ep90 – Michael Cole

This week’s Headcase has accumulated over 40 years of experience as a stylist, manager, executive chain director, and multiple salon owner. The key to Michael Cole’s success is his unique ability to observe and predict trends in digital marketing and management, and translate them into systems for salons to achieve dramatic growth.

In this episode we go back to the beginning and learn how Michael got to the place he is now and how he found his voice in the industry.

• Michael talks about his very first job at the age of 14
• Chris and Michael discuss growing up in a low income family 
• ‘I couldn’t write fast enough’ Michael speaks about his first time seeing Jim Rowland speak
• Michael has the ability to make people laugh. Chris asks ‘where did that come from?’
• Michael talks about his teaching style and how it’s evolved over time
• Chris and Michael discuss the difficulty of feeling like you’ve done something wrong, and how to deal with it
• ‘Most embarrassing thing that’s ever happened to me’. Michael tells the story of a particular event that happened on stage
• How would you describe Michael Cole? Chris asks Michael this personal question
• Michael talks about what he would like to see in the industry

Complete Transcript

Chris Baran 1:40
Michael, I’ll tell you, my friend, we’ve known each other for years. And, you know, I’m just super jacked about having you on here. Not only, you know, because I think we’ve been friends. But I think that, like everybody else that’s out there, I have learned so much for you. And actually, when I went to start my business up as my, my online thing, per se, I can remember having many conversations with you about it. And, and I’m eternally grateful. And I know, there’s lots of people that are out there that are eternally grateful for what you’ve done for our industry. But I want to start off with just, you know, taking like a, I don’t know why somebody that wouldn’t know you, no matter where you’re from, and our industry, etc. And if they don’t, at the time that they know, and they’ll know your accolades from what we talked about in the intro, but the AI for all those people, I think it’s really important that they know kind of where we came from our roots, etc. And, you know, I know for me, I, you know, I started off, you know, I wasn’t a hairdresser first people talk to me, what was your first job, and while it was almost my first job, my first job was being a delivery boy, for the red and white, red and white grocery store in Humboldt, Saskatchewan, central Canada, and l was the owner and he knew my mom and my mom put a pitch in for me to be the delivery boy and and he sent me in for a she said, Do you need to go over and have an interview and or to meet them. And I went over and he said, Well, I want you to grab a couple of these things and bring them up to the front. And in those days, they had that roundabout, Deeley that you know, where your counters, they didn’t have that conveyor belt that went vertically was looking around the circle. And, and, and when I was coming around, he told me to put the stuff down, he was saying, Here’s how they do it, you put it down on here, it’ll go around, etc, and then come around to the front, etc. So when I put the stuff down, the this, the rotating table came around. And I think there was whatever a five or $10 bill that was on there. And I guess it had been underneath. And so I pass it over to Alan, I said, Look, you know, this, this money came out. And, you know, I just want to make sure you got it. And he’s never said anything. And he said well, you’re hired and found out from my mother later that he tests he does with everybody. And if you keep the money, you don’t get the job screen but if you do so, I mean, you know, while while some of I want to know what were some of your first job jobs if there were before hair, and sometimes we always get we get the learning lessons that are really super valuable to us even though it didn’t come from my industry. So I guess that’s my first point to you is what were those points like for you?

Michael Cole 4:37
Yeah, well, what first of all, great story and you know, when I when that the $5 bill part, I went, Okay, so is he gonna do they’re gonna take the bait or do the right thing, right. And, you know, the rest is history. The memory that came up in me is I think, you know, back forever ago, when we get our first job, and it was working out kind of a McDonald’s type of hamburger joint, I was, I think 1313, maybe 14. And in those days, you really legally couldn’t work until you were 16. And I, you know, very, very impoverished. And so I can’t remember, you know, my parents said, go get a job, or I just felt compelled to get one. And I could see that I am either going to tell him, I’m 16 and get the job, or Tom, I’m 14, and they’re gonna say, you don’t get the job. So I, I filled out the application, and I didn’t even have a social security, I got a social security card, and I think I put 16 so I could get the job because I got the job. And youngest kid on the you know, the deal, and that was my on ramp into working. And I go, come back and look back on those days. And of course, you know, 69, many moons ago. But that’s what came up. As I was listening to your story. And I’ve never told that part of my story before. It’s always you know, you start somewhere in the hair thing, but my first job was 1313 or 14.

Chris Baran 6:23
Yeah, I find it really interesting, because I hear from so many people that, like everybody says that it’s a one on one market, McDonald’s, that was some of the best business experience that they got starting off because they they really could see systems put into place and how that all worked. did that. I don’t know what the burger place was. But that was that. Did you get to see that or envision that when?

Michael Cole 6:45
Yeah, well, I you know, how transparent your Do you want me to be? I got a, I just really got off to a bad start. My my father rest his soul. I don’t know that he made more than 100 bucks in any given weekend in flight. So quit school, very, very young. And so I, there was always he was one of these guys, you know, the harder you work the behind her you get and the more you’re making, the more they take. And you have to really and I you know, parents are God on the, in the ears of their children. So I, I think the first thing I said on the first day of my job was so like, am I going to get a break? You know, like, because I knew you get a 15 minute break? Because, you know, and so I was it was not a good start. And really, that really was my attitude up until, you know, I met my first coach, you know, that definable moment where you you’re, you meet somebody, and as, as a result, you know, the trajectory changes. Yeah, you know, and I call those you know, and so, and he got my attention, first of all, by telling me his story. And I was moved by that. And then later on, you know, when he became became my coach, and I told him, I said that, when you told me your story, there was something that happened to me. And he goes, you know, what, when my first coach told me their story, and I think he referred to it as a light bulb moment where, when, when we wake up, from somebody telling us their story, they’re going okay, once upon a time, this is how my life used to be, it was really crappy. And then you know, we have that moment something happened, the light bulb goes off, and then the trajectory changes, and then they, we share what our life is like today. So it’s like, what it was like, what happened, what it’s like today, and that’s the, you know, the story of success. But when when he told me his story, what his life used to be like, That’s how my life had been like real time now, like, as in meeting you this morning, and then what happened to him and his story, and he woke up. The I was waking up, as he was telling me his story. And then when he told me how his life had been ever since he was giving me a picture of what my life will be like, if I stay awake and you know, get on the beam and basically, sign on to the value proposition, which was, let me teach you for six months, nine months. And if what happened to me, happened to you. Here’s what you can look forward to. And I said to him, What do you what if that doesn’t happen? I was a little bit cynical. And he said, Well, if it doesn’t happen, you can always go back and pick up where you left off when you met me. And that value proposition made, it’s it was like, that was all. Okay. Yeah, let’s go. And the rest is history.

