chasing success and that success on all levels. I do a lot of I do a lot of things really great. And so because I take it I’m like, I love a tapas menu, because I can just eat these small bites and continue to eat and continue to eat. But I’m done. I had a full meal. Yeah. And that’s the way my mind all things great. You’ll end up with big results. Yeah,

Chris Baran 19:21
that’s, that’s, that’s amazing stuff. I I take my hat off to you on that. And I I want I’m just going to jump back on that is that because I you know, there’s this there’s this thing I mean, you strike me as an A type, you know, a type just meaning that you know, that I’m always on what am I what am I going to do better and it’s funny, I was just with my coach. I know it was yesterday. And and I was talking about gotta make it better. Gotta make it better. Gotta make it better. And he was. He was saying that’s like that’s a command a mand phrase that you use on yourself that can build you up, or it can, can hurt you as well. And so you have to adjust and make sure you have the right command phrase that you use. And so he helped me alter an ultra mine. Because what we here’s what was happening as I would say, it’s gotta be better. So half of the time I either wasn’t getting stuff finished, because I was always trying to make it better never got done. And, and, and so on. And finally, he just helped me with it. Where were I rewrote my phrase to where it’s, instead of saying, I got to make it better, is I rewrote it to I deserve to choose when I can make it better. You see, because now now I’m not that that thing isn’t holding me hostage. Now, to be clear, that was one day ago. So. So it’s not necessarily ingrained in my brain yet. But I think just how we how we mentally prepare ourselves in life is such a huge factor in the fact of how we get success or not. much, how much do you put on mental fitness and mental? It? I don’t know about you, but I’ve been depressed in during COVID, et cetera, but like, what mental health and attitude and things? Where does that stand? And what what’s your feelings on that?

John Mosley 21:28
I’m 100% advocate for mental health. Because going through some of the stuff that I’ve been through in my career, my mental was torn down my, my thought of like, Yo, should I still be doing this was beat up. And so I took a lot of beatings. But you know, like I told you, I appreciate the bullshit that I went through, because it helped grow the grass that I’m standing on, you know. And it still to this day, if I don’t feel like waking up and doing something that day, I don’t do it. Because I know that mentally out of it, I just don’t have that in me to do. And I think a lot of people try to force the issue, even when they know and they feel it. Just take those days, take those breaks, you need it. Your your your body is telling you, your mind is telling you. It’s okay. Even though I wake up and I’m, I tell myself every day, I just want to be great. When people like what do you want to do, I just want to be great. Whatever great is in whatever facet, I want to be great in, I just want to be great. If I touch it, I want to be great at it. And so that’s just my standard for myself. And mentally I know if I want to be great, it’s days that I don’t feel great. I can’t think I’m gonna be great if I take that on. So I had, how to just say no to myself, and sit back, I tell my son all the time, you can lose to nobody or nothing, but only yourself. And if we lose to ourselves, we have to we have to figure out how do we conquer ourselves. And I feel like I’ve conquered myself knowing strengths and weaknesses, knowing how to get better when to get better. And understanding when you need a time out. You need a time up. Yeah.

Chris Baran 23:07
What would you say to those? You know, there’s plenty, you know, there’s people that are listening to they’re just starting on their career or their career. And they look up to John mostly, and they say, I want to be like that. And yet, there’s this thing in our industry that people say we got to say yes to everything. Yeah, that’s where you get your grounding. That’s where you get your push forward. What would be a couple of things that you would tell that that that young person just starting off in their growth of, of when and where and how to say no, what would you what would you say to them? What are things that John does that the parameters boundaries that you put on? Yes, and no. The

John Mosley 23:48
parameters and boundaries is this if it ain’t beneficial, it’s artificial. So when I look at any situation, I want to make sure that we’re all winning in this aspect. Not just who’s making the phone call to my phone, we got to win. We got to win together and that’s that’s the mindset it has to be beneficial instead of just artificial, you know, and if you’re coming up in this and of course early on in my career, I said yes to a lot of things. And away free haircuts. Yes. Am I still saying yes to things? Yes. But I also know when to say yes. And I also know when to gracefully bail out. Yeah.

Chris Baran 24:28
What’s it what’s kind of a boundary what like what’s the either the feeling or the thing that saying in the back of your head like what is it that you went okay, I’ve been saying yes, I’ve been saying yes, but what is it that when you say hell no I’m not doing that what what what are things that what’s the either the physical I’m not sure what it what’s what is it that inside John Mosley that says this is bullshit or this isn’t what I need to do or I put too much time in what is that?

John Mosley 24:55
It’s a feeling I get when I’m feeling used and not utilized. Ah, interesting, because a lot missing, a lot of us get used, but we never get utilized. And so that’s it when I feeling used, I know how to back away because what you’re using me for I could use it for myself.

Chris Baran 25:19
I love that I’m going to use that I will always give you credit, as we believe in doing but that’s great. You know, it’s interesting. I see an interest in this talking to you right now. You know, and I think it was, I can’t remember who it is. I’m not smart enough to come up with this stuff on my own. But I believe it was my coach that he was talking about the difference between being a perfectionist versus an infection list. And at first when I heard that when infection has to mean negatively, like I’m he said and they said no a perfectionist. Well, first of all, there is no such thing as perfection. You know, I believe I just heard this on the news the other day and Stephen Hawking said the world inside a misquoting but he said inside the world, the or the nature will not permit perfection. And he said if there was no such thing as if there wasn’t such a thing as imperfection, then none of us would exist. And again, I’m paraphrasing it, but that’s what he said. But so I think that there’s so many people in our industry that get caught up in perfection. Me too. Hi, my name is Chris, I’m a perfectionist. Or was and but my The reality is, is when I learned that you can be an factionist meaning and I see you as that your your vibe, your energy, the way that you do is infectious. And I see that I’m saying that more as a comment than a question. Because I you know, I think that there’s traits that come out in people I want to take it back is that I from what I understand you’re still working in the same salon. That when you started off now is that is that are you still at that salon? Is that because you were there for God knows how long?

John Mosley 27:00
Um, no, that that shop is still in Long Beach, California. I now live in Dallas, Texas, but

Chris Baran 27:07
that’s hard. That’s hard to commute.

John Mosley 27:11
But the day that I left barber school, yeah, I worked in that shop from the day I left barber school to the day I left California. Wow.

Chris Baran 27:20
And the end, what what made you leave California?

John Mosley 27:26
I don’t know. I’m really in tune with like nature. And I watch a lot of National Geographics and stuff like that. And I love fish. And one thing I know about fish tanks is that if there’s too many fish in the tank, there’s not enough oxygen in the tank for all the fish also stopped botrytis from And so growing. Yeah, they’ll

Chris Baran 27:47
always stay in the size. They’ll never get bigger than the size of the tank that they’re in. And

John Mosley 27:52
so for me, I had got to that point, I had done the celebrity thing I was doing the education thing I was working behind the chair I was I was doing everything that I possibly could and California just felt I had touch with so many people aspire to touch. I touched it early in my career. And I said you know what? I think it’s time for me to get out of this fish tank and let me get out into an environment where I can grow. And, you know, like I tell people all the time you either gonna be a dinosaur or you’re gonna be a sharp, sharp kid. I mean, grow as big as the ocean allows it and a dinosaur becomes extinct. So I felt like if I was I was gonna become extinct.