Chris Baran 10:21
You know, Michael, you said something there. That was I think it really hit home with me when you’re talking about, about your dad. And my mom was my mom was a hairdresser. But I, you know, I was raised as a single was from by single mom. You know, we had enough to get by, but we never really had tons we didn’t have. I can’t say we were effectively super poor. But we certainly were not rich. And we but we had lots of other good things that happen in our family. But I guess the point that I’m getting at here is I can so relate to what you’re talking about. Because I remember coming out of school, per se, getting ready to go into work, and to find a job. Because I think sometimes in your upbringing, you tend to take on the mentality of where you were, like, you know, I was thinking, middle class family, probably lower to middle class family, and, and didn’t have a lot of money. So you weren’t, look, I wasn’t looking at going to anything, I sure as hell wasn’t going to go to college and have four more years of, of stuff that I hated doing. And I think that that carried through and it took, I don’t know, if it took it took me a lot longer to get away from scarcity. And into a world of abundance. It almost took me, I’m guessing, I’m gonna take just put a number on it 20 years. And because I didn’t have a coach, a mentor that came up to me right away. So what I’m seeing is the escalation that happened. Was there an escalation? Was it an immediate spark? What happened?

Michael Cole 12:14
Yeah, Chris, this is why I just so in joy, kind of geeking out with you about once every few years, you and I bumped into each other and we reminisce we, but what came up as I was listening to you was once we wake up, and we see what’s possible, and okay, we’re in, of course, there’s learning going on, you know, what’s the next skill set that I need to put in the wheelhouse, but you’re either before while that’s going on, it’s unlearning. I had to unlearn. Let go of ideas that made perfect sense to me, until I kind of woke up and said, okay, if I’m really gonna move from whatever we want to call it, scarcity, to abundance of the bat to the 20, you know, from the many to the few that I’m going to get, I need to let go of thinking about life in this way. And I really, what really, really motivated me, in retrospect, was because I grew up so impoverished, I wasn’t so much clear on what I wanted to be, but I knew what I didn’t want to be and I didn’t want to go to my life. impoverished, it’s like, okay, if I could just have enough where I didn’t have to settle for I raised on back then they call it welfare. So like, I needed glasses, and you go to the store, and you know, there’s a whole bunch of glasses that I’d love to have. But no, you can’t have those. You go over there on that wall because you have a card. And it’s like, oh, I but I don’t like those glasses. It’s like, well, I know what you need to see. So you know, pick a pair, and you live with it. You just kind of live with the limitations that go with. And so what that for coach helped me to see as you know, you don’t it doesn’t have to be that way. Yeah, that you have just as much potential and right an opportunity to have a great life. You just need some coaching and let me coach you and if what happened to me happened to you. You’re going to you’re going to have a great life. And by the way, if it does happen, you’re going to feel grateful and when you come in, you know, thank me I’m going to say wonderful, I’m proud to you know, fight or flight but then pay it forward. Go ahead and keep paying it forward because in the process of paying it forward, as you know, we we become more of what’s getting us More so it just it continues to perpetuate

Chris Baran 15:05
you know, you you said something that sparked in my brain and this is where I think why we have such a great kinship is because you said glasses. And and I hadn’t even really thought about this in the scheme of things until now is that you know, whatever you call that person, that thing that talks to you all the time, you know, we have friends and everybody we’ll call it that little voice and I was asked one time to picture that little voice in because in quartered a mom, that little voice, you have to picture it, give it a name, and so on whatever your exercises to help you. And I remember when I had to visualize this, I had to give it a name. And I called it, Christopher because like, there’s only very few people that I allowed to call me Christopher because, you know, my mom, God bless her soul. Being a lonely only child of a Catholic family. I got every uncle’s Christopher Michael Charles Anthony Baron that was out there. So I hated that name, particularly because she would scream that at me if I was doing something wrong outside and Christopher Michael Charles Anthony Baron, get your ass in the house right now. And I knew was I was in for a weapon then. And so I never really liked the name. So when I had to give that voice or that little voice, a name and a picture, I always pictured him as Christopher and sitting on my shoulder. And Christopher always had flood pants on because we never could afford the pants that went all the way down in the new season. So as I was growing up, they they shrunk. And my glasses, I always kept breaking them. And they always broke right in the middle. And I had mom would tape them together. And we didn’t have krazy glue and that kind of thing. So they were always I always have white tape in between the two. And and that’s what I always remember is that me with those flood pants and those, those that wait tape on my glasses. And that the point is, is that while I was living in a place of scarcity that stuck with me. And that until I could get out of that frame of mind that I could be successful at something that stuck with me forever until I named it. Give it a give it a name Anna Anna, what it looked like, and then I could that I could be in control of it. So I’m Chris and I can control Christopher, you know, so that that really came out in my brain? Michael so look, we’re we’re kind of at that point where you had your coach, you’ve got your you’re transitioning now. So here now I know that you’ve you know, I, you know, you’ve told me in the past of some of your history, but so give us a little bit of an edge on your history where what sparked it like was, you know, my, some of my, my teachers and friends always talk about that there’s, you either fall into the business that you’re in, or it just happens, it falls on you. I mean, you just it presents itself to you. Where were you at? And how did you get in the industry and so on?