Chris Baran 28:34
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John Mosley 29:59
I’ve just a collective group of collaborative collaborating artists that, you know, nobody works for me. We all work together, we’re family, in the beginning, you know, and it was just started out with like a mentorship style thing and not wanting artists to be taken advantage of like I was in my career, and looking over contracts, giving them guidance. And then I realized, like, Hey, we got something here. And you know, my mother been in industry for so long. So I look at it, and I took the old school ways of being, before the word collaboration was the thing. That’s what happened in the older days. It wasn’t like you work for this company, and I worked for this company, we can’t talk, are we not cool? It was like, No, all the old school artists collaborated together, they would love being on stage together. And so I kind of, I kind of fostered that energy. I doing that I just came up with this amazing group of talented artists, young artists, and some older artists. And it was just one of those things where I said, Oh, I want to be a leader to this group. And I became a.

Chris Baran 31:12
John, is that when you say the artist is that still all within the hairdressing industry is that some people outside of that as well, what tell us a little bit more about that.

John Mosley 31:21
There’s been people in the beauty industry and outside the beauty from musician, musicians, to music producers to camera. Leadership doesn’t stop just because I’m in one field. And so I wanted to expand, like, if I’m a leader, and I’m gonna use my voice, as a leader, I’m not just going to use it in this one profession, or this one industry, I’m going to take my leadership to other places and see if I could duplicate the mindset that I have in other spaces. And I’ve successfully I’ve done it.

Chris Baran 31:54
I mean, that’s, that’s admirable, because I think, you know, and again, myself included, we always think about our, you know, I hate the word niche, but let’s just use it for this time sake, that it’s this path that you’re on. And I think that what I see the differences is you were most of us take this path of what we do what we feel our skill is, you know, talent wise in hair, and we keep on that path. Whereas you’ve widened that funnel on the other side of your funnel, instead of going from wide to narrow went from narrow to wide. And now you’re including other people outside of our industry. And you know, I’m having this mind awakening thought in myself right now, about how what we do in our hair industry and kind of leads back to what we’re talking at the very beginning when we’re talking to parents that talk about the capability and where you can go in this business is that all of the skills that you get in this business are so impactful in your life, that you can impact other people’s life just by, you know, like you do with that, whether it’s a musician or or a director, or whomever, you can use all of your things that have got and help them succeed in what they’re doing, just by passing that information on. Yeah,

John Mosley 33:11
when you think about our profession, we’re therapists, we’re psychologists, whereas we should have sociology degrees that go along with our, our license as well, we, we become business marketers, we become business managers, we become business owners, like, when you think about it, I’ve been able to experience all parts of this. And so I use all those superpowers to infect every part of anybody, I’ve come in contact with that I’ve feel like got good energy, and they want my energy. Yeah, well, currency. So one thing,

Chris Baran 33:47
let me ask you this, when, from what I always believe in reciprocity, you know, what’s the benefit for John, in doing that?

John Mosley 33:56
The benefit for John in doing that is the fact that I know I’m making my impact on the world that I choose to make an impact. I’m in the spaces, I’m showing up, and I’m helping people, I’m helping other people with their families, and I’m helping other people grow as humans. And you know, sometimes it’s not monetary, but sometimes it’s just rewarding to see somebody else smile, because you might know where they come from, you might know where they’re at, and just helping them grow.

Chris Baran 34:24
Yeah, it’s interesting. I was a kid I remember, you know, sitting in as a kid, you know, it just so you know, if you’re a kid to me as a merely because of age, but I can remember sitting in classes where they were, you know, and it was more personal development classes when they’re talking about leaving a legacy, et cetera. And they always talked about and they did exercise what they say, if you were if you had to write what was written on your own tombstone, when you were laid to rest is what would the rest of the world want to know? about what would you want the rest of the world to know about you, because it was written there in a quick short sentence. And I was thought that was really stupid, you know, I just went, that’s a really dumb thing. And then you get older, and then you start thinking about the legacy and way you would want people to remember you. When that time Keynes comes, let’s call it 100 years from now, hopefully. But when John Mosley is laid to rest, and people are going to visit that site, what would you want written there that people knew us?

John Mosley 35:35
Impactful pillar?

Chris Baran 35:37
Wow, give me some more. I mean, you don’t have to have that written there. But, but give me more on that.