Michael Cole 18:09
Well, yeah, there’s lots of stuff I could talk about. But what just came up in this moment is I’m kind of being present with you. The pivot. So like, you know, I’m working with my teacher and things are going well. But basically what I was Monday through Friday, working behind the chair, and then on the on the weekends on Sunday. There’s a class somewhere and go in teach the class, but the class is hair cutting. It’s hairdressing. So I’m, you know, way back when did you know was in the business that you’ve spent your life in? And one? Oh, I don’t know, I probably, you know, eight 910 months into this, and I’m having the time of my life. And my teacher called me up and he said, You know, I’m going to this talk tonight at the Marriott Hotel. And there’s this guy, he’s come and he’s just going to talk and he’s a motivator. He and I, first of all, what’s that? Oh, he’s just coming. I think you’ll enjoy him. I’ve listened to him before and I just really enjoy him. And I said, Okay, so we he picked me up and took we drove to the Marriott with him. And this man that Jim Rowland who is passed on but he he had a brand for many, many, many years. He’s a he became one of my heroes, and I think this seminar started at seven and it went to like 830 or nine o’clock. But I was absorbed I, I couldn’t I couldn’t take I mean, this is 19 CFR 78. 70 So there is nothing except you know, you have a little piece to put in your writing and, and I couldn’t write fast enough, but every word I was hanging on to it. And so the deal is over and we’re on our way home and he saying he could tell that’s something happened to me because I was like, and he said, so did you enjoy Jim and I went, Oh, yeah, yeah, I really did. And so he dropped me off. And he had he said, Here is Jim’s tape. So during the break, he went and bought Jim Rowan six pack and back in those days do cassette tapes? And he said, and I said, what is that? He goes, Well, that that’s his entire talk. So I and I went, Okay. And I, you know, those days, you could listen to tapes in your car and but there was these like these little portables. And I just listened to the tapes over and over and over again. And I was so mesmerized that I, I would start to tape stop the tape right down because I wanted every word that he said. And I just listened to him over and over and and I found myself memorizing some of his stuff, just because I was so moved. And I even remember saying to Joe, my teacher, someday, I would like to just, that would be so cool to just be on the stage. And there was like, 400 500 people in there. Oh, my God, whoa, we’ll see, you know. And so I’m still doing demonstrations with haircuts and stuff, but I’m finding that I’m doing a haircut, I say one of a little soundbite of Jim Rowan’s talk, and people started, you know, either laughing or no went out. And so all of a sudden, I found myself saying more of Jim Rowan’s stuff and cutting less and talking more. And all of a sudden, people started building and, and one day, I thought, I wonder if I didn’t have a model to do. I wonder if I could do a half hour of this. And I did it. And it was like, boom, goes the dynamite to the 10th power. And that was when I began to transition. And I was always afraid, because I was really plagiarizing this man. I found though that over and sometimes somebody puts would kind of get confused, you know, gee, if I didn’t know any better, that sounds like Jim Rowan. And I would say, oh, yeah, he comes to all my stuff. And it was, it was, it was just amazing. And then what happened is the miracle was, I started finding my own voice in the talk, and I began more importantly, living, what I was learning from Jim, Jim became kind of a universal coach, I had my coach Coach, but I had these tapes, and I hung on to those tapes, until literally, they went out. So that was my on ramp, I should say, off ramp from being a technical educator into, you know, sales, motivational business. And that became my way of learning is, you know, okay, so what are you going to do for an encore? I’m going to go and see if there’s other Jim Rowan’s out there. Listen to them, and, and the rest is history.

Chris Baran 23:44
And so, where was I know, there was, I’m gonna bring up something here that that I think everybody that knows you for, at least from the start came from little off the top? Yes, you know, you had the little off the top. And I, you know, I don’t think that you may not have been the first one to have a book, you know, VHS tapes, or whatever, that were out there in our industry, but you were certainly among the first and I have that were the little off the top. What sparked that? Where did it come from? What was that? Was that information that you had always done? Did you start you say, Look, I need something and I’m going to build something now. And then that became something more and so on. How did that how did that whole thing?

Michael Cole 24:30
Oh, I just love thinking aloud. I mean, I haven’t recall the history. Nevermind shared it forever. Now, I’m speaking for a living. I’m more of a speaker than a teacher, but it’s working and all I know is people are giving me money. And it’s like, oh, so I knew that there was this man that would follow other people around and record what they did. And And then cut a deal with them that I’ll make these tapes, you sell them. And I’ll get I’ll get a bigger piece of it than I would if you just paid me to on the front end. And I didn’t have enough. I said, Okay. And so we you know, there were tapes and people started buying these tapes. And you know, the more you do a talk, you kind of fall into a rhythm. And it was all about how do you handle people? I thought, I wonder if you could be a sales trainer in the salon industry, as long as you hairdresser iced it, right, and made sure that it was from my own experience. And so to make a long story, less long that out of nothing, there were the tapes. And then I wrote down everything in the tapes. And I said to the guy that made my tapes, I wonder you think we should do a book. And he said, and I showed him all of these notes that I didn’t you know, they were like big stacks of paper. Because all my god, you put this in a book, give it to me, I’ll have my graphic designer. Yeah, and back in those days, you had to typeset and Keyline everything. And he was doing all this for free. And I would kept waiting for Okay, Michael, I’m gonna need to charge you. And I finally said, Jim, like, what do you How come you’re just doing this, he goes, I got to punch that if you if we can get this in a book, that’s going to be a big shift for you, you’ll sell a lot of books and a lot of tapes. And then it was so there was a partnership that was organically happening. And it that’s how I came out with the first book, he helped to kind of edit it and stuff. But everything was done bootleg, he was he just had a small little biz, and all of a sudden they have this book. And but I couldn’t, I don’t know how to write other than, you know, to speak practices speaking write down what you said. And then I had somebody that would edit it. And, and he did that and kind of you know, dotted the I’s and cross the T’s. And that got me into my first self publishing, I think the 8586 and

Chris Baran 27:23
I don’t throw anything away. And I bet you’re I have a bunch of them still here that I have. So if you’re ever looking for keepsakes, I know I had them but it’s going to cost here because I’m not giving them up. There’s something else I want to go on in here is obviously you you know when people see you, you’re a funny human being. And I think that when you can make somebody laugh during while they’re teaching, then the teaching becomes fun. And I noticed another thing about you is that you your animation of when you teach, you have this power of you know you can think of like Steam right? The comedian, deadpan dry humor, dead face. But you have the ability to make funny, funny comments. And then build it up even further by the way that you animate it with your face and your actions. And and where did that come from? Like, have you always been funny? Or did you find out one day? Oh, funny. Oh,