John Mosley 35:44
Because, you know, a pillar is a is a strong foundation that holds the weight of a lot. And so, we live, we carry so much weight on our shoulders, and we have so many different things that we go through. And so for me to be that pillar. I’m a pillar for my family. You know, my pillar for my external family. I’m a pillar for this industry. I’m a pillar in the community. I’m a pillar. And so you know, the other word that I love is goat Rilla. Because everybody says, I’m a gorilla and a goat. So I guess I’m a

Chris Baran 36:27
goat Rilla Rilla.

John Mosley 36:31
I think the thing about what I would want people to say is a little bit of that, all of that, because I do in competition, I doing body, all those things. It’s not a person that hasn’t come across me and said that, you know, I try to help.

Chris Baran 36:49
Yeah. Yeah, and I think there’s, you know, as much as I’m not keen on the word try. But I think when you’re talking about the aspect that you are, and when all I can do is try to help because, you know, if it’s, I’m going to try to be more successful, well, then that’s my responsibility, I should be taking that on. But when you’re going to try to help other people, our good friend, I’m not sure if you know me, and if you don’t, you should get to know him. His name is Chris moody is out of the UK. I know, you know, Steven, Steven moody, who, but he is Stephens brother. And, and he’s one of my business partners. And we talk about as an educator on stage. And this is where it kind of ties in with when you say I can try to help you, but it’s your job to be take that what I’m gonna give you and you need to use it. I believe it was Chris that coined this phrase that said, I can teach you, but I can’t learn you. I know the grammatically, it doesn’t make sense, or it’s not correct. But it’s I think it’s, I can teach, you can teach you and I can teach, people can listen, but they have to take it on in order to be able to learn, right? So I can teach, but you have to learn. You’ve got to do something about it after. And that’s what I liked about what you said is that normally when I’m not big on the word try, I love the fact that you put it into that saying, I can try to help the world grow, because you can try all you want, but they have to take it on, they’ve got to do something with them. And hopefully, as the pillar that you are, they’ll take that message on. I think that was that was truly profound. Yeah,

John Mosley 38:27
I look at it like, you know, we see so many people, especially now on the internet, talk about hey, I can make you a six figure stylist, I can make your six. You’ll never hear me tell somebody that I can make them anything. And the reason why is because you might not be willing to work the way I was willing to work to get to where I’m at. Yeah. And try to help you. Yeah. You to go do that work.

Chris Baran 38:51
angle angle. What, what? What pushes you, John human? What pushes you to that? I mean, because we’ve been talking a lot about the success and about where you want to go. And I think we see the drive. But what’s the push?

John Mosley 39:14
The push is just my family. I got a lot of people that depend on me.

Internal, that’s the push. But then the push is knowing that I give somebody else hope. Knowing that I give somebody else. A person that they could look at and say Yo, I could you could do it, I could do it. So I think that’s what pushes me in, you know, the beauty industry. If you can’t get pushed by them, something’s wrong, because they’re coming out. They’re coming out with way more creativity. So I always say if us as the older generation of our industry Can’t find a way to collaborate and listen to the new generation. They have some great things and they have some great ideas. But we have that wisdom that come through age and experience. So, down and conversate together, just imagine how powerful our industry could be. Yeah.