Michael Cole 28:39
well, you know, the universe is always conspiring to help us all and it you know, if you if you’re awake enough yet, maybe you can get through the sea while the sea is still being split by the universe before it closes on you. But i i My ambition. When I was in middle school, high school, I just I would watch a TV show like back in those days Johnny Carson. Yeah. And and comedians, and, you know, the Richard priors and, you know, way, way, way, way, way back and I just, I would fantasize, I wonder, gosh, if I it. Wouldn’t it be cool to be whether it was an actor, a comedian or whatever, and you know, then the voice Do you know, don’t be silly. There were some plays that were being you know, high school, the high school play. And I was just scared to death to try out. I remember being I think I was 16 and my dad let me use the car to go dry. To try out for the play at night and I’m in the high school parking lot. And I’m so afraid to get out of the car. I didn’t get out of the car. It was the odd couple. Right? And I was I was Gonna try for one of those. I, in my mind, I thought I bet I could get this part. But I didn’t do it because I was so afraid and end up driving, driving home and getting depressed. So now I’m in hairdressing. I’ve got your Jim Rowan was an entertainer. So I picked up a little bit. And I kind of got it in my style, my hero comedians, back in the 80s, Robin Williams was just coming in HBO had just launched, and you could watch and he was so funny and animated. And so that was him. So I would watch his thing and kind of imitate him and see, can I just put his eat, whether it’s facial expressions, jokes, one liners, and how do we how do i salon eyes this, then I started going to Zig Ziglar. And I really was never up. I like Zig Ziglar the way he could spin a phrase. But what really got me about Zig Ziglar is he would always be pacing the stage. And at that moment, he would stop and get down on one knee. And I started thinking, I wonder if I added that to the to the show. That night. I added it and the rest is history. And then that that was the time that that same guy that’s making audios from me. He’s got a video and he said, you know, you do all these little skits on stage. Have you ever? Why don’t we just do a video of you doing the skit, but you get dressed up in the persona. And I went, oh god, that’s two off the top for me. And he goes, Well, let’s just do it recorded. It won’t even we won’t even show the light of day. It’d be kind of fun. So I did that. And I got dressed up in these little characters and did it. And as he as I’m watching he goes, Michael, I think you got something here. If you were ever going to put that tape a little thing together, what would you call it? Panic in the parlor. And all of a sudden you got a video, and I’m really really embarrassed. It’s like I’m gonna get I’m gonna get creamed up here. People are gonna watch this video and they’re gonna go what is he crazy? And somebody walks up and they were laughing. And we started selling a lot of videos. So all of this stuff. It’s it’s any any so called successes, Chris that I’ve ever had, were not planned. They were, you know, a hunch. And if it wasn’t my hunch it was somebody else’s. Now, having said that, there were many times that I tried to plan something, okay, let’s go in for the kill. Went over, like, you know, a fart in church, it’s like, it just doesn’t work. So I just had to learn don’t pay attention to the universe. And if it looks like the universe is splitting the seed, go ahead and take a shot at it. Don’t overthink it. ready fire aim. Rather than, you know. Ready, aim, aim, aim, aim, aim. I should say Ready, aim, fire, no. ready fire aim. That’s it. That’s it, I’m getting so damn old. I can’t remember what I remember.

Chris Baran 33:22
You know, the, I want to go back and revisit on something you said before, because I want to make sure that this that gets out in the right way. Because you were talking about doing gym stuff. And that you were you know, and I’ve done that. I’ve done my bits where my teachers have taught me things, you know, your, you know, the same stuff that you got from Jim, Jim got from somebody else. And so on the that I think that anybody that’s thinking about doing what we do, is that sometimes you just the, you have to copy first. You know, I really believe that if somebody told you something, that’s how you pass the message on. And then and then just like you said, you you eventually you’re looking for material, because you don’t have it or the wherewithal to evolve into creating it yet. But at the beginning, you know, take the words that that Michael says or Blair says, or Dean says, or whatever, and then say those in your words. And then the more the that you like you said, they became ingrained in your brain and then all of a sudden, you could have another epiphany and you went, Oh my God, I’ve been teaching for that long. That’s what this means. And then you get this point of enlightenment that happens that you now can take that a step further and pass on to other people because I’ve, I’ve seen you do that. I I remember when we were establishing the code of honor for a company that we work for you And I remember this just so clearly, I can see the table you were sitting at. And you always just kind of sat back. And you’d listen to all of the artists. And they were everybody was arguing their point. And then you would always raise your hand. And you would say, you know, I just had a chance to take what everybody was saying. And ruminate on that. And then you would come up with this. Everybody would go, Yeah, that’s exactly what we were talking about. So I think that you have to take in information, spin it around in your brain long enough so that you can make sense of it before that you make your own decisions on it before you move forward on it. Because,

Michael Cole 35:48
you know, boy, there’s a lot that you said, just now I just want to unpack two pieces that I remember meeting Jim Rowan, after I had, you know, was on my way, and confessing them that I told him my story and that you were the first and I want you to know, this is what I did with your tapes. And if you listen to me now, God willing, you you would you would find your handprint in me, but and he he laughed. So hard. He was so and he goes all good. He was happy for me, and I went, Oh my God. And so I’ll always remember that. And today, people come and say that to me, I’ve used your stuff. And I’ve been I give them a hug. And thank you, what’s the greatest compliment, you know, Randy Kunkel is you know that him and I are partners and kind of co founded this this community forever ago Summit. With my first contact with him, he kind of dropped to his knees confessed and begged me not to sue him. Because he had come to my seminars, learn some things, but noted that nobody would go home and do it. He did it. But he thought I’m gonna help see if I can get into a business of helping people to implement, whether it’s my content or something, and he just said, and I went, first of all, just stand up, you don’t need to stay on your knees. I couldn’t steal you.

Chris Baran 37:26
By the way, here’s my ring.

Michael Cole 37:29
No, I said good for you. I said, I don’t you know, I don’t see that as that you would follow people home and help them implement stuff they got from me, I I’m not an implementer. I’m a kind of speaker guy that sells, you know, paper tape and ink back in those days. And and as a result, he had the idea to, why don’t we dance together and see if a one plus one might, you know, and again, an accidental success. So the other thing that you said that just blew my mind was somewhere along the line. I, I, somebody taught me about listening. And that was, you know, you start talking it really hard. It’s like, how do you get your arms around that? And somebody said, you know, you’re getting better at listening, when first of all, you can just be present enough to let people say what they’re going to say, and not try to figure anything out, but not say anything. Until you you start thinking. I wonder if I could tell them back? What I thought I heard them say, in a way that once I said it, they would go Oh, my God. Not only did you say what I said, but you said what I said better. And what I said, and it helped me when you said that to me. So I just dealt with because I became the game. Yeah. And I and I also felt it wonderful to be able to have that kind of quality and that kind of ability. So I really became fascinated with, you know, the art of listening or whatever you want to call that.

Chris Baran 39:27
You’ve always been I think, like, oh, Sensei, like most people, where you have this incredible ability not only to do that, but to pull stuff out of people and do it in a kind way. I mean, I know teachers that are out there that they will murder you. And I’ve told this story before and I’m still a little embarrassed about it because I think that you teach like you’ve been taught to you adopt that style. And when I was first started doing my hair cutting thing, I went to a certain camp And they, it was very hierarchial. And they would talk down to you, you know, you couldn’t do anything, right, they had to blah, blah, blah. So that’s how I started teaching because I that’s the way it changed my life. I’m still eternally grateful to all for those people. But that style was what I adopted, because I didn’t know any better. And I, you know, they always say, how is that? You know, my mom always used to say, there’s so many more horses asses out there than horses, as and that was me, because that’s what I adopted. And I think there’s people that are still out there that will Oh, yeah, we’re gonna just, he’s a jerk, you know, but you have to learn how to teach and learn some of those things. And there’s an evolvement that happens into you. So, where did you like it? Where did you feel like how did your the evolution start for you? Was it because you talked about you had to learn to listen? What was that? Like? When you went along with it? Was there any? Was there any kind of pain that went along with that was, was when you adjusted your style?

Michael Cole 41:10
Yeah, I, you know, every now and then I would be profoundly touched and moved by somebody sharing and I would get kind of pulled into the contents of their life and get like, it’s almost like we get, we go down a rabbit hole. And then through continuing to be mentored to go, Okay, if you really love people, there’s, and you really want to help them. You’re there’s a difference between empathy and sympathy. And so, oh, tell me the difference and how to, so I was always, you know, as I learned to do this, that I, I acknowledge the need, there’s a turn, you know, detachment with love. I really care about you. But I love you too much to get absorbed in your, in your stuff. And if I can stay on the peripheries on the edge of, you know, I, I might be able to engage you not so much give you anything but engaging in a conversation, where you might have a perspective, or an insight about what you’re stuck on. You might think I’m the guy that poured the insight into you, but it really isn’t, we just engage in a very different conversation, there really wasn’t any judgment on it for me, I just and I’ll tell even today, I’ll just say, Look, we need to get over this, you that you I got a reputation that comes with the term, but the sooner we can table that, and work with each other and dance with each other. It looks like I’m mentoring you and okay, but really, if this works, we’re both going to be surprised by what happens to both of us. I hope that I can walk away from this conversation. And whatever it is, you learned it somebody said, what Michaels take a go, you know, somewhere in there, I saw something about me, you or us that I can take with me to keep learning. I’m like you, Chris, we’re, we’re obsessive compulsive learners. We just love Love, love, love, love to learn. Yeah.

Chris Baran 43:39
It was a holiday, say a stalker of you on Instagram. And you know how they always say that you learn something, you have to be ready for what it is. And you’re really famous for coming up with all these great sayings that you have. And I was scrolling through there the other day and I saw this one that came up and I’ve got it written down here and it said, and because it was a post that you did on on Insta and you said there are two kinds of pain. One that hurts you and the other that changes you for good. So for you what was the one that hurt you? And what was the one that changed you for good? Wow,

Michael Cole 44:29
that’s a that’s a that’s a big Those are big questions. The one that I’ll start with the ones that changed me for Good is the ones where it it’s a seeing that excruciatingly wonderful. Where I I see my part in the conflict. So let’s say the pain, okay, yeah, I took a hit from somebody and in that moment, I look like a victim. And you know, somewhere in my teaching, it’s Michael, you while you might have been victimized, don’t call yourself a victim, you survived it, you’re a survivor of being victimized, but don’t be a victim somewhere in my journey went, Ooh, that sounds like a healthier idea. So, you know, it looks like I was exploited. I was, you know, used whatever. And I have that, you know, we got to walk through what we got to walk through. But somewhere in there, I see my part. That, yes, you know, and even today, you all say I never, I’ve yet to find a one sided conflict. In a conflict, you got two people that, that have their parts, and I want to get as interested in seeing my part, as I am seeing the other person. And it really is more for my sake than theirs. Because sometimes these people kind of get on with their life, and I get on with mine. And the pain is that very, very painful from at least for me, because it’s, it’s humiliating, until it’s humbling that, you know, that that that awakening that says, Oh, wow, and a piece of this is the police in this where I was wrong. Or, you know, there’s a, I committed a wrongdoing. And, yes, I could come up with all kinds of justifications, but I was wrong. And to, you know, forgive myself, learn from what happened, and then kind of move on. And so that’s become kind of my modem of operandi, Chris, and, and I think a lot of this is just because of the, you know, the therapies that we go through in the mentoring that we go through. So we don’t get, you know, when we take hits, you either get bitter or better. And we always want to be better and getting better rather than staying bitter is seeing the whole truth, you know, that old saying, there’s one thing better than, that’s the whole truth. And the whole truth is, I had a part and you get through it, and conversations like this are helpful. But, you know, that’s as close as I think I can get to the answer to the question that you’re asking me.

Chris Baran 47:32
I think, you know, it’s really interesting how you, we keep saying things, and it keeps sparking stuff in my brain. Because I remember you doing a training and you even gave me tapes on it. And you said that there’s a difference, because I’m where I’m going with this is when you said that you might have done something wrong. You intentionally or not, but the pain that it caused others or yourself when they put it back on you that, you know, I find myself even what those things will haunt me for years. And there’s a difference. I think your words were, there’s a difference between obsession obsessing about something. And just living the emotion identifying the motion and moving on. And I think that’s what is such a hard part for so many people.

Michael Cole 48:29
Yeah, it is. And you know, somewhere in that conversation is forgiveness. And I learned the hard way, I can’t think myself into forgiveness. I can’t, I mean, I can talk myself into it and get to, you know, on the peripheries, but there’s something that happens to at least to me, where I saw something that I didn’t see before. And in that scene, it got handled, and there’s really nothing to forgive anymore. It it. It just kind of shifts and it’s really hard to talk about because it’s so it’s not secret, but it’s kind of sacred, we just, we see and then it’s, it’s okay. And it doesn’t mean I’m gonna go back to this person. And we’re gonna start over because a lot of times, one of my favorite sayings is, forgive the offender, forget the offense, but remember the lesson. And then there’s some lessons in that forgiveness process is, I think the lesson is, I’m going to allow that person to get on with their life as I get on with mine, but the lesson is that it’s just it’s no longer mine, to stay in the dance with this person. The other part of this is something somebody says, you know, there’s all these little slogans when I have a higher need to be right than I do to be what fill in the blank. You’re at peace happy, free. And that, that there’s something about, okay, what do I, what do I want to be here, I want to be free, I have that so, and you hang out with people like you. And before, you know, we’re beginning to live the slogan a little bit. It’s not, not like we’re jet eyes at it, but we don’t get stuck as much.

Chris Baran 50:23
Yeah, and that you just brought up a really big one. And I think this is really important that the people that are watching and listening, get to this point, we talk about stuff too, but we’re not perfect at it, you can still have those moments that are out there where emotion takes over and, you know, everything that you know, you can do and should do, you do not because in the heat of the moment, or whatever you you say do or think something that you really shouldn’t. And it’s not like we’re, you know, Jedi monks that do everything perfectly. It’s, we know what they are, we know what we should do. And and I think that’s the biggest thing is, I have to catch myself all the time, is that as soon as that emotion goes away, whether it’s in six seconds, or 60 minutes, I have to go back and say, I’m sorry, you know, I’m sorry, I really didn’t mean to do that. Because otherwise they find everybody else holds that burden. Because like I’ll, the lesson I got was from my next door neighbor, Lance, when we lived up island in Victoria, British Columbia. And he was his he, he had a cement business. And if Lance had something to say to you, he sent it to you and in no uncertain terms, but he would he would just say it. However it came out, and but he was instantly over it. But you carry that burden, you know, for God knows how long because you never responded back. And which probably wouldn’t have been the good thing to do. But nonetheless, I learned the lesson from that is that you’ve got to, you know, you have to go back to apologize after MLK if you tell me something in the heat of moment, but apologize. And that’s kind of what I took away from him. I’m still working at it.