Chris Baran 40:17
Yeah, it’s interesting, John, because I’m sure you hear it everywhere you go to is that all the salon owners that I talked to, and the people that I’m talking to in the industry, there’s this I’m not gonna maybe it is a divide, I don’t know. And I hearing from salon owners, I can’t find staff. I can’t, you know, when they come in, they don’t want to work. They want life balance, life, life balance, they don’t want to work 40 hours a week, they don’t want to work five days a week. And, and I, you know, I’ve been just professing, okay, well, then remember, everything changed, you know, and everything changes. But literally, whatever it was three years ago, everything changed dramatically with COVID. All of a sudden, everybody started to take a bigger look at themselves in their lives. And I’m sure you did as well as I did. But here’s what I think that has to happen. Our industry right now has to have a big huge shift in its thinking, it’s never going to die. But the owners that don’t shift their thinking, are going to lose. And and I think that, you know, look at if you’re, if people don’t want to work 40 hours a week, great. Doesn’t mean you don’t hire them, hire them, but get them. When do you want to work. And if I can operate Think about it this way. I think if we could take some of the flexibility, maybe is the word not the right word that you have with independent with businesses that set up businesses for for independent operators, they’re gonna say, Look at here, I’m going to rent out this space, I’m going to rent out the space. I’m not I’m not saying that commission people, those people should do that. What I’m saying unless they want to, all I’m saying is look at you’ve got so many chairs, I can be opened so many times, all at my job as a business owners to create jobs leader that John Maxwell said it your job as leaders to create jobs. So if you can say, I’ve got X amount of hours in the day, and I can be open 567 days a week, and I have people that can fill those slots, I’ll find people that want to fill those slots that are willing to work those times be happy with it, and put them in those slots. That’s That’s all I’ve got. That’s just one way and yes, is it? It’s a different thinking, Am I going to probably upset some people by saying it may be so but we’ve got to change. You know, it

John Mosley 42:47
goes back to like I said, you know, Dinosaur Shark, which one you gonna be angle angle of 24 hours, if somebody doesn’t want to work five days, but they’re willing to give you 312 hour days? That’s the same equivalent if they work hard enough, and they’re gonna work hard enough. So yeah, like, let’s find creative ways. And to be honest, if I was a business owner that I got 20 People that only want to work three or four days a week, I’m gonna find it 20 People in their cars, you’re still going to maximize the space, you’re not. But it’s that it’s that you got to have the mentality shift and coming to the table with the generation that saying, we want this going back to how you asked me about mental health owners mentally driving myself crazy fight. Yes, the way the ocean is flowing. Back the current, so you got to figure out how to swim in it. But so many people drown because why they fight the current? Yeah. So it’s like, let’s, let’s make this understanding happen, that let’s sit down at the table. Let’s figure it all out together. And let’s make our industry the best that it could possibly be with creativity with the workforce. Chris, I was just in Washington, DC speaking on Capitol Hill day walk in those halls, talking about gainful employment, talking about the domestic violence issues, talk about so for that, you know, talking about the 150% bill, but I’m in it. I didn’t Tana Arbor on Hill day, you know, and see, I seen owners that oops and barbering schools that are trying to protect the trade, but those type of things we got to learn about we got to know about. So it’s like, if owners stop fighting the stylists and start finding out how their business will be affected by bills that’s getting passed and dive into that. You’ll have a great community inside of your space. Yeah.

Chris Baran 44:51
And I think the worst side of that is, if you don’t say nothing, then if you don’t say nothing to Capitol Hill, you about what’s going on right now, then shame on you if it does happen, because it’s up to you to say something. I think that’s yeah. And

John Mosley 45:10
it’s the same with the texture change. You know, it shouldn’t be it shouldn’t be L’Oreal stepping in and making a petition happen to get education on the State Board test to then make it forced to be taught into the schools that should never have to happen. But now that it is, I’m glad that I’m a part of it. I’m glad that because that’s part of my legacy, I get to go artists that say, Oh, we’re gonna stand up and support this and rock this out to make the change, because 65% of our beauty industry right now have textured hair, or 65% of our world has textured hair. So what is it going to be 10 years from now that number is gonna shift and it ain’t gonna go down, it’s only gonna go up. So it’s like, let’s make this happen. And texture is not defined by your skin tone.

Chris Baran 46:08
You know, it was it was intra and actually, I don’t know the word I’m gonna use the trade I was at what is not that I was, was a shocked or was I? I don’t know what it was. But somebody, I was talking to somebody that about hair the other day. And they looked at me and obviously, you know, I, you know, you know, I’m the Germanic boy with the blue eyes and the gray hair, etc. And they asked me, Well, do you do textured hair? Have you ever know, they said in other words, it was said to me? Have you ever done textured hair like a challenge? Well, of course I have its hair. It’s just a different texture. And I was shocked by maybe that’s the word I’m looking for. I was just shocked that I was asked that question. But I think it tells us something of a cultural shift. That has to happen. So people in our industry asked me that question, what’s Capitol Hill thinking? Right,

John Mosley 47:07
Capitol Hill don’t even know. You know, but it takes it takes our voice, it takes our industry that people are sent it to present us and speak up for us. And all of that. Yeah.

Chris Baran 47:21
John, you know, I just wish I had like, another hour with you here. Maybe we need to come back and talk more about this at a later date. But I’ve got a couple things I want to go through just with our what I call a rapid fire. But I just before we go. Before we go into that I just wanted to like I’d like people to know, as they see John, that’s up there right now. But is there ever been setbacks in your career, the rough patches, the, you know, I always put it this way, because maybe I’m just the only one that thinks about this when, when have a rough patch, and I want to go home and put my thumb in my mouth and put my walkway up? And you know, and cry myself to sleep at night. But if you ever had any of those patches in your life?

John Mosley 48:05
Yes, of course, I think that’s what allows me to tell us the stories that I’m able to tell so well, because you can’t go through things without overcoming, you know, and not being able to have a story. And that’s one of the things my mom taught me early in my career. She said, the reason why you will be great is because you’re not afraid to tell your story.

Chris Baran 48:28
Yeah, what is one of those stories?

John Mosley 48:32
One of those stories is, you know, helping, helping develop something that everybody in the world uses are not everybody in the world, but a lot of people use, and never once really getting the light shed on me for that. That was kind of tough. And because that would have showcased my brain a long time ago. Right? That going through the pitfalls of being used and not utilized, you know, patients, being somebody who you know, me walking through and saying, let me make situations better not just for me, but for everybody else around me. Yeah, I’ve been in companies where I asked him, don’t treat me better than anybody else. Just because of what I’ve accomplished and what my name is. treat everybody the same. But that message getting turned around basically, and getting thrown back in my face and people turning their back on me because of the fact that they heard something else and it’s like, Come on, man. Like, if you know me, you know me, I’m gonna stand for us as artists. I’m gonna fight for us. I’m gonna do the things that because, you know, when you don’t treat artists equally sometime and I get it, you know, because of our careers, sometimes we get a different type of treatment. And you know, it’s okay. But then sometimes it’s not okay. Yeah. And I stand for it, I stand for it. And so sometimes that that has been my downfall and just trying to be the person that was willing to fight and put his career and put his neck on the line. For others that didn’t respect it or appreciate

Chris Baran 50:34
all that told me I mean, first of all, thank you for the stories. I just am not about validation or anything too. It just is. The one thing that I have learned at my advanced years is that the people that are jealous of you will always make up stuff, whether it was there and true or not. So I apologize for those people that that did that.

John Mosley 50:53
What it is and like I always say you’ll never find a hater doing better than you

Chris Baran 51:01
use that one to hold on one second. Never find a hater. That’s do it better than you I absolutely love that. Doing better than you got to know how to rewrite that right after John. We’re right at the rapid fire here. So I’m just gonna throw some stuff out here quick one word answers to it or whatever comes to your brain if it’s a sentence or whatever. Okay, what turns you on in the creative process? Life what stifles it. Yeah, like being

John Mosley 51:36
able to see the world like I’m big into videography. I’m big into photography and so probably the world I’d take my camera everywhere and just walk in the cities at night put my earphones on and shut off all the outside world noise and just cold capture art. Got

Chris Baran 51:53
it? What stifles creative process for you

John Mosley 52:01
that’s a good one what stifles creative process Oh Is life

Chris Baran 52:10
the crap side right?