Michael Cole 52:09
Yeah, it’s, it’s, again, I just love kind of engaging with you that that that that phrase, a higher need to be right, then we have to be, you know, that that that I somewhere in that process. I wasn’t while I had the need to be right underneath that I was terrified, absolutely terrified of being wrong. So the need to be right, because I didn’t want to be wrong. Because again, you know, the voice in the head is I’m afraid of what is going to happen to me. If I admit that I’m wrong, you know, you know, when we’re kids, it’s called punishment. And but when we’re adults, we it leaves me I’m, I’m hard on me, like, Oh my God, and then, you know, I draw myself into the ground. And somewhere in the growing it was, you know, I don’t have to make myself bad before I make something better. I don’t have to make myself wrong before I make something. Right. And that boy, that was new information that we could bypass whatever you want to call that, that blame that shame, and kind of get to oh, you’ve kind of cleaned it up, you learn from it, and you move on Wow, that boy, that’s a that’s a nicer way to play it. And then as I as I, you know, live that a little bit more, I can project that a little bit more on people around me when they when they screw up, especially when I’m implicated by the screw up. You know, I don’t have to make them bad before making something better we can cut to getting more interested in resolving conflict than winning arguments. Yeah. Bingo. Anyone go. pontificating?

Chris Baran 53:58
Yeah, I want to do a little I want to do a little switch here. And because everybody, even though it’s not exactly the same anymore, there, you know, I’m going back when we started being on the road, and, you know, went through the 80s and the 90s. And there was distributors, hundreds and hundreds of distributors and you could do the same bid every week. And be booked all the all year long. And and that’s not the case anymore. Sometimes we don’t even travel to as many big shows. As we do. It’s more and more smaller, more meaningful, in depth things that we do. But there’s I want to talk about just like, Bro I was called them road warriors stories I can remember. Like when you would go to like a huge multi manufacturer show. And you would do model call if you were doing one. And then after all the artists would go down to coffee shop, bar, whatever, sit around, and you’d always gather around and you’d always be telling laying, you know, the Road Warriors stories, you know, the things the weird quirky things that happen. I remember trying to remember the city. It could have been a if I’m not mistaken, I think it was Montgomery, Alabama. And they booked me in to do this show. And they had it in a what he called a sporting event in a cement floor is probably was a hockey arena and whatever else that they could put us to it. And they built this stage. And there was probably, if I was lucky, maybe 100 150 People at the show. And but they had Bear Pit seating, you know, where it’s kind of all stacked up and round or stadium seating. And then they had the stage, but there was no backstage you had to like, if you were if this is the front of the stage, I ran on from the side. And then they had two steps, you know, because it was that little risers they’d put onto the stage, they had the tables with the product, set them on with black pipe and drape, and then the black pipe and drape all the way around. sussed it out before you couldn’t get on from the back. So I had to go on from the front. So I didn’t want to be standing there when they introduced me. So I was way out in the area that you just walk into. And when you’re walking into the stadium, and they said Chris Baran, and I went, Okay, good. Here’s my plan. I’m gonna run all the way down, I’m gonna put one step on that riser. The next step on the stage, turn around and go Tada, here I am opening words. And that was my intent. I had no idea how far away from the stage that I was. From from I had to walk on I ran on the stage I ran up, I put my first step on my first foot on that riser. But it was like stepping on a skateboard because they hadn’t attached it to the stage. And so naturally, I went down, I wiped out the table, white belt, the side, the side, when he caught the pipe and drape. And a turn around. I just had to go. How’d you like me so far? I mean, those are the silly these kind of things that always happen when you were doing so many shows in a row in so many different cities. Any quirky Road Warrior stories that come to your brain?

Michael Cole 57:20
Yeah, one, I would call it the most embarrassing thing if there was a you know, What’s the most embarrassing thing that ever happened to you on stage? It was that it was actually at a redkin event where the artist, you know, the annual didn’t make probably was a rack? Forever. Yeah, you know, 20 years ago are in its infancy. And you know, you’re on and Sam’s on and Okay, so I’m on and I do a little thing. And then we take a little break. And maybe it was a lunch break. But we had to come back and then I had to finish the second part. And I got so absorbed in the talking during lunch. You Charlie Toby Kennedy said, Okay, when we play this music, that’s you, that’s you got to come out. So all of a sudden, I’m like talking and I’m going, Wow, what this music sounds familiar. And it’s like, Oh, my God, I kind of looked at my watch. And I’m supposed to be out there. So it’s one of those, you got to run. And I get out there. And the music is playing and I don’t know what to do. So people, somebody, somebody in the audience will go ahead and dance. So I you know, everybody was kind of clapping their hands. And so I started dancing, and I suck at dancing now, except when I’m all by myself, and there’s a mirror. And there’s nobody watching and I can kind of let myself go and just really, I started dancing that way. And then you’re you’re here a couple of people. Oh, well, it’s somewhere in the middle of that. Charlie being who Charlie is, like, stop the song in mid. And then all of a sudden, there’s no more music. And this horror came up when he stopped that music because I suck at dancing, and he wants to go back to work. As I oh my god. I mean, today that happened 20 years ago, and I can bring it back with emotional recall. I will never dance on the stage again. Like you know, even when they’re doing energy, you’ll see me

it was just one and I’m sure Charlie probably have forgotten about that. But people thought it was funny. And, you know, we let you get on and you know, but it was. It was It wasn’t a very embarrassing moment from the

Chris Baran 59:55
Yeah, it’s there’s weird stuff that goes on backstage. On stage, et cetera. Yeah. So listen, the, because we were talking about this, but you know, et cetera. And I want to bring this up right away that, that we’re gonna, we’ll bring this up on your Insta title up on here because you were telling me an interesting story about your Instagram. Was it your Instagram, your Facebook got hacked? Instagram got hacked. So what what happened?

Michael Cole 1:00:30
Well, you know as being speakers, and you hear a slogan, and the slogan isn’t my slogan. So I guess what I’m not going to do is copy it and plagiarize it. So part of my style has always been when I hear something like, Oh my God, that’s a beautiful, like, love to? How can I personalize that and make that me? So I will spin it, I’ll, from time to time do it. And that’s always been a part of my practice. And it’s work and I’d never felt unethical. Well, a hacker, actually, if somebody was fishing, I got a notification that looked like it was from Instagram saying, we’re going to shut your page down, you are plagiarizing this and you don’t hit your standard. And it was like out of the blue. It’s like, first of all, what? And I, you know, I immediately, you know, started doing this. And they said, you have two days to prove to us that you’re not plagiarizing. And if they you know, and I started going, okay, so what do I have to do to that this is ridiculous. And I’m hooked. I’m like, I’m down the rabbit hole? Well, you need to, first of all, you fill out this and give us something. And whatever it is, I gave them somewhere on that I went, I have a feeling that might be fished. But I gave too much. And a minute later. Oh, page went dark. And I you know, I mean, I spent months working with plate, pleading with Instagram, to bring it back. And according to Instagram, they can’t, there’s just no. And so I finally asked her, you know, you walk through whatever you walk through. And it’s like, and it took me I think I started posting on Instagram in 2013. And that happened last year. So it took a long, long, long, long time to get you know, and as a business educator, you you know, 45,000 That, that, that there’s a big deal for so there was like this digital asset that just would sink. And so I you know, you after a while you go let it go learn the lesson move on. And so I started rebooting the page. And you know, so anytime people are saying, like you said to me, what can we is there something we can help? Sure if people aren’t following me yet come and check my stuff out. And if you like what I give you hang out with me, I just and the golden thread, Chris is I don’t think I would have worked as hard as I’m working now on my page and creating content. So again, the universe has got, you know, her fingers in this somewhere? Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:03:19
Well, it’s like my teachers always said that when you when you the world, the universe gives you a problem. And when you solve the problem, it rewards you by giving you a bigger problem. And, and that’s kind of what happened here is you have to go further. And so there’s two points here that we wanted a number one, for all of you that are watching right now is you can take a picture of that QR code that’s up there, and that’ll take you to Michael site. And if you’re listening it I believe it is Michael Michael Cole underscore Summit. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. So just Michael Cole underscore summit if you’re listening, and please go to his sites. And really, we want to really build up is to where it was unsurpassed from before. Michael, I want to ask you this. So we’ve talked a lot about you. And we talked about your family how like and know that you’ve got some amazing family, but we can’t do everything that we do alone. So tell me a little bit about family for you and what that’s meant, and oh, thank

Michael Cole 1:04:32
you, Chris. two adult children. My son is I think 44 This year, my daughter is 42 My son is married with two children, the six year old and a three month old so you know we’re there and then my daughter Catherine, Peter, and my son Peter, and my daughter Katherine has three kids. Little girls ones 1513 and six. So and they, you know, if I throw a rock real hard, I can hit my daughter’s home and my son lives according to my wife 3000 steps in the northerly direction. So we’re very close. And they’re very, you know, we’re very family centered. Since COVID, I haven’t been out in the world, I haven’t been on an airplane. So the, the game is, I wonder how long I can not be on an airplane. It’s kind of served the world in the way that we’re doing that right now. So you know, stay tuned.

Chris Baran 1:05:40
It’s interesting, isn’t it? When we lived our life on the road? I mean, I know that you’re we’re busier than I was when I was on the road, 285 days a year on the average. And, and then all of a sudden, we just sat there and went, Well, I don’t want to get on a plane, what’s gonna happen to my mileage? What happens to my standing? And then after a while you just go? I don’t care? You know? Yeah.

Michael Cole 1:06:04
Well, the, the big aha for me was, I didn’t realize how much of my work was getting to and from, and that, you know, how much of the actual work getting, you know, a couple of hours, three hours in a room, maybe a couple of days in a row, but 90% of my exhaustion was, you know, airports overs, you know, hotels and, and so I just said, Okay, after 40 years, I don’t know that I want to do this, whatever it is, I’m going to do after COVID I don’t think it’s going to be this. And I’m still kind of in the process of I don’t know if I would call it figuring it out. The universe works things out better than I figured things out. So it just, you know, stay tuned. Yeah.

Chris Baran 1:06:50
I want to is it okay, if I asked you just kind of, like more of a personal question. Of course. Yeah. Good, because I was gonna ask it anyway. If if Michael Cole was your best friend. And, and this and that best friend knew Michael Cole better than anybody else? How would that person describe Michael Cole?

Michael Cole 1:07:23
I didn’t know where you gonna go with the question I thought he was he’s probably gonna say, What would this person say to Michael Cole? And let me just start with that. And that is you because you mentioned something about, you know, the voice in our head. Probably something to Michael Cole that says, You’re not the voice. Don’t be careful to how, how much you take what the voice is telling you at face value at face value. There’s a lot, there’s a lot that that voice is saying that really. It’s not true. And if it is, it’s not the whole truth. And basically what that what that person that really knows me is saying is you’re like everybody inside of you, there’s a fundamental core of goodness, that’s who you are. The voice is something that was just kind of morphed in the journey. And sometimes what the voice is saying is cool. And but there’s times where that voice can get toxic. And if there’s anybody in my life that I don’t want to be identified with, in those moments, it’s a voice. So my prayer now is, so long as I stay tethered to who I am, who I truly am, when I hear the voice, I know the voice is not me. You know, I am that which hears the voice and the love the voice and say, you know, whatever that death looks like, but boy, that’s it has saved my butt. So many times, especially as I’ve gotten older. There’s something about the elderly, we stand in the back of the boat. And of course, there’s a very long wait we look at, and there’s some things in the wake, but they’re not fun to look at. And that’s where the voice that voice that isn’t helpful. So pay attention to the voice.

Chris Baran 1:09:31
Yeah. I remember a good friend of both of ours and Mincy was to talk about because I’m, you know, I still suffer from a lot from that voice. And, you know, because sometimes it rears up I think they put names on it like imposter syndrome syndrome, you know, people are gonna find out they’re gonna find out that I really don’t know my shit, you know, and that I do make mistakes. But the reality is, I remember her telling me that, you know, she was telling the story worry about her going to for a an interview for for a radio talk show or something as such. And her little voice was she name’s Annie. It started to tell her that she couldn’t do it. And I remember her telling me the story how she literally had to take, she says Annie, she would take any, you know, metaphorically. And then she said, if she walked over and put any on a little chair and said, Annie, thank you, you need to, I want you to just stay there. Play whatever I’m making some of this up. This is not exactly what she said. But it’s the way it came up in my brain. She said stay there, because and has to go on and do a bigger business. And and I need to be in my frame of mind. So she would literally take that voice, put it away, give it its credit, but then walk away and say, That’s not me, I need to go do what I need to do. So I So identify with what you were talking about there. And this is these are kind of two questions that that I want to get to more questions that I want to. First of all, I wish that I could go on for about another two, three hours with you. The reality is I know that I don’t think maybe other people out there. Hopefully they’re enjoying it as much as I am. But I want to make sure that they’re wanting more at the end. But if I’ve got two questions that I want to leave you with, the first one is this. I find that like there’s, this kind of came up for me just as when I was watching our industry, and I remember doing this program talking about, about what our industry is like, and the people that are out there, and how so ingrained that they are into the business. And I saw some things that I didn’t like, not not bad things of them, but just way that that affected them. And then I just started Oh, I wish and I remember thinking that to myself, I wish that this would happen. So if you in our industry, not necessarily for you nothing that benefits, you and I but if you have one wish, that for our industry, in its totality, whatever that would be. And you could get that one wish come true for our industry.