John Mosley 52:11
The bad side of life too was stopped.

Chris Baran 52:16
What is What are the things in life that you dislike the most? Not necessarily from our industry but just in life as a whole things that you disliked the most ignorance and what he loved the most in life people most difficult time in your life

John Mosley 52:38
right after winning NAHA on an extreme high. My mother had a severe car accident that could have took her life away from me. And weeks after that accident my dad had a heart attack that could have took my father away from me so winning NAHA and having both with me but then in within a four week timeframe, I could have lost both of my parents so that that put me in a space where I was very depressed and I just I just tried to shine and smile on the outside but I was I was bleeding out on the inside.

Chris Baran 53:11
Well, I got your back so if you ever have those moments ever again, you’ve got my number even call me just let’s talk about a thing that you dislike the most about our industry

John Mosley 53:28
influencer versus educator.

Chris Baran 53:31
What do you love the most about our industry

John Mosley 53:38
what I love the most about our industry is that we are industry that you know showing that we accept all

Chris Baran 53:45
got it. Proudest moment your life

John Mosley 53:53
being a father,

Chris Baran 53:55
living person that you admire the most.

John Mosley 54:00
I live in person that I admire the most. That’s a hard one because I admire so many people for different reasons. So just

Chris Baran 54:09
the one that comes just one we know there’s many just the one that comes to the top your brain right now.

John Mosley 54:16
I have to say probably my mother because she went from picking cotton to being a pillar in the industry. Beautiful.

Chris Baran 54:25
A person that you wish you could meet living or dead.

John Mosley 54:29
Personally, I wish I could meet live in Oh, that’s living or dead Kobe.

Chris Baran 54:38
Oh, wow. I want to be a fly on the wall and that happens. Something that people don’t know about you.

John Mosley 54:48
But I love to cook and I used to play the piano. Oh,

Chris Baran 54:54
wow. a month off. Where would you go? What would you do

John Mosley 54:59
it I didn’t country somewhere, probably I don’t. I want to go to Africa. I want to go to South Africa. I want to go to Africa. Just, you know, like I said, I’m big on the gorillas. I’m big on the you know, something like that.

Chris Baran 55:16
Greatest, your greatest fear

John Mosley 55:20
not being a great father and husband and impact. I feel you.

Chris Baran 55:29
Favorite curse word?

John Mosley 55:30

Chris Baran 55:36
favorite comfort food

John Mosley 55:39
or food?

Chris Baran 55:40
Foods. And if you could change one thing about yourself, what would it be?

John Mosley 55:51
I would have to say, and it’s gonna sound crazy, but probably my heart some time. Oh,

Chris Baran 55:56
interesting. You could have one do over in your life, what would it be memorable? None of them? Are the last one. Well, first of all, before I ask you that, if people want to get a hold of you, and if they want to book you in to do something for them? Where would where would they go? How would they get ahold of you?

John Mosley 56:19
So that could find me on Instagram popular underscore nobody you could DM me there, I do respond. I do use social media to be social. My my booking phone number is 817-800-1822. So you could call or text that number to get information about booking me and my website? The popular nobody.com.

Chris Baran 56:50
And if you had one wish for our industry, what would that be?

John Mosley 56:57
But we all just tighten up.

Chris Baran 57:00
Love it. Love it. John. I said at the beginning that we’re friends about to be happening and I just think it just happened. I have the utmost respect for you. I can’t wait. The next time down in Texas I’m we’re hooking up and we’re gonna go and out and have a nice meal and whatever Libration we want so I can’t wait for that to happen. This.

John Mosley 57:24
Appreciate it. And when you’re down here in Texas, we’re gonna get some barbecue for sure. Oh,

Chris Baran 57:29
yeah, baby. All right, John. It has been a pleasure and honor. Thank you so much for giving up your time to share with the people that are out there. Thank

John Mosley 57:37
you. Thanks for having me. And I look forward to what’s coming. What’s coming. Yes.

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