Michael Cole 1:12:29
Would that be preferred? Once again, a profound question. Right now, as you know, there’s a lot of stuff going on in the industry. And there’s a lot of conversations and sometimes the conversations are, there’s duality in them, there’s this side, against that side. So and and they issue is emotionally charged. And I call it either or so you’re either for this. And if you’re for this, you’re against that. And if you’re for that, you’re better you got to be against this. So, you know, where do you stand? And I just My wish is that, and I I’m there and I know you are, but that we could see that inside of this. Let me see if I can get you up inside of this one. There we go. There we go. Inside of this range extreme, there’s a you can go to the top. And the arrows go to the top where we take the best of both issues, leaves the rest and end up with something exponentially greater. And we can call that a hybrid or whatever. And if somebody said give me an example okay. self employed, commission based, you know, and but boy, you depending on what side of that issue that’s right up there with, you know, pro choice, pro life, gun control, you know, the whatever the amendment is, and I just, I want so much for the industry that think outside of the box that somewhere in between this extreme, we don’t land in the middle, we land in something that’s higher and what’s so inspiring is then seeing it being done. Like I’m seeing it that’s what’s so refreshing about you know, I just there’s a ton of us that are boomers that own businesses, salon owners that in over the next few years, you’re going to see us kind of off ramping, but meanwhile there’s this just this influx of young entrepreneurial owners 2535 ish, and they just, they’re able to think outside of the box And when you when I watch what I think they’re creating an incubating, it’s like, oh my god, they’ve taken the best of both. And they’re creating a hybrid that, and you know, I’m either hallucinating about that or not. And time always reveals where the truth resides. So I really wished that, you know, we could be, I call it blow the sights off of our brain box and think a little bit more outside of the box in that way.

Chris Baran 1:15:28
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Last question. The this is something that that when we were applauding this podcast, we started we were thinking about, well, what, what really is it about and we call it first of all, we call it Christmas Seabees head cases, because sometimes to do what we do, you need to be a bit of a headcase that was there, but then all of the people that are on it are successful in their own right experts in their own right. And, and when I’ve, this isn’t my saying we’ve all heard of Goya than the acronym, it stands for goy A. And, and I did a little spin on that, because I’m trying to be somewhat PG online instead of saying the usual a word at the end. But you know, it’s to me that Goya word is Get off your or get off there at sets, right, you got to get out because you’ve got an asset that you’ve been holding on to sitting on doing whatever with. And there’s people that are out there right now that we’re always doing something or there’s things that we need to let go of, etc, that hold us back from being that true expert, successful person that we truly can be? What’s the one thing that the people listening or watching that you feel that they should do? Or let go of?

Michael Cole 1:17:03
Yeah, get another great question. You and I am speaking for myself, but I’m going to take a shot and speak for you too, because you and I are in the learning business. And we are learners and we swim in learning. I take learning for granted. I just I just forget. And but I but I also forget that many people don’t many people. Learning is scary. You know that that old saying anytime we’re doing something for the first time, we always forget that we’re not supposed to know what we’re doing. And we hate, you know, not know, and a learner is somewhere across that chasm, and doing things they don’t know what they’re doing until they know how I would say to any, whether it’s a young, you know, stylists, a salon owner, become a learner again, and don’t be frightened to learn and part of the learning to your point is unlearning. You know, you’ve had this idea that has worked for you for ever, and it really got you a whole bunch of mileage. But when we stop and pause, we look and go, you know that idea. It’s been some time since I was getting the return on that idea for the hard work. And it looks like there’s another idea that’s better than or is beyond it, but it means I have to stop working this idea and learn how to work this one. So you know, let go with this. And while I’m going to be a student again for a while, and, boy, there’s, that’s that’s a terrifying proposition for many people, and then, you know, boomers as we continue to whatever you want to call it, move into that last quarter of our life, that data scary proposition.

Chris Baran 1:19:09
Yeah. You know, as always, it’s truly profound that you know, when I do the try to do these visuals in my head, and as you were talking, I think the biggest thing that that I that I think we happens in our industry is whether it’s learning, whatever that is, if you think of the plane of what you’re going on with your learning, however you want to do it up, down across or just from left to right. I’m learning more as I go along. That we have to remember that sometimes what we’re learning and what we learned in our applying goes in one direction, but everything else evolves. And if you keep doing it for too long, that word you used was the chasm. And that one is can be if you catch it at the beginning it’s not that far apart, not far, not too hard to catch up on, but he wait too long. The chasm is so great that almost seems insurmountable and hard to get to. That’s why I think that you have to keep evolving. As you get it, every piece of anything that you learned, is going to evolve, the things that we learned that work in teaching in the 60s no longer worked in the 80s. And the things we learned in the 80s no longer work in the 2000s. We have to evolve them. Everybody’s given all the kids a hard time out there right now saying that, Oh, the new generation, it’s out there, they need to learn what they didn’t need to learn, we need to adapt. We’ve got to adapt to what they are, so we can evolve together.

Michael Cole 1:20:33
I think, you know, I look at somebody like you, I look at some of our colleagues, you know, the SAM vias of the world, and how do we continue we’re still in a game that a lot of people in our that had been part of us are no longer in that game. And you go, what’s going on? I think we’re, we’re being young down. We’re and you go, okay, so where’s the secret sauce? And to the degree that we learn, we young down rather than grow old? And, and, you know, how do you continue to, you know, reinvent, reimagine, recreate yourself in your work? It’s the answer in one word, or less is learning. learn one word.

Chris Baran 1:21:24
Michael. What I always think is so admirable is when you know somebody and you call them friend, and you haven’t had a chance to talk to them and sometimes a year but yet you pick up exactly where you left off, and the energy and the vibe and the feeling was there and listen, I just want to say you’ve been a teacher to me you’ve been a mentor. You’ve been an inspiration for me but I what I hold most dear is the fact that I can call you my friend so I just want to say thank you so much for sharing and being vulnerable to our audience so that they know that whatever it is that we got that they can have to so I just want to say like God bless I just love you for this I think

Michael Cole 1:22:07
love you to my friend. It’s always a sacred to be with you because we we bring out you know whether you want to call it the good but God and each other, and we leave more than we had when we an hour ago or however long so thank you. The feeling is mutual. Thanks. Thanks so much.

Chris Baran 1:22:26
Thank you so much. I’m gonna just everybody that’s out there watching listening again. Good luck, God bless, we love you all. Cheers